MAG Allotment

[GymDad23]

I feel like there are about 15-20 (max) 11 yr old level 8s in our region. Actually, looking back at each states allotment just for regionals, there will be a total of 83 11/12 year olds. So taking about half seems somewhat reasonable. Luckily, my son is basically primed already to realize the fact that even though he may finish top 20 or higher for his optional routines, if he doesn't meet the JE combined score, there could/will be a big handfull of kids that scored a few points less than him going to nationals in the JO division, which may hurt a little, but he'll get over it. One step at a time now though, still have another week until state.

 

[skschlag]

But half of level 8s and a third of 9/10 seems odd. Although I think the allotments are based on total number of kids, not just those making regionals. But I'd have to look again

 

[profmom]

Yes, the allotments are based on registrations to the state meets.

Last year (my son's one and only year of competing L8), our region's allotment for L8 was more like a third of those who competed at regionals. I do not understand the logic behind resetting so that half the L8s make it but the same percentage of 9s and 10s as in previous years. Our region doesn't publish numbers, but based on what I've seen this season, the percentage of L8s who make nationals will be far higher than the percentage of L9s and younger L10s. I know it's tough to make the scheduling work, but shouldn't the guys who've toughed it out all the way to L10 have priority over the younger guys?

 

[karenity]

For region 1 would be 30 / 56 or 53% for lev 8 11/12. For 9 and 10 around 30% qualify.

Anyone know if it has always been this way or is it a change from prior years? And if so, anyone know why?

 

[GymDad23]

2016 Allotment-> Link Removed

2017-> Link Removed

Totals seem to be in line with last year. Even with the allotments from state to regionals this year, almost all optionals make regionals anyways, so I can't quite figure it out.

 

[skschlag]

Yes, the numbers are the same. The percentages are not. Example Last year we had 27 L9 eligible for nationals and 11 went. This year, we have 34 and 11 are allotted. L8 Last year 40 eligible, 10 went. This year, 37 eligible, 15 are going.

So there is some discrepancy in how they determine. Obviously, the goal is keeping those total numbers somewhat static rather than looking at a percentage across the board that remains the same across levels/ages.

 

[sce]

Yes, the allotments are based on registrations to the state meets.

Last year (my son's one and only year of competing L8), our region's allotment for L8 was more like a third of those who competed at regionals. I do not understand the logic behind resetting so that half the L8s make it but the same percentage of 9s and 10s as in previous years. Our region doesn't publish numbers, but based on what I've seen this season, the percentage of L8s who make nationals will be far higher than the percentage of L9s and younger L10s. I know it's tough to make the scheduling work, but shouldn't the guys who've toughed it out all the way to L10 have priority over the younger guys?

I think it is partially about having full sessions.

 

[karenity]

I like to see the actual numbers, so I looked at 2016 for Region 1 and compared the two years. As others have mentioned, the national allotment numbers haven't changed too much across the different levels.

• The level 9 and younger level 10's haven't changed too much.
• Regional changes: The age change and the JE level 8 11 year old requirement has increased the numbers of athletes in the oldest group by about 30% and decreased the number of athletes in the level 8 group (youngest) by almost 50%.
• National allotment: The # of athletes in the younger group increased and in the older group decreased.

The end result is that for this region now roughly 1 in 2 level 8 11-12 year olds will qualify for nationals where roughly only 1 in 4 level 10 17-18 year olds will qualify. In 2016 the percentages were flipped for these two age groups.

 

[skschlag]

That is what we are seeing as well.

 

[profmom]

Whoa, those region one percentages for the oldest age group are really a huge change! Apparently there the usual assumption that it's easier for the older guys to get a swan song at nationals will not hold true this year.

Here is my unasked-for advice if the powers that be want to keep roughly the same number of athletes but let more 10s get a chance to compete. Flip the levels at nationals.

Thursday: L8/L9 prelims plus JE L10 optional routines (JE takes a session from current L8)
Friday: remaining L10 prelims, which can now accommodate an additional session with the JE 10s on a different day
Saturday: L8/L9 finals and JE L10 techs
Sunday: L10 JO finals

If USAG can survive all the complaining about the age change, it can survive the complaining of L10 parents who "paid their dues all those years we had to compete on Sunday and now we wanna go home early!"

 

[skschlag]

Yeah. It is sad

We actually have 35 L9...11 slots.

