Women Back tuck trepidation

[AlexandraU16]

Any advice for handling fears around learning a ROBHBT?

My DD(7) is a more cautious gymnast who only attempts skills when she feels very ready and has sufficiently mulled it over in her mind. She doesn’t have major fears but has had to work through some anxieties with jumping to high bar (had a bad fall once and that effected her for months), back walkovers on beam, and some hesitation with fly aways (still working on that one).
These hesitations/fears do seem to be popping up more as the skills grow but so far they’ve all been things she works through on her own time.

Her group recently started working ROBHBT and she will not even try any of the back tuck drills or progressions besides over a barrel or with a very heavy coach spot. She won’t try one off beam or off a tramp board onto a big mat or anything.
I feel pretty certain she’s physically capable at this point but for some reason she really thinks she will land on her head (she hasn’t had any accidents with this skill that I’m aware of nor witnessed any teammates have one). She had zero fears learning back handsprings and will do a dozen in a row when given a chance. Is there something fundamentally scarier about a back tuck vs a back handspring? Any tips for moving through it or is this just another sit back and wait and say nothing type of thing? Her teammates who often have more hesitations than she does seem to be fearlessly going for this one so it has me wondering. Trying not to compare but trying to understand where she’s coming from as someone who has never tumbled in her life…

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Dealing with these sorts of mental blocks is very individual; there's not really a guaranteed solution.

That said, my first impulse would be to focus on trampoline progressions. The basic progression goes something like this:
-Back drop
-Back drop, pullover to hands and knees
-Back drop pullover to front drop.
-Back drop pullover to feet
-Back tuck

But going into the progression, my expectation wouldn't be that she'll fly through it; rather, I expect she'd get stuck somewhere in the process, and then we'd try to break that step down even further. The overall idea is to isolate the part that's scary in the finest detail possible. Break the skill down into components, figure out which component is scary, then break that component down into smaller components, find out which part is scary, etc. Hopefully, we can eventually break it down small enough for the scary part to stop being scary.

 

[AlexandraU16]

Dealing with these sorts of mental blocks is very individual; there's not really a guaranteed solution.

That said, my first impulse would be to focus on trampoline progressions. The basic progression goes something like this:
-Back drop
-Back drop, pullover to hands and knees
-Back drop pullover to front drop.
-Back drop pullover to feet
-Back tuck

But going into the progression, my expectation wouldn't be that she'll fly through it; rather, I expect she'd get stuck somewhere in the process, and then we'd try to break that step down even further. The overall idea is to isolate the part that's scary in the finest detail possible. Break the skill down into components, figure out which component is scary, then break that component down into smaller components, find out which part is scary, etc. Hopefully, we can eventually break it down small enough for the scary part to stop being scary.

Thanks so much! I showed her all of these ideas and she feels very confident she can do them so I guess we will give it the college try and see how it goes. Her current coach is wonderful and we love her but she is more of a let them try it coach and doesn’t spend huge amounts of time on progression/drills that I see anyway and my kiddo is a progressions girlie for sure so these are great suggestions.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

The back drop is the most important step. She should take off with her arms up, body ALMOST straight, but slightly open in the hips and shoulders, eyes on the wall in front of her. She should watch the wall and remain in this stretched position as long as possible, and right at the last moment return her head to a neutral position and lifting her feet towards the ceiling.
(ideally, she should master it on a squishy mat first, then move it to a trampoline).

This mimics -- and exaggerates the most important bits -- of the takeoff for a back tuck.

 

[AlexandraU16]

Thank you! She tried some and the drops themselves looked good but no matter what she couldn’t rebound back to her feet. Not sure if that’s a her issue or a home trampoline issue.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'd have to see it to say what she needs to fix; I think we're approaching the limit of how much help I can give over text without seeing it.

Let the records show I am emphatically not a fan of home trampolines.

 

[AlexandraU16]

I'd have to see it to say what she needs to fix; I think we're approaching the limit of how much help I can give over text without seeing it.

Let the records show I am emphatically not a fan of home trampolines.

Haha I know, I have seen your posts about them! She doesn’t tumble on it much at all- her sisters use it more than she does mostly for just jumping and for reading in the sunshine.
We just rushed out to try this particular thing since you gave good advice.

