Parents A rant and a vent!

[NGL780309]

I have already emailed DD's coach in a very polite manner to let her know how my child felt and I need a place to vent how I really feel and what I really wanted to say.

DD is a 5yo L4. They recently began working a few L5 skills into their rotations. One of those skills is a dive roll. The coach sets ups a little octagon shape and a mat and they dive over it. DD loves these and they have been doing them for about 2 or 3 weeks. Their practice is now back in the evenings when the gym is crazy full and I guess there were no octagon shapes available for use so she set up a dive roll station with this other mat/shape thing that is shaped like the letter U, but set up where the curved part is on the top. I don't know what it's called. She realized that it was tall and then put a spring board in front of that for them to punch off of. The mom I was sitting next too gasped at one point because her DD crashed on her head trying to dive over this. Then I watched several other girls struggle with the timing of when to tuck and land badly. Basically it wasn't going well.

As DD was approaching this station I started worrying about her. She's so short and way shorter than anyone else. I was tempted to break all rules and walk out there and ask her to please not let my DD kill herself on this. DD runs for her first attempt and stops. I'm thinking that's a good thing. She's aware this is a different set up and she's stopping because she's uncomfortable. Her 2nd attempt she dives over and lands on her head. Her legs didn't make it over. She goes for another attempt and lands on her head again. I'm in mother bear mode and ready to march down there and tell her to stop. Thankfully the coach noticed and told her to stop. It was obvious to everyone watching that she was too little to do a dive roll over this. Very scary to watch.

After floor she comes to me and asks to go home. My DD has never ever asked to leave practice. I tried to ask her why, but she wouldn't tell me. I sent her on to vault. She was clearly not trying on vault. After vault I walked downstairs and said to her coach that I was going to take her home if she wasn't trying or was upset about something. The coach responded that DD was upset because she had gotten in trouble on floor. I asked for what and she said because she was playing around on her dive rolls and landing on her head. I went back upstairs and was really mad. It was so clear that the problem was the set up and not my child. She was not being silly or playing around. She does do that from time to time and I'm the first to call her out and this was not the case.
On the way home from practice DD was crying hysterically. I knew her feelings were hurt because her coach got onto her for something that wasn't the case. I asked her to tell me why she was so upset and she told me just like I thought that she couldn't do it and she really was trying. She told me the octagon is little and it rolls if your body touches it. The other U shape doesn't roll and she couldn't get over it and tuck to roll out and the coach thought she was doing bad on purpose. I was really angry. I was watching the whole scenario as were other parents. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
I consoled DD and let her know that I know she wasn't playing around. She told me she's not going back because she's afraid to do something wrong and be in trouble. What a great thing to teach a 5 year old. You can't make a mistake or you're in trouble. I did stress to my DD that she needs to know that if she's uncomfortable with doing something she has to go and ask for help or wait until the coach is there to help her. I forgot to add that DD had to do push-ups while everyone else played in the pit at the end of practice. She told me she didn't really care about that. It's not like she has never had conditioning for goofing off and she has never cried about it before.
I wrote a polite email letting her know that DD was very uncomfortable doing dive rolls over this way and felt she was really trying. She didn't need punishment, she needed instruction! Could the coach please assist her next time and that I've instructed DD to ask for help if she needs it. I'm sure she'll think I'm this crazy parent thinking my child is faultless, which is not the case. My DD has never cried at gym and she was really crushed. This coach simply forgets sometimes that DD is a good head shorter than the next tallest girl, she comes up to mid chest on most of them and she's waist high to the two 11 year olds. There was a situation before where they were doing round-offs over this same U shape mat and if you touched it you had to do pushups. DD dutifully did her push-ups every time, but there was no way on earth she could do a round-off over that. I didn't complain because she wasn't hurt by doing push-ups and she wasn't in any danger, but use your brain. You can't always set up the same equipement for a 39 inch tall 5 year old and 5 foot tall 11 year old.

I have never complained about anything and try to let DD handle things. She's never been upset though. She is just crushed. It sounds so silly, but these are very real feelings for her. I can remember being 5yo and getting in trouble at school because the teacher thought I left out all the stuff at the art center when really I just walked away to get help opening the glue. I was so ashamed and crushed. Obviously enough that I remember those feelings clearly 25 years later.

I have yet to get a response for my email, but I'll let you know when I do.

 

[Mariainlv]

Ugh poor kid! I hope the coach responds appropriately. FWIW I think you did the right thing.

 

[bogwoppit]

Poor little thing, I would've done the same thing. That was dangerous and the coach should've watched each kid take a turn before going onto some other station.

