WAG Bent arms on kip & front hip circl

[Sk8ermaiden]

Scores are so wildly variable. Some days a worse routine will get a better score or vice versa, all because of which judge is on what event. There's one judge in the area, that if we see her, whatever your score normally is, adjust it down by .5. As I have learned here, some judges hate flexed feet and some hate bent knees and some are super harsh on turns, etc. And all of these deductions are "up tos" you can deduct up to .2 each time or whatever. So one judge takes .05 each time and one takes .1 each time and it can make a dramatic difference on score.

I tell my DD that she can't control her scores, placements, or who her competitors are. She can't even totally control if she just has a bad day and her tricks go wrong. The only thing she can control is her level of effort, and if she did her best then she should be proud. It helps so much if the gymnasts don't pay attention to the scores. We always make non-score goals on each event on the way to the meet.

 

[LindyHopper]

Scores are so wildly variable. Some days a worse routine will get a better score or vice versa, all because of which judge is on what event. There's one judge in the area, that if we see her, whatever your score normally is, adjust it down by .5. As I have learned here, some judges hate flexed feet and some hate bent knees and some are super harsh on turns, etc. And all of these deductions are "up tos" you can deduct up to .2 each time or whatever. So one judge takes .05 each time and one takes .1 each time and it can make a dramatic difference on score.

I tell my DD that she can't control her scores, placements, or who her competitors are. She can't even totally control if she just has a bad day and her tricks go wrong. The only thing she can control is her level of effort, and if she did her best then she should be proud. It helps so much if the gymnasts don't pay attention to the scores. We always make non-score goals on each event on the way to the meet.

This x1000!!!!

 

[raenndrops]

I'm glad to hear that these things *should* sort themselves out with time. Today her AA was the same as the last meet, a 32.15 and I was a bit disappointed. I know she's been more focused and really trying to correct her mistakes, but it didn't translate into a higher score. I tried to point out the victories (like a straight arm kip) as despite the score, I know she's making progress. Thanks for the feedback, it's really helpful as we have no clue what's *normal* or not for level of experience.

I agree with @Sk8ermaiden about scores varying.
Not all 32.15s are created equally.
Today, YG had a meet (Xcel Platinum)... on floor, she scored her 2nd highest score of the season. However, she is most proud of it. We have a really consistent floor worker. Her routines all look almost identical - BEAUTIFUL. She regularly scores in the low 9s (which is really good around here). Today, with a pretty similar routine, SHE scored 8.70 (her only score below 9.0 so far this season) and YG scored 8.40. This is the closest YG has ever been to the other girl on floor. So relatively, she knows her routine was good.

 

[MILgymFAM]

So what did your coach say about “illegally” skipping silver? Did she drop down? Will she in the future? Does he not care? There is a lot of talk on CB about how scandalous it is to simply skip required levels. That talk is almost exclusively centered on JO and I find it fascinating that when it has happened on Xcel, it seems totally glossed over. If this thread had been about your DD not scoring well in L5 and it was figured out that she skipped L4.. well that would be the answer and the discussion. I can’t help but wonder if people’s bias agaisnt Xcel makes them think it’s less important to follow the leveling rules there? I would say that I am sorry to sidetrack your thread, but I honestly think this is an important part that’s being overlooked.

 

[cmarie]

So what did your coach say about “illegally” skipping silver? Did she drop down? Will she in the future? Does he not care? There is a lot of talk on CB about how scandalous it is to simply skip required levels. That talk is almost exclusively centered on JO and I find it fascinating that when it has happened on Xcel, it seems totally glossed over. If this thread had been about your DD not scoring well in L5 and it was figured out that she skipped L4.. well that would be the answer and the discussion. I can’t help but wonder if people’s bias agaisnt Xcel makes them think it’s less important to follow the leveling rules there? I would say that I am sorry to sidetrack your thread, but I honestly think this is an important part that’s being overlooked.

