MAG Can we talk L8?

[profmom]

. . . with the caveat that this conversation is way premature. Nonetheless, our program director has mentioned several times in the last few weeks as we head into states and regionals that he hopes to move four or five guys who are currently competing L6 up to L8 next year, largely because of age. Three are currently competing as eleven year olds and two are ten.

What kind of start values do they need to have on their events to be credible L8s? I'm not saying credible = good shot at nationals. I just mean good enough that they can do OK and win a few medals here and there and not embarrass themselves. Do most L8s have a lot of Bs and some Cs or higher in their routines? Or is it more typical to have routines with a lot of As and a few Bs and higher skills here and there? And do most of them have all the required parts on all events? I think most of our guys will be able to put together most of the parts on individual events but not all of them on all events. And I don't see any of them having B dismounts on everything next year; in fact, I'd guess most of them may at best have just the double back off rings if that.

Is our coach crazy? Can these boys be ready for L8? Or will next year just be really about growth and learning and doing the best they can while recognizing that they are behind the curve.

 

[skschlag]

D has mostly As and Bs, working on a couple of Cs. He is hoping to hae a couple of Cs by regionals. He doesn't place much, but isn't embarrased out there. THere is such a range of things being done at a level 8 meet that it is just really different than anything seen in compulsaries. Kids are doing FHS vaults, and kids are doing full twisting tsuks. SOme kids have lots of Cs in their routines, and some have all As. So, with the right mindset of growth, learning, and individual improvement, I do think it is possible!

 

[profmom]

That's good to know because your son is great! I'd be beyond happy if DS looked anything like that next year!

 

[skschlag]

Aww. you are sweet.

 

[ZJsMom]

I'd say the solid level 8s in my area are scoring mid-60s and up. There are very few super stars who have a bunch of Cs. Most are making routines out of As and Bs. The majority only have three element groups on rings and high bar. You often see A dismounts from p bars and high bar. Really, 8 can be easier than 7. 7's pretty hard and you can't work around the kid's strengths and weaknesses like you can with optional routines.

 

[skschlag]

can I move to your region? D is in the high 60s, and not placing here YOu have to be at 70 to place in his age group at level 8. 67 gets you 20th place here. Lots of Cs on lots of events. But we are ok, and just keep moving forward.

I wish D had been an 8 last year. I think it would have helped a lot. He would have been pushed more. I agree that 8 can be easier than 7!

 

[ZJsMom]

At out state meet a couple days ago there were only 2 scores in the 70s for level 8 11-12. High 60s was third place.

Our region is really small though. Our allotment numbers for nationals are in the single digits.

 

[skschlag]

Ours were last year also. I just checked last year's numbers...only 9 went from level 8. That just took D's chances from small, next to 0 Not sure how they will change this year, but I think I can already name the 9 that would go from our region this year.

 

[MyBoysFlip]

There is always a wide variety in L8 here - from routines that are easier than L7 to really great routines with lots of difficulty. I think its all about giving the boys a chance to showcase what they do well - especially for the boys with a few strong events and a few weak ones!

 

[profmom]

<cough cough>floor<cough cough>

 

[profmom]

So how many L8s do you guys tend to have at regionals? I just looked and last year there were about 60 competing in the 11-12 year old range. Skschlag, it sounds like your region is both very small and ridiculously hard! I'm pretty sure some guys in our region got to nationals with scores in the high 60s at regionals last year.

 

[gracyomalley]

DS did L7 this year - he has most of his L8 routines planned - and mostly As and Bs but a few Cs (vault, maybe high bar and rings, definitely floor). He says he can do over half of the L8 routines he sees at meets - but L7 has been hard for him to score high because of putting together the specific requirements quickly (was a L5 last year) (and because his coach is actually spending as much time working on L8 stuff with him as "perfecting" a L7 high bar routine he'll only do a total of 6 times ever...) He's just not "controlling his tricks" to use a stick it quote - so scores inconsistently.

I'm actually sort of hoping that my 10 year old will do a 2nd year of L6 (guarenteed) then skip to L8 at age 12 (sort of a long shot but would be easier in many ways than L7...). I'm sure it varies a great deal by region, but sounds like the coach has a plan and from what I've heard and seen it would make sense. We had one boy do 2 years of L7 - but he couldn't giant well, wasn't very strong at all and his first year was extremely unsuccessful....and your DSs gym seems to uptrain/bonus a lot, which I think is key to long term success.

 

[skschlag]

So how many L8s do you guys tend to have at regionals? I just looked and last year there were about 60 competing in the 11-12 year old range. Skschlag, it sounds like your region is both very small and ridiculously hard! I'm pretty sure some guys in our region got to nationals with scores in the high 60s at regionals last year.

Not sure at all! Can't find last year's regionals anywhere. But yes..it is tough. THe top boys are scoring 75+.

 

[profmom]

Our coach has the same view of L7 -- it really only makes sense for the guys who are totally rocking L6 but are too young for L8. If you can do L7 and you're old enough for L8, no reason not to do L8 and work around things on worse events. But wow, Gracy! -- L5 to L7 is a HUGE jump. Way harder than L6 to L8, in my opinion!

I don't see how L7 works without solid giants. That will probably determine at our gym who goes to L7 or L8 and who does more L6.

Right now, I think the only events where DS can hope for any Cs are pommels and pbars, but he doesn't have them on pbars yet. Well, I guess if that manna's working for him, that counts. DS has been doing a lot of uptraining this year, but it has all been focused on Future Stars. He wants to try it this coming year, but jumping in to compete as an 11 year old next fall who will just have completed a year at L6 is a really tall order. We'll see how it goes. If nothing else, he's having a lot of fun learning the stuff.

Ah, Skschlag, Skschlag -- a certain young man who is regularly pronounced the paragon of Future Stars and boys' gymnastics around here is in our region . . . and in my son's age group. I will feel your pain next year when DS gets to watch him rocking his second year of L8. He was very impressed and just a little horrified when the guy did tech sequences at a recent meet alongside the L6 session in which DS was competing. (I think DS's fuzzy little brain was going, "Uh, wait a minute. THAT is what I'm supposed to look like next fall?!?!!")

 

[ZJsMom]

So how many L8s do you guys tend to have at regionals? I just looked and last year there were about 60 competing in the 11-12 year old range. Skschlag, it sounds like your region is both very small and ridiculously hard! I'm pretty sure some guys in our region got to nationals with scores in the high 60s at regionals last year.

At last year's regionals, there were fewer than 20. The last place qualifying slot to Nationals was over 73. I feel like our region is small and competitive too. The top guys are among the best in the country. My ds competes against two guys who have been on Future Stars national teams, one won the FS competition a few years ago. My answer of mid to high 60s was to be in the thick of things and not embarrassingly low.

For level 8, execution counts a lot. You'll see a lot of sloppy routines, but it's the