Parents Advice needed - explore other gyms or stick with this one?

[sevenatenine2]

My daughter was full time coached by a 15-16 year old Level 10 gymnast when she was an old Level 3. She was under the watchful eye of the head coaches but my daughter loved her and she did a great job!

 

[CTGymMom]

It amazes me that gyms would kick a kid out for looking at other options. I don't even want to know how they would find out. Does stuff like this happen in all sports? Maybe I am just naive or unprepared for the drama in this sport. I certainly don't want my daughter to be punished simply because I am asking questions.

I appreciate all the advice as well as the helpful warnings! I had no idea what we were getting into. I will wait to look as moving is not an option right now anyway and I don't want to ruin things for her there. I do plan to question the safety training of junior coaches though after all the feedback on here, as safey does need to come first.

 

[flippin out]

It amazes me that gyms would kick a kid out for looking at other options. I don't even want to know how they would find out. Does stuff like this happen in all sports? Maybe I am just naive or unprepared for the drama in this sport. I certainly don't want my daughter to be punished simply because I am asking questions.
.

1) some gyms give "courtesy calls" to your current gym. They have a business relationship with each other and that comes before customer does

2) a parent at the gym you visit knows who you/your kid is and what gym they attend...they call a friend at your gym.....word is out and coaches hear

3) a kid at the gym you visit knows kids (or goes to school with) kids at your gym.....word is out

4) you tell a trusted friend at your gym that you wish to look around and see what other gyms offer....
A]. they tell someone else, and so it goes.
B]. OR trusted friend freaks out (because if you leave that effects their kid, as in they will be upset, and so they freak out and call coach for reassurance for themselves...,
C]. or maybe they are just backstabbers, who knows.

There are many different ways it happens. Most of the time it's not done to sabotage your relationship at your gym...that is just the aftermath.

 

[refugee]

A couple thoughts/observations here...

You have grasped a few key concepts from the situation that are important for your daughter's development, enjoyment and success in the sport. Keep vigilant in this respect, because it's important, but be mindful of becoming "that" parent in the gym. As your girl moves up in the sport, expect coaching needs and coaches to change. Sometimes the change is planned and expected (i.e. structure in gym) other times you initiate it. A coach who works well for one girl (of similar age and ability) might not work at all for your daughter. Of course, when the entire team struggles...

On the topic of a 13 yr old "coaching"...
My daughter's first rec instructor was a teen (though older than 13). She did a great job making the sport fun (and now, here I am, 10+ yrs later). That, however, was all basic skills (jumping around, safe falls, forward roll, etc.) In a team context, leading warmup, basic drills, fine. But IMO, no 13 yo should be responsible/involved with skills requiring spotting. Also, FWIW, USA Gym won't grant a Jr Pro membership until age 16, so this "Jr Coach" cannot coach on the floor of a meet--important when an athlete comes to depend on the coach.

I echo flippin out's comments on how some gyms are strong in Optionals but not Compulsory, and vice versa. With MMS and MSO, you can research (to some extent) if a gym's optionals are transplants or home-grown.

As for gym owner/coaches...I don't want to turn your thread into a rant, but my observation has been that gym owners are often not the most skilled when it comes to running a business. I have met a number of gym owners who have no experience outside the sport of gymnastics... they are former gymnasts (up to the Olympic level) who build a gym around their name recognition or other past success. Some do well. Others struggle. The arrogance level gets high at times, and this leads to gymgal's warning about being shown the door. And the community is small...flippin out's scenarios on how your gym finds out about your visits are all real (we have direct/indirect experience with all 4)

ALL THAT SAID...if you are seriously thinking about moving, and your season is over, start your work now. It is impossible to know how long your daughter will last in this sport. Teach your daughter that change is OK. She won't want to leave friends in her current gym, but friendships endure and she will make new friends in her next gym. The earlier she learns this, the easier she will adapt to the curve balls thrown at her. If she has a passion for this sport, the worst thing you can do is just sit there where the situation is unsafe or discourages her (or you). It is a very rapid downhill slide once it starts.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks for the responses! We have monthly meetings with the head coach/owner - she is not a coach for the compulsory levels, only the optionals. So none of the level 3 coaches are there and only one coach communicates with us and gives us feedback (so we only get feedback on bars and vault as that is what she coaches). I think I will visit the other gyms, watch a practice and see what they are like, talk to the coaches, etc. I don't know if the optional girls moved up from our compulsory program or transplanted in. We have 1 girl who is training at the elite level. We have a brand new facility and I am wondering if the owner is trying to cut corners/save some money (there has been talk of that) because she got in over her head with the new facility and using lower level coaches to save some. Could also explain why all 18 girls moved up. If I move her to a different gym now, she can't compete this year and she is really looking forward to it, but the safety concerns me.......