Last year...27 L9....11 slots

 

[skschlag]

oh and..31 L8 15 slots.

 

[skschlag]

So, does anyone know the answer to this question @krc @dunno

If a JE kiddo does not make the allotment but makes the JE score, and petitions in, and the petition is accepted, does that kid bump out a (JO) kid from the allotment or are they added to the meet separately under the petition?

 

[MyBoysFlip]

No- at least not if its an 11 yo. It stated that 11 yo JE petitions will not count against the allotment.

 

[skschlag]

No- at least not if its an 11 yo. It stated that 11 yo JE petitions will not count against the allotment.

Right. so does that mean that others do? Or did they just add that since 11 yo are not listed as an age group?

 

[krc]

@skschlag The allotment for all levels is combined JO and JE. It is extremely unlikely that an athlete will make the JE score and not make the allotment. If Jimmy Gymnast completely blows TS and Opt sessions, (doesn't make JE score or allotment) he could petition as a JE or JO. He would need to have previous scores, TS and Opt, to support the petition. If granted, he would be added on top of the allotment - would not kick anyone out.

KRC

 

[skschlag]

@skschlag The allotment for all levels is combined JO and JE. It is extremely unlikely that an athlete will make the JE score and not make the allotment. If Jimmy Gymnast completely blows TS and Opt sessions, (doesn't make JE score or allotment) he could petition as a JE or JO. He would need to have previous scores, TS and Opt, to support the petition. If granted, he would be added on top of the allotment - would not kick anyone out.

KRC

Thank you!

 

[flash]

That is a great table that @karenity put together and says something about what I saw last year. The 18 year old JO group was the least competitive group at nationals. The scores in the 16 year old group were generally higher than the eighteen year old group after the first few places. Frankly, most kids who would have been considered 18 in the old age groups were already Freshman in college so it was a small group. However, they gave a full allotment to 17-18 resulting in the percentages that are in the table. I'm not sure if they made a mistake in prior years or it was an intentional swan song like @profmom said. I heard of several kids who qualified for nationals for the first time as a high school senior because it was easier than when they were younger. I think that is a great reward, but it seems like that's not what they are doing this year. I actually liked the idea of rewarding those kids as this will likely be the end of their gymnastics careers.

With the age group change, the # of level 10's is similar to last year. However, if you think about it in terms of what grade most kids are in. Last year's allotment covered Sophomores through Seniors. This year most freshman are 10's, so the same number of spots now covers all four years of high school, rather than just three.

 

[gracyomalley]

That is a great table that @karenity put together and says something about what I saw last year. The 18 year old JO group was the least competitive group at nationals. The scores in the 16 year old group were generally higher than the eighteen year old group after the first few places. Frankly, most kids who would have been considered 18 in the old age groups were already Freshman in college so it was a small group. However, they gave a full allotment to 17-18 resulting in the percentages that are in the table. I'm not sure if they made a mistake in prior years or it was an intentional swan song like @profmom said. I heard of several kids who qualified for nationals for the first time as a high school senior because it was easier than when they were younger. I think that is a great reward, but it seems like that's not what they are doing this year. I actually liked the idea of rewarding those kids as this will likely be the end of their gymnastics careers.

With the age group change, the # of level 10's is similar to last year. However, if you think about it in terms of what grade most kids are in. Last year's allotment covered Sophomores through Seniors. This year most freshman are 10's, so the same number of spots now covers all four years of high school, rather than just three.

just to clarify - in our region there haven't been college kids competing that I know of - and most of the older age group kids either started late or were average gymnasts who didn't quit - I agree with you that it was nice to see them get to do nationals more often their last year as most of them were "out of age" for nationals until L10 - and that had nothing to do with their scores...just their ages and the rules. I really liked the fact that the men's program supported these boys and didn't make them feel "bad" for being older or slower to progress - putting less pressure on than the girls side of things...I hope USAG can keep that balance while working to get in line with elite programs worldwide (the reason for the new changes as it has been explained to me). Our state had literally 2.7x as many men's L10s as womens L10s at states this weekend - so I would argue the program was doing something right to keep boys from quitting due to frustration!

 

[GymDad23]

Just saw that the nationals website was finally posted. I was curious about the schedule to do some research on possible flights and noticed the admission prices........yikes. So much for making it reasonable to take the whole family. Good chance my son doesn't make it anyways, but now I know if he does, it'll be a one parent and competing kid trip.