THis shappened to my oldest when she was four in a ski class. SHe was by far the youngest and smallest and the ski instructor sent her on a chair lift with a 7 year old. The lift attendant didn't help he on and she was too little to jump up onto the chairlift. It whacked her in the back and flattened her, the other kid fell off, she was flat on her face in the snow. I certainly let the instructor and the ski school know that they cannot run a programme for little kids and not take care of them properly.

GLad your little on eis fine, hopefully it will not bother her next time she goes to the gym.

 

[mariposa]

I totally understand your frustration and your daughters. No one likes to get in trouble when they weren't doing anything wrong. And some kids really, really don't like it. My DD is like that.

She actually came home sad last week because she said that she got in trouble and she shouldn't have and was very hurt by the whole thing, she was crying for at least 30 minutes and was adamant that she did nothing wrong and shouldn't have gotten in trouble. In our situation, it was different because I wasn't there and didn't see what happened, so I told her that as long as she knew she really wasn't playing around, that she needed to let it go and move past it. Apparently, she asked coach what they were doing because she hadn't been doing a certain skill and coach sent her to the end of the line. She was devastated because she said she was paying attention and not playing around and that coach later pulled everyone over and told them what they were to do. She said she didn't want to do the wrong skill and get hurt or in trouble. I told her coaches make mistakes and maybe she thought she had told them what to do, but she hadn't. She said that she didn't want me to talk to the coach, she just needed to talk it out. It was an isolated incident, so I let it go.

In your situation, I would be fuming because you saw it happening and you know that your daughter wasn't playing around AND that it sounds like the drill wasn't appropriate for her. I hope they respond to your email and address the situation.

Hopefully she will realize that YOU know (and that she knows) that she didn't do anything wrong and that it is on the coach. Hard situation to deal with as a parent. Ideally, the coach would talk to her and apologize, but not sure that will happen. Good luck.

 

[Blackie6]

YIKES! I had one of those momments when DD was about 6 and going down a cheese mat full speed doing ROBHS wrong with no intervention or spot...I almost leaped over the half wall and grabbed ***'t coach by throat. I was upset that he was allowing her to go without a spot when obviously she couldn't do one correctly yet, not showing her thr right way to do it, and making sure her and other teamates were safe. I would be upset too if then she got in trouble! I think you did right thing by e-mailing your concerns and as long as you were polite I doubt they will think your nuts!

I am surprised she is only 5 yr old and they are doing this skill already. I hate it, I call it the neck breaker and can't stand to watch my own DD do it and she is 9, so I can only imagine how upset you were even though it was over the mat...still scarey especially done on unfamiliar shape and with tramp.

 

[NOG]

I agree with all the other posters here, you did the right thing. I hope that you also made a comment in your email about the fact that the coach needs to take into consideration 1. your dd's age, and 2. her height most importantly. She should not be punished merely b/c she is a talented 5yo in with kids much taller and older than she. They cannot expect her to hold to the same standards as someone double her size and punish her for trying. That will only teach her not to try. BTW, I think the dive roll is way to advanced for someone her age also. While it sounds so simple, it can be technically difficult and should be treated with respect. Were they tumbling over thus U shape onto an 8" or plain floor? I'm hoping that they at least had them landing on an 8" mat.

 

[Linsul]

Wow I have 5yr olds on pre team and they're still learning how to straight jump over stuff and punch with straight legs! I wouldn't put anything over 10 inches in front of them landing on their feet, much less their hands! A mat big enough for girls twice her age sounds ridiculous. Making a dive roll a huge challenge sounds ridiculous at that age and level. Tell your DD to be proud of her self preservation instincts! Here's hoping the email went over well, and that there was an 8 incher beyond the U shape of doom!

 

[emacmommy]

Sorry she had to go through that frustrating situation. I'm glad it didn't physically hurt her.

That U shape of doom didn't happen to look like a mailbox did it? Ya, those don't roll all. Not good for rolling drills. Especially for young gymmies. The coach should have modified for her and had an alternative for those having difficulty.

Hope she can find the fun again. Gymnastics is challenging, but if she can learn that even the hard stuff has rewards and fullfullment, she will go far. Some children have a hard time working through the hard stuff. It's a tough lesson to learn.