I haven't had the discussion, and honestly am not sure if I am (or how to go about it). While I do think it would have benefited us to do silver, and am heavily considering moving her down so that she can have less pressure to compete the things she just isn't ready to compete, I think I have to be careful about how to message the fact that she (and three other girls who were skipped up) should not have been. I think I may throw it in as an FYI to the coach, but I'm still working on how to message that. Ultimately I want to make sure my daughter doesn't get *reprimanded* by the coaches and or her teammates for having a mom who uncovered a scandal. Honestly though, this is our coach's first year running xcel and I don't think it was on purpose, nonetheless I think she should probably read the rule book as not only has entry rules been updated, but so have other things in terms of deductions and requirements. I'll let you know how the conversation goes if/when we have it. I think it'll be a much easier convo should I move my DD down.

 

[LindyHopper]

I find it fascinating that when it has happened on Xcel, it seems totally glossed over.

For me, I know so very little about Xcel. My lack of experience or knowledge with Xcel or its COP makes me hesitant to make any comments about it.

But I agree with your POV. Of course, when mobility scores are there they should be acheived before competing the next level. Rules are rules and should apply to everyone. It makes me wonder if a meet's sanction is in jeopardy when this happens as I believe it is when someone skips a level without scoring out in JO

 

[MILgymFAM]

For me, I know so very little about Xcel. My lack of experience or knowledge with Xcel or its COP makes me hesitant to make any comments about it.

But I agree with your POV. Of course, when mobility scores are there they should be acheived before competing the next level. Rules are rules and should apply to everyone. It makes me wonder if a meet's sanction is in jeopardy when this happens as I believe it is when someone skips a level without scoring out in JO

I would say no ones meet sanctions are in jeopardy- whether it’s xcel or JO, but they should be equally in jeopardy. I speak from firsthand knowledge of multiple gymnasts who were not scored out properly in JO. This isn’t a single gym issue in our experience- in fact it’s unspokenly common.

 

[John]

I would say no ones meet sanctions are in jeopardy- whether it’s xcel or JO, but they should be equally in jeopardy. I speak from firsthand knowledge of multiple gymnasts who were not scored out properly in JO. This isn’t a single gym issue in our experience- in fact it’s unspokenly common.

This made me wonder. Does the USAG keep all meet scores in some fashion? Its obvious that not all meet scores are published to the online resources. If the USAG does not keep each athletes scores associated with their USAG identification number its seems like they are again failing their own system.

 

[gymnastmom05]

For me, I know so very little about Xcel. My lack of experience or knowledge with Xcel or its COP makes me hesitant to make any comments about it.

But I agree with your POV. Of course, when mobility scores are there they should be acheived before competing the next level. Rules are rules and should apply to everyone. It makes me wonder if a meet's sanction is in jeopardy when this happens as I believe it is when someone skips a level without scoring out in JO

I agree. I don't know enough about Xcel. I guess I think that's true with the majority on this board? Maybe I'm assuming but I've gotten the impression more people have kids competing in JO therefore it gets more comments with rules and such?

 

[Flippin'A]

I guess it didn't seem like a big deal to me because once she switches to Jo, her progression will be the same. She isn't required to compete anything before level 4, so it seems less important which Xcel level she competes this season. I hope it isn't belittling to Xcel, but I don't know too much about it either and tend to think of it more as competing for fun. It sounds like a great option, but I just haven't had any experience with it.

 

[raenndrops]

This made me wonder. Does the USAG keep all meet scores in some fashion? Its obvious that not all meet scores are published to the online resources. If the USAG does not keep each athletes scores associated with their USAG identification number its seems like they are again failing their own system.

With the new-ish USAG Online Meet Registration... which they WANT everyone to use, it will be easier to track levels and catch "level liars." I think they need to REQUIRE all sanctioned meets to use the program... that way they can assure that gymnasts arent being inappropriately placed.
Currently, if a gymnast looks to be in the wrong level with this program, I think the coach has to show the results from any meet used to score out (that wasnt done through the registration system)... then the meet director would have to verify that it was actually a SANCTIONED meet. If the meet director doesnt do his / her due dilligence, coaches will continue to get away with it.

 

[raenndrops]

I guess it didn't seem like a big deal to me because once she switches to Jo, her progression will be the same. She isn't required to compete anything before level 4, so it seems less important which Xcel level she competes this season. I hope it isn't belittling to Xcel, but I don't know too much about it either and tend to think of it more as competing for fun. It sounds like a great option, but I just haven't had any experience with it.