No worries. I don’t think she has much trampoline experience. They have a tumbl trak at her gym but I think that’s it. It was useful anyway- she was mildly nervous about falling into the back drop the first few times and quickly worked through that so I think it was useful for working through backwards fears at least!

 

[BusyMomof2]

Not to hijack this post but do you have anything similar you can share for my daughter who is suddenly struggling with her back handspring on beam? She says she can't stop closing her shoulders and was in tears last night, fearing that she's created some unrepairable bad habit. She does shoulder stretches nightly to help open her shoulders but this back handspring issue is new - and she needs the skill for a beam series next year.

 

[AlexandraU16]

Not to hijack this post but do you have anything similar you can share for my daughter who is suddenly struggling with her back handspring on beam? She says she can't stop closing her shoulders and was in tears last night, fearing that she's created some unrepairable bad habit. She does shoulder stretches nightly to help open her shoulders but this back handspring issue is new - and she needs the skill for a beam series next year.

Obviously I can’t help but sending you hugs…nothing fun when they’re in their head about something like that.

 

[BusyMomof2]

Obviously I can’t help but sending you hugs…nothing fun when they’re in their head about something like that.

<3 thank you - should have tagged @Geoffrey Taucer

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Not to hijack this post but do you have anything similar you can share for my daughter who is suddenly struggling with her back handspring on beam? She says she can't stop closing her shoulders and was in tears last night, fearing that she's created some unrepairable bad habit. She does shoulder stretches nightly to help open her shoulders but this back handspring issue is new - and she needs the skill for a beam series next year.

Beam is not my forte, and there are almost certainly other coaches here who could give you better advice than I can.

I will say that my first thought is that passive flexibility exercises are most likely not the way to go; active range of motion work will likely help her more. But it could also be a technique issue.

Just guessing; is she between the ages of 10 and 14, and lately has a gigantic appetite all the time? I ask, because suddenly losing a skill for reasons other than fear sounds to me like a growth spurt is throwing her off.

Might be worth starting another thread for this question.

 

[BusyMomof2]

Beam is not my forte, and there are almost certainly other coaches here who could give you better advice than I can.

I will say that my first thought is that passive flexibility exercises are most likely not the way to go; active range of motion work will likely help her more. But it could also be a technique issue.

Just guessing; is she between the ages of 10 and 14, and lately has a gigantic appetite all the time? I ask, because suddenly losing a skill for reasons other than fear sounds to me like a growth spurt is throwing her off.

Might be worth starting another thread for this question.

Yes - 11 years old and grew 5 inches this year!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Yes - 11 years old and grew 5 inches this year!

Then loss of some skills is to be expected. The muscle memory she has developed for the skill hasn't been able adapt to her new dimensions and weight distribution. Once she stops growing, it will get better in time.

 

[Dahlialover]

This is going to take some time. My kid had been doing back tucks on the trampoline for over a year before he started doing them on the floor. Focus on the trampoline drills mentioned above and be very patient. Rushing a kid into a skill that they are not ready for is counterproductive. Sometimes you gotta go slow to go fast.

Here is a drill that was helpful for my son when he was transitioning his back tucks to the floor. If you don’t have a wedge mat, she can do just the “set” part without the backwards roll into a bed. We have a wedge mat, so we put that on the bed and he did the whole drill. Head position matters, so pay attention to that.



Good luck.

 

[AlexandraU16]

This is going to take some time. My kid had been doing back tucks on the trampoline for over a year before he started doing them on the floor. Focus on the trampoline drills mentioned above and be very patient. Rushing a kid into a skill that they are not ready for is counterproductive. Sometimes you gotta go slow to go fast.

Here is a drill that was helpful for my son when he was transitioning his back tucks to the floor. If you don’t have a wedge mat, she can do just the “set” part without the backwards roll into a bed. We have a wedge mat, so we put that on the bed and he did the whole drill. Head position matters, so pay attention to that.



Good luck.