Does anyone know if other gyms use junior coaches with team kids?

not 13 year olds...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

They shouldn't be spotting if they're not safety certified. But what in the world needs to be spotted on beam at this level? Progressions are off if girls are getting hurt being spotted on beam.

hold on...i was spotting, and high level stuff, long before there was safety cert. there are many coaches in the country coaching and spotting who are not safety certified. they are great coaches...they just don't go to meets.

 

[gymdog]

hold on...i was spotting, and high level stuff, long before there was safety cert. there are many coaches in the country coaching and spotting who are not safety certified. they are great coaches...they just don't go to meets.

Well nowadays that is an insurance and liability issue because the safety certification program exists. Even programs that aren't under USAG (for example college club teams or high school gymnastics) generally require someone to be safety certified through USAG in order to mitigate risk. I'm not saying the actual program does much in terms of your spotting ability, HOWEVER for the gym to allow that (and it's clearly an issue in this case) makes me wonder how well they stick to risk mitigation protocols in general.

Also, you can have a level of membership that doesn't entitle you to go to meets but does allow you to get safety certified. Pretty much every gym in my state requires any instructors to be safety certified, I have never worked at a gym or even supervised any other gymnastics activity (outside of USAG) without this being a requirement. I'm sure this varies regionally but I can definitely assure you in some regions there aren't "many" great coaches who aren't safety certified. To me that would be a major red flag.

Anyway you can get safety certified as an instructor at 14, so all these Jr instructors might not even be too young.

 

[juststartingout]

I pulled my daughter from her previous gym due to young inexperienced coaches who were not properly trained. We had half the team in ankle braces (6-10yo girls) and then they replaced our experienced vault coach with a young teenager who had never even been a gymnast. Our girls were working on handspring vaults over the table and it was scary. At her new gym all coaches are trained to properly coach, even the younger ones.

 

[gymgal]

It amazes me that gyms would kick a kid out for looking at other options. I don't even want to know how they would find out. Does stuff like this happen in all sports? Maybe I am just naive or unprepared for the drama in this sport. I certainly don't want my daughter to be punished simply because I am asking questions.

Everything Flippin said is true. Also, while much less likely, someone could figure it out here on CB. You would be surprised how many parents and coaches are here that might know you or your gym or your coaches. You haven't given a lot of info but for someone in your area, it may be enough to know who you are, or at least what gym you are talking about. There have been others who have been outed on here by their gym after bad-mouthing the coaches and the owners.

It is a tough situation for a parent to be in. You need to find the best option for your gymnast but when you try, you are labeled a traitor or a troublemaker. You are correct, it is best to wait until your dd's season is over. If you know you are going to be pulling her out, you can give your notice at that point and then look around but be prepared for them to tell you to leave right away. Many owners won't do this but some will. At that point, you'll just have to deal with having your dd out of gym for a couple weeks until you find a gym that fits her better. You could also enlist a friend or family member to help you research gyms in the area without outing your dd.

 

[LJL07]

Thanks for the responses! We have monthly meetings with the head coach/owner - she is not a coach for the compulsory levels, only the optionals. So none of the level 3 coaches are there and only one coach communicates with us and gives us feedback (so we only get feedback on bars and vault as that is what she coaches). I think I will visit the other gyms, watch a practice and see what they are like, talk to the coaches, etc. I don't know if the optional girls moved up from our compulsory program or transplanted in. We have 1 girl who is training at the elite level. We have a brand new facility and I am wondering if the owner is trying to cut corners/save some money (there has been talk of that) because she got in over her head with the new facility and using lower level coaches to save some. Could also explain why all 18 girls moved up. If I move her to a different gym now, she can't compete this year and she is really looking forward to it, but the safety concerns me.......

Does anyone know if other gyms use junior coaches with team kids?

Around here, mostly yes. At first gym, we had a high school aged level 6-ish coaching the low compulsory levels. Lots of college girls at current gym, but most of them were at least optional levels. This has been a concern for me too because I was seeing mostly lots of just running through the routines.

I don't know where you live, but no gym around here has ever called up another gym to tell them we were shopping around. Not to me or anyone else I know, although I'm always reading about that happening on CB. Getting DD to keep her mouth shut is another issue.

 

[LJL07]

It amazes me that gyms would kick a kid out for looking at other options. I don't even want to know how they would find out. Does stuff like this happen in all sports? Maybe I am just naive or unprepared for the drama in this sport. I certainly don't want my daughter to be punished simply because I am asking questions.

I appreciate all the advice as well as the helpful warnings! I had no idea what we were getting into. I will wait to look as moving is not an option right now anyway and I don't want to ruin things for her there. I do plan to question the safety training of junior coaches though after all the feedback on here, as safey does need to come first.

I agree. That is absurd to me, and if that is really happening, that is just another thing wrong with this sport. It just perpetuates all the drama. We have looked at all the gyms in our area and so have a couple of our friends, and no gym has ever tattled on us.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Wait, the team you are at right now has good upper levels and an elite track, and you are worried about level 3? And really people, spotting in level 3 concerns.... Come on..