It is belittling Xcel though. My YG competes Xcel Platinum. Trust me, Xcel isnt just competing "for fun" any more than JO is competing for fun. It depends on how the gym uses it. Some use it as a way to let rec gymnasts compete, but in other gyms, it is EQUAL to JO. Our Xcel girls practice the same hours (at the same time and with the same coaches) as the JO L3-L8 girls.

They changed the entry level of the Xcel program to Silver (like L4 is the entry level in JO)... therefore, if a gymnast has no competitive experience, she has to score out of Silver to move up to Gold.

 

[coachmolly]

So what did your coach say about “illegally” skipping silver? Did she drop down? Will she in the future? Does he not care? There is a lot of talk on CB about how scandalous it is to simply skip required levels. That talk is almost exclusively centered on JO and I find it fascinating that when it has happened on Xcel, it seems totally glossed over. If this thread had been about your DD not scoring well in L5 and it was figured out that she skipped L4.. well that would be the answer and the discussion. I can’t help but wonder if people’s bias agaisnt Xcel makes them think it’s less important to follow the leveling rules there? I would say that I am sorry to sidetrack your thread, but I honestly think this is an important part that’s being overlooked.

We had 3 girls "illegally" skip Silver the year the new rules went into play. I figured HC knew the rules and worked something out. I mentioned it to her at the end of the season when she talked about a girl skipping Platinum and she had no idea there were move up requirements in place for Xcel. As someone who likes to do things by the book, it really bugged me, but she just kind of brushed it off. I doubt anything will ever come of it either.

 

[Flippin'A]

It is belittling Xcel though. My YG competes Xcel Platinum. Trust me, Xcel isnt just competing "for fun" any more than JO is competing for fun. It depends on how the gym uses it. Some use it as a way to let rec gymnasts compete, but in other gyms, it is EQUAL to JO. Our Xcel girls practice the same hours (at the same time and with the same coaches) as the JO L3-L8 girls.

They changed the entry level of the Xcel program to Silver (like L4 is the entry level in JO)... therefore, if a gymnast has no competitive experience, she has to score out of Silver to move up to Gold.

It definitely was not my intention to insult Xcel. The program didn't exist when I was a gymnast and my daughter is just starting out so I know nothing about it. When I first heard about it I thought it sounded like an amazing opportunity to be able to participate in "serious" gymnastics without as much pressure and while still having a life as a kid. I'm really sorry if my comment came off belittling. I'd like to ask, though, if the coaches, practices, and commitment level are equal between JO and Xcel, then what makes a gymnast decide to compete one over the other? Is the cost different? Is it about what the gymnast's long term goals are in the sport? Is it about skipping compulsories? What's the benefit of having both programs if they aren't differentiated? I ask because I'm genuinely curious.

And I absolutely agree that the rules are in place and therefore they should be followed. I was only responding to the question of why people weren't getting as worked up about the level skipping as they would have if the OP's daughter had skipped a required JO level.

 

[mls529]

I haven't had the discussion, and honestly am not sure if I am (or how to go about it). While I do think it would have benefited us to do silver, and am heavily considering moving her down so that she can have less pressure to compete the things she just isn't ready to compete, I think I have to be careful about how to message the fact that she (and three other girls who were skipped up) should not have been. I think I may throw it in as an FYI to the coach, but I'm still working on how to message that. Ultimately I want to make sure my daughter doesn't get *reprimanded* by the coaches and or her teammates for having a mom who uncovered a scandal. Honestly though, this is our coach's first year running xcel and I don't think it was on purpose, nonetheless I think she should probably read the rule book as not only has entry rules been updated, but so have other things in terms of deductions and requirements. I'll let you know how the conversation goes if/when we have it. I think it'll be a much easier convo should I move my DD down.

