Parents That lady you hate on Twitter

[GYM0M]

Ooooo, I love numbers so I’ll play. I’m not a proponent for super high hours, but I do have some issues with this study. First and foremost, it was outdated long before it was ever published. Data set runs from 1985-2005, but wasn’t published until 2015. Secondly, the levels are not clearly established. At what levels do the hours change. Obviously, the higher the hours, the higher the level, for the most part, but there could be overlaps that skew the data. It also doesn’t mention the number of gymnasts in the dataset. I played with some of the numbers. For hours to be the ‘cause’ of the increase in injury, you would expect to see a degree of linearity between the two. When I plotted the trend line, I got 88%, which is not awful, but it often means it’s a chapter, but not the whole story. I made some general assumptions about the groupings, level 1-3, 4-7, 8-9, 10-elite. Starting at elite & level 10, I also doubled the # of gymnasts in those levels down to level 3, then halved level 2 & level 1. I came up with for every 2 gymnasts in level 10-elite, there are 10 girls in levels 8-9, 180 girls in levels 4-7, and 336 girls in levels 1-3. When those numbers are plotted for a trend line, the degree of linearity is 99.97%. This tells me that the number of injuries per 1000 hours is probably more closely related to the number of gymnasts in those levels as opposed to the number of hours they train.

 

[LJL07]

Ooooo, I love numbers so I’ll play. I’m not a proponent for super high hours, but I do have some issues with this study. First and foremost, it was outdated long before it was ever published. Data set runs from 1985-2005, but wasn’t published until 2015. Secondly, the levels are not clearly established. At what levels do the hours change. Obviously, the higher the hours, the higher the level, for the most part, but there could be overlaps that skew the data. It also doesn’t mention the number of gymnasts in the dataset. I played with some of the numbers. For hours to be the ‘cause’ of the increase in injury, you would expect to see a degree of linearity between the two. When I plotted the trend line, I got 88%, which is not awful, but it often means it’s a chapter, but not the whole story. I made some general assumptions about the groupings, level 1-3, 4-7, 8-9, 10-elite. Starting at elite & level 10, I also doubled the # of gymnasts in those levels down to level 3, then halved level 2 & level 1. I came up with for every 2 gymnasts in level 10-elite, there are 10 girls in levels 8-9, 180 girls in levels 4-7, and 336 girls in levels 1-3. When those numbers are plotted for a trend line, the degree of linearity is 99.97%. This tells me that the number of injuries per 1000 hours is probably more closely related to the number of gymnasts in those levels as opposed to the number of hours they train.

This is really cool that you did this. The other issue with this study is hasn't the level of difficulty in skills increased a good bit for level 10s and elites since 2005?? I think there are a whole bunch of variables that would play in to injury rate.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I'm not sure that is the study she meant? Wasn't the original claim that practices over 3.5 hours at a time led to a astronomical increase in injuries? This study seems to focus on increase in total hours, but I didn't see anywhere where it talked about the length of each practice? I might have missed it though.

I know I've been taken to task for saying this before, but my daughter is at a gym that, perhaps for logistical reasons more than anything, has fewer but longer practices as compared to similar gyms and we love it. She has been at 20 hours a week for 2 years now, but she goes for 4 5 hour days. Anything I say about it would be purely anecdotal of course, but I have only positive things to say about the schedule. Honestly, my daughter said she would probably quit if she had to go to a 6 days a week or 30 hours/week schedule. She also didn't start off as a 6 year old training those hours. She went from 6 to 9 to 12 to ~14 (all over 3 days) to 16 to 20 (over 4 days).

At our gym, which has a college focus and does not train elite, but does send most of the level 10s to D1 schools, 24 hours is really the max they train. My daughter who is level 9 and will start training for level 10 after post season (but could repeat 9 depending on a lot of things) will most likely stay at 20 hours for the foreseeable future. She goes to regular middle school with no accommodations and has weekends and Wednesdays free to catch up on schoolwork and have social time with friends (and spend a lot of time on tik tok and youtube lol) I think it is plenty and more sustainable than many schedules I see. And somehow they are still able to produce college level gymnasts. This year alone we have 3 graduating level 10s that are all going to D1 schools in the fall. Of course elite is a whole other thing and I would expect it to require more hours. But I still think that 30+ hours as a 8/9/10 year old is unnecessary in my opinions.

 

[Flopsygymnast]

My sis is level 9 training 10 and does 22 hours a week over 5 days. She is doing Hopes next yr and not increasing her hours. Next sis is level 6 and does 14 hrs over 4 days. No need for more!

 

[GYM0M]

@mom2newgymnast Logistics plays a huge role. Yes, my dd trains 30+ hours per week, now at the elite level, but has had a similar schedule since she was 10-11. Her practices are never over 3.5 hours at one time though. Mostly, this is because we literally have 3 team coaches for all levels and most of the rec classes as well. Now, during shutdown, she made much more progress with 15-20 hours, but it was essentially 15-20 hours a week of privates, lol.
My personal opinion is that it’s a combination of personal factors that determine the number of hours that works best for gymmies and their families, and their decisions aren’t my business so if a family feels that their 6 year old needs to be at gym 15-20 hours a week, ok, and I wish them and their gymmie the best. And I’d feel the same about a high level gymnast on low hours. Whatever works.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

I'm not sure that is the study she meant? Wasn't the original claim that practices over 3.5 hours at a time led to a astronomical increase in injuries? This study seems to focus on increase in total hours, but I didn't see anywhere where it talked about the length of each practice? I might have missed it though.

I knowww. I spent some time searching, but couldn't find it. It specifically listed injuries in the first hour vs second vs third, etc.