 

[wallflower]

I agree. That is absurd to me, and if that is really happening, that is just another thing wrong with this sport. It just perpetuates all the drama. We have looked at all the gyms in our area and so have a couple of our friends, and no gym has ever tattled on us.

It definitely happens. Sometimes they even hear if you call and don't even visit. Maybe not as much at the lower levels.

 

[2G1B]

I will say that IMO spotting in level 3 does have concerns. Those kids are working on robhs on the floor. Personally I wouldn't want a 13 year old spotting my kid for that. Also, theoretically, they should be working on their squat ons and jumping to the high bar and fhs over the vault table some to start getting ready for level 4. More things I wouldn't be OK with a 13 year old spotting my kid on.

 

[LJL07]

It definitely happens. Sometimes they even hear if you call and don't even visit. Maybe not as much at the lower levels.

Yes, I can imagine it happening at higher levels or with optional level girls for sure. Those girls are invested in the sport, and the gyms are really invested in those gymnasts. But at the preteam or low compulsory levels, it seems over the top for gyms to rat families out for looking. Half of them won't even stick with the sport anyways.

 

[LJL07]

Wait, the team you are at right now has good upper levels and an elite track, and you are worried about level 3? And really people, spotting in level 3 concerns.... Come on..

Just because a gym has good optional level gymnasts doesn't mean it's a good gym at the lower compulsory levels. The gym around here with the most optional gymnasts and best optional coaching currently has one of the worst compulsory levels 1-4 program. Major coaching turnover at those levels. Overall a big mess.

 

[skschlag]

Wait, the team you are at right now has good upper levels and an elite track, and you are worried about level 3? And really people, spotting in level 3 concerns.... Come on..

I think 13 yo spotting IS a problem. In reality, 13 yo are not supposed to be working in a gym. They are really limited in the types of positions they can have, and I imagine that employing one would be an insurance nightmare if the child was spotting another. I have one that is almost 13, and I know this would not fly at our gym. They will hire 14 yo to be assistants in the gym, or to run rec games only. At 15 they will let them do a bit more, and at 16 they might run classes more often. BUy at 13...no way!

 

[flippin out]

Yes, I can imagine it happening at higher levels or with optional level girls for sure. Those girls are invested in the sport, and the gyms are really invested in those gymnasts. But at the preteam or low compulsory levels, it seems over the top for gyms to rat families out for looking. Half of them won't even stick with the sport anyways.

Tell me about it! We were ratted out years ago when we looked to switched gyms after my dd's (old) level 4 season (I mean really....a lot of gyms didn't even compete that level). I was very naive and had no idea that it would be so over the top crazy to look elsewhere (esp at that level and leaving a gym that only had compulsory levels). It was a parent who (I don't think) meant to cause harm.....they were just panicked about the team dynamics if/when my kid left. It got very ugly. We had decided to switch anyway, but had intended to make a polite exit.....but instead when we went back to notify and say goodbyes we were greeted with a very messy scene instigated by management. Which by the way, did not traumatize my own kid, after all she was leaving, but did traumatize the girls that had to stay after witnessing the messiness. I mean it was really dumb on their part. I had intended to make a nice "we will miss everyone, but want to wish everyone the best" type of goodbye. Instead they were left with crying girls who were so confused! Really dumb of them.

Lesson learned though! Years later when I needed to move my dd at a high level I was the absolute sole of discretion! I told NO one and I was confident that the gym I was looking at would absolutely not be contacting anyone at her gym that she was at........there was no working relationship as they hated each other and I knew that there were no connections between the parents and kids at either gym (I was the only connection). That gym switch went very smooth....I couldn't have expected it to go any better than it did.

***When it comes to $$$$ (and for a some gym owners, that is all that a kid is..and before anyone shoots arrows at me, I realize not all and I realize that there are a lot that are invested emotionally in the kids.....so don't let the arrow fly lol), they see a gym switch as lost wages and the kid leaving as a poison that will infect their whole team. Which is kind of true....I mean, 1 kid leaving for another gym can cause other parents to wonder Why they are leaving? is my kid better off elsewhere too? ......and that means more $$$ out the owners pocket. Not saying it's right, just that I understand now how these things happen.

 

[profmom]

I think 13 yo spotting IS a problem. In reality, 13 yo are not supposed to be working in a gym. They are really limited in the types of positions they can have, and I imagine that employing one would be an insurance nightmare if the child was spotting another. I have one that is almost 13, and I know this would not fly at our gym. They will hire 14 yo to be assistants in the gym, or to run rec games only. At 15 they will let them do a bit more, and at 16 they might run classes more often. BUy at 13...no way!

It is also a violation of US labor law unless we're talking about the child of the gym owner.

 

[gymgal]

It is also a violation of US labor law unless we're talking about the child of the gym owner.

not if it's volunteer work.