Two thoughts to the OP: I don't know what region you are in, but the Golds in our area are pretty competitive. I will admit I was surprised, and that is not a knock on Xcel at all. The Golds in my area are competing clean routines that would score pretty well in Levels 5 & 6. Many spent time competing Silver or have moved from JO -- there is so much to be learned in competing a year on tight form, straight legs/arms, etc. So, it makes sense that your daughter who is brand new to competing may take a little time to catch up since she is competing against girls who may have 2-4+ years experience! She looks great and it is ok for her to learn these skills at whatever level the coach wants her at. I personally wouldn't request a "move down," as I am sure your daughter is happy to train where she is at.

To address your concerns about bringing up the Silver score out issue, it is probably worth casually mentioning. Our gym is new to Xcel and often I learn things from this board that the coaches may not even know. As long as you mention it in a nice way ("you know, a friend mentioned that there is a new rule about scoring out of Silver"), and not accusatory, you will look less like a crazy gym mom. As you said, I am very sure it was not on purpose -- the rule is new as of last year. The coach may be able to petition the girls into gold, but you don't want to get all the way to the state meet and have issues arise!

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

In our area, Xcel IS lower hours, and more flexible on skills, but in my opinion, that makes the score out scores even more important. You've got girls who don't go a lot of hours who want progressively higher skills.

I do feel that, while the top competitors in Xcel could hang with JO any day, many of the consistent bottom scorers are doing some very scary gymnastics. I feel that with the generosity of the scoring in my area, the mandate scores are still too low. There is a girl on DD's team who is in no way ready to move to Gold, who has already hit the mandate score. Luckily our coaches are responsible and I know they will not move her up until she is ready.

And that's the issue. Mandate scores aren't to make gymnastics more serious and less fun, they are to try and help keep gymnasts safer. This is (IMO) even more important in a rec league where gymnasts may take much longer to build the strength to do skills safely.

I wish there was a "Crap, you scared me!" Deduction judges could take. Like up to 3 points.

 

[raenndrops]

It definitely was not my intention to insult Xcel. The program didn't exist when I was a gymnast and my daughter is just starting out so I know nothing about it. When I first heard about it I thought it sounded like an amazing opportunity to be able to participate in "serious" gymnastics without as much pressure and while still having a life as a kid. I'm really sorry if my comment came off belittling. I'd like to ask, though, if the coaches, practices, and commitment level are equal between JO and Xcel, then what makes a gymnast decide to compete one over the other? Is the cost different? Is it about what the gymnast's long term goals are in the sport? Is it about skipping compulsories? What's the benefit of having both programs if they aren't differentiated? I ask because I'm genuinely curious.

And I absolutely agree that the rules are in place and therefore they should be followed. I was only responding to the question of why people weren't getting as worked up about the level skipping as they would have if the OP's daughter had skipped a required JO level.

I am always happy to answer questions about Xcel. Your curiosity is understandable. Here are my answers.

At our gym, the costs are the same. We only do JO L3-L8... but could also do L9 (if our L8s get there) and Xcel Gold and Platinum.
The importance of having both programs is that it keeps girls in gymnastics. If a girl had to compete a compulsory level for a 4th time, she would most likely quit. By giving her the option to compete her OWN routines with her OWN music, she is less likely to quit.

Xcel is ONLY allowed for girls who will turn 11 or older during the competition season. They have to be "stuck" at a compulsory level for going on a 3rd year if they are younger OR for a 2nd year if they are older OR if they were a L3 or L4 and compete for the Jr. High team, after the school season, they can continue on where they left off with JO or transition to Xcel Gold.
IF they were L4 and ready to move up to L5, we plan their Jr. High routines to serve dual purpose (meet Jr. High requirements AND L6 requirements). Those girls compete Jr. High team (Spet-Oct), then they compete L5 until they score out 2x, then they compete L6. Those who are set to repeat L4 or move up from L3 to L4 often choose to transition over to Xcel Gold.

My YG competed Old L4 at 7 and 8. Then she competed Current L3 at 9. She still wasn't ready for L4. She was allowed to compete Gold at 10, but ONLY because she would be doing a 4th year at the same level if not! She competed 2 years at Gold (with a year off in between) and moved to Platinum this season. She will compete Platinum until she is at least 14. If she decides later to switch back to JO, the coach will properly petition her into L6... but ONLY if she is ready for it (Bars aren't there yet and Beam isn't quite there).