Thanks so much! They really just started working them and there really isn’t a hurry. She hasn’t even had her state meet yet so they’re just beginning to uptrain- you’re totally right about patience. I’ve watched her learning process with other skills and it just seems like her hesitation to even try is higher with this one. I guess it’s just scarier to her for whatever reason.

 

[AlexandraU16]

Just an update- she’s now doing standing back tucks on her own, got her flyaway, and will connect a tuck to her ROBHS without stopping with a spot. I guess patience really is key!

 

[AlexandraU16]

Next question: she has a ROBHBT now on trampoline/tumble track. Unfortunately we just had the girls from the lower level move up into her group meaning more energy is needing to be spent catching them up so she isn’t getting as many reps as she was before. Is there anything she can be doing at home or spare moments at gym to help the transition to floor? In your experience is it usually fairly seamless to make the move with ROBHBT to floor or should I prepare for a bumpy road? Thanks everyone.
(If video would help with your advice I have a couple but they’re just from her goofing off at a birthday party at a trampoline park not from inside the gym)

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

ROBHSBT isn't something I'd suggest working at home; general strength, flexibility, and handstand basics are pretty much always the best thing to do at home, and only if the athlete feels motivated enough to do it on her own.

As for the transition from tumbletrak to floor, it depends largely on the quality of her technique. If it's reasonably clean on tumbletrak, it doesn't change that much in moving to floor; I wouldn't call it seamless, since small details in timing and rhythm change pretty significantly, but if it's done well on tumbletrak, it's not that much harder to do it on floor.
However, tumbletrak is much more forgiving of poor technique, which might not work on floor. So I'd have to see it to give a confident answer.

 

[AlexandraU16]

ROBHSBT isn't something I'd suggest working at home; general strength, flexibility, and handstand basics are pretty much always the best thing to do at home, and only if the athlete feels motivated enough to do it on her own.

As for the transition from tumbletrak to floor, it depends largely on the quality of her technique. If it's reasonably clean on tumbletrak, it doesn't change that much in moving to floor; I wouldn't call it seamless, since small details in timing and rhythm change pretty significantly, but if it's done well on tumbletrak, it's not that much harder to do it on floor.
However, tumbletrak is much more forgiving of poor technique, which might not work on floor. So I'd have to see it to give a confident answer.

I knew I could count on you for the good advice. She doesn’t typically do much at home besides standing on her head and full turns etc but she’s been chomping at the bit on these back tucks once she got over her initial hesitation. I’ll post a couple videos. One doesn’t show her round off and the one that does her BHS seems short which is not a problem for her typically. I can see the tuck needs more height but I will say the trampolines there are very loose.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Short answer: the back tuck is good enough, but the ROBHS needs some work before I'd put the pass on floor if I were her coach.

Long answer:

The back tuck itself is reasonably good. It would be better if she got her arms up more on takeoff, but other than the arms, her positions look correct. Head neutral, core tight, and a beautiful takeoff angle; that takeoff usually takes a long time to get right, and other than the arms she's doing it quite well. If I were her coach, I don't see anything in the back tuck itself that would make me hesitant to take it to floor.

HOWEVER

Were I her coach, I'd want to see a longer hurdle and a longer BHS before moving it to floor. And this is an area where the tumbletrak is quite forgiving; I'd hazard a guess that the ROBHS is probably even shorter on a hard floor.
A long BHS translates into more power for the back tuck. In order to make the BHS longer, she needs to get further behind her feet before taking off for the skill. In order to do that, she needs to turn the roundoff over more, and sit further back in the transition between RO and BHS. A longer hurdle and lower lunge will help the roundoff turn over more.

But again, none of this is stuff I'd focus on at home or at the trampoline park. Here are some things she can do at home that might help:
-Leg strength. This can be as simple as running and jumping and generally playing outside. This will help her get a more aggressive entry in her roundoff
-Core strength. I don't see any indication that she's lacking here, but there's no such thing as too much core strength, and it can help her get a more aggressive snap down at the end of the RO, and a more powerful takeoff for the BHS. There are lots of core exercises one can do at home, and something simple like plank holds and hollow/arch rockers are all you really need.
-Handstand holds. These help with shoulder strength, core strength, and general body control. The taller and straighter and more stable the handstand, the easier everything else gets