 

[gymmomof1]

I hate that skill and always cringed when my DD was doing it-- If the coach was watching he/she should have seen the rest of the girls struggling with the skill. I would have done the same thing and let the coach know that this time it was the way things were set up that was the problem, not the girls fooling around so that next time the station can be set up with different objects if the usual one is not available. Hope next practice is better

 

[10.0]

That stinks that that happened. The coach had probably used this with older/bigger girls and didn't think it through that littler ones could not make it. I'm glad he/she at least finally caught on before someone broke their neck. We always man the dive roll station, it can be dangerous in the best circumstances. Then we have a safer independant station like handstands up against a wall. You are also taught throught he USAG safety course and common sence that you should place yourself in a position that allows you to see all the stations. Keep us informed about what the owner has to say, and keep watching her practice and keep an eye out for any more stupidity and next time if you see it don't feel like an intruding parent, go grab the owner and tell them. What can they possible be mad at you about for bringing a safety problem to their attention, they actually would probably rather you do as it would be their butt getting sued if a kid gets hurt. Plus even if they are upset, rather that than your child being in a wheelchair or worse.

 

[NGL780309]

Ugh! What a mess. I don't know what to think about the reply I received. It was very defensive (I expected that), but it made my main concern about her safety known. Hurt feelings will heal, broken necks won't.

Basically she told me that she didn't realize the girls were struggling and thank you for pointing it out. She will encourage DD to ask for help. The reason she thought DD was playing around was because she was playing around the entire floor rotation. And all of this misbehavior previously was what she was in trouble for. She listed all of the things DD had done.

This point of the email is where I'm getting really angry. I was there!!!! I was watching the entire floor rotation. She says she was "constantly" having to get on to DD for not being on task, tumbling while waiting for her turn, kicking others several times and putting the other girls in DANGER! I'm livid reading this. Here's what I saw and heard. Yes we are close enough that you can hear what she's saying to them.

DD DID kick another girl while doing a back pike roll. I saw it happen and heard the coach get on to BOTH girls. She got on the other girl for starting too far back for her station and told DD to look behind her before going. That's hardly kicking someone several times and putting them in danger. It wasn't done on purpose and DD wasn't playing around. She was facing backwards to do her roll and didn't see the other girl was that close to her. It happen once.

DD was spoken to one time about not rotating to her next station and she told the coach that the girl before her hadn't rotated. That's hardly having to be constantly reminded to be on task. She knew where she was going but the other girl was still there. She was waiting politely. She's not going to push the other kid out of the way, so yes she was standing between the two stations waiting.

When they rotated to do their routine one sits in her splits while the other goes. DD got on the floor first and the coach asked her wasn't the other girl supposed to go first. She shrugged her shoulders. The coach looked at the other girl who also shrugged her shoulders. Neither one knew who was going first and she got on to the them. She said whoever did back pike rolls first was first. The older girl replied that they had both done them on the floor at the same time.

All of these incidents are pretty much a normal practice. That's not out of the ordinary for her and every other girl on the team to be reminded or gotten on to. For this coach to email me back and spin these tall tales like she spent the entire practice in trouble is so outrageous. I know she was mad I spoke up in the first place, but come on.

I never once saw DD tumble while waiting for a turn because they really weren't ever waiting around. I'm willing to admit maybe she did it and I didn't see it. Maybe I blinked. I did see the coach stop the whole group and call out 5 girls to stop and do push-ups for goofing off. DD was not one of them. If she was so off task and having to be constantly reminded she wasn't included in this punishment.

I have to say, my child isn't perfect. She goofs off sometimes at gym, but she doesn't do it any more than anyone else. Somedays I get irritated with DD for playing around. It's usually while waiting. I've even told the coach to be harder on her. They have both told me what a great job she does. She's wonderful blah, blah, blah. She'll sometimes skip a station and usually the coach doesn't even notice. I'm the one after practice pointing it out. I blame DD, but then again she's only 5 years old. They'll set up 10 stations on bars and many of them are conditioning stations. I don't think she's not paying attention, she just gets confused. The older girls do too. She's not even in kindergarten yet. 10 is a lot for her to remember.

I'm glad the rest of you agree that dive rolls are dangerous. I really thought maybe I was being over dramatic about this skill. It scares me even when she's doing it right. There was a mat thank goodness. They haven't done them without yet. I don't know what the U shaped mat is called. The girls sometimes will sit in it and rock like a see-saw. It has another half that makes it like a big doughnut.

In reply to her email I told her straight out that I didn't see or hear what she was talking about. If had seen this behavior you better believe I would be down there yanking my kid off the floor. I told her if she has to ask my DD more than once to do something I fully expect her to send her to me.

 

[Linsul]

I totally get why you'd be mad reading that email, and since it's made you upset I would advise speaking to the coach in person from here on out. Speaking for myself I know I'm 'braver' on the internet, and prone to rash 'send' smashing. Continuing in person now is more likely to get a good resolution I think.

When it comes to mixed age groups, the younger ones can stick out for talking, not listening, and tumbling when they shouldn't. That's all normal, they're 5. They're learning to be kids still, not just gymnasts! The coach sounds like she's experiencing difficulty resolving the developmental differences in her age group. The way she put it to you makes it seem like you have some miscreant child, which was rude. You didn't choose the acceptable age range for the class, the gym did. She needs to make it work.

I have some 5yr olds on my pre team. There are some skills they just aren't allowed to do yet, it's explained to them why, and that they aren't in trouble or 'bad' gymnasts. If you tell the coach you don't have an issue with skill substitution for your DD, she may take you up on it. Sometimes we coaches get hung up on everybody trying a skill when not everyone should for the sake of 'sameness' and not looking like we're playing favorites. Also I would ask that at stations where height of equipment isn't a factor, to pair DD up with an older girl. Mixing up the partner scene is a great way to keep a kids attention and help them pick up more mature (hopefully!) safety habits. Also, just to make friends!

As it pertains to safety, small children are more likely to cartwheel 3 inches away from a classmate just because they don't think it through to conclusion. Making a mistake, the other kid moving, etc isn't something that occurs to them all the time. With repetition and consequences if necessary they will learn over time though. As a parent I would ask her to recognize that this is being 5...not DD trying to raise hades and hurt people at every chance. Offering your understanding for sitting out or whatever consequence there is, is about all you can do. Holding 5 year old behavior against a 5 year old is out of the question though! So is not putting thought into stations for a little one. Substitute the station, spot it, have her skip it, but condemnation for her size and ability relative to an 11 yr olds...no.

 

[NGL780309]

Some great points Linsul. I have to say though in general that DD doesn't have any problems that are really directly related to her age in my mind and viewpoint. The other kids get in trouble for the same things. I hesitate to even say "getting in trouble" because really they are just normal kid things. Getting in trouble to me is the coach asking you to do something and you talk back or you continue the behavior. We don't have any girls on our team that do that. They talk in line or rotate to the wrong stations or goof off. It's all of them. I have never seen the coach ask DD to stop doing something and she continued. I sit at just about every single practice. I feel she's young and she wants me there so for the time being I'm going to do it. The gym is small enough and we are open enough that you can see and hear everything. That was what made me so mad about her email. I was at practice and I could see and hear. And I forgot to say in my last post that she contridicted herself. She told me herself at that practice that she was in trouble for goofing off while doing dive rolls. When I let her know that the station was set up in a way that was difficult and confusing to DD then she came back and said that wasn't the problem at all. It was all these other issues. Rather than just admitting that she misread the situation she changed the story. I'm a teacher and I've made mistakes before. I've punished a child for doing something that looked one way and when further explained I realized I was wrong. It's no great tragedy to admit that and say thanks for clarifying. The parents appreciate your honesty and you earn their respect.

In my mind I've made my feelings clear. My number one concern is that DD is safe. I think she got that part of the message.

 

[emacmommy]

Do you mind me asking what the class size to instructor ratio is?

 

[NGL780309]

12 girls to 1 coach. Sometimes her mom will help. They sort of switch off. We get one or the other and sometimes we might have both.

DD went to gym the past 2 days and the coach didn't say a word to me. Normally she talks to all of us after practice in the lobby. I'm pretty sure she's avoiding me because she wouldn't even come out. She never replied to my 2nd email.

I know this is not the best thing to do, but I had a discussion with the 2 parents who were watching that night about what she said. They wanted to know if I had talked to her. I asked them to be 100% honest with me in case I'm that mom who is just blind and delusional. They were both had pretty much the same observations I did. DD was spoken to a few times about little things, as was everyone else. It was a pretty normal practice where she had to manage small behaviors. That is her job afterall. The one women's DD was one of the girls who had to do push-ups for goofing off. That group was asked once to stop and then given a punishment when they didn't. That is typically the coaches system. I completely support that. If my DD was really so awful and she was constantly having to get on her, she was never asked to run or condition. Why? Because she wasn't doing anything! When asked to change a behavior she did. If she had persisted she would have been running or doing push-ups.


I've decided to drop the issue because a) DD isn't upset anymore b) my main concern about safety was heard and addressed . They did not use that set-up for dive rolls the past 2 nights. I feel she truly was just defensive about being questioned. She's young and it's her first year coaching and she made a mistake. I let her know that she's doing a wonderful job and I support her, but I needed to speak up.

I've been watching DD like a hawk and she still does her normal things. She giggles in line while waiting her turn, she goofs off a bit with everyone else etc. To me those are normal behaviors for a group of girls. They aren't soldiers or prisoners and they aren't training for the olympics. She's there to have fun and she does. She also works very hard. I don't think you can expect more from a 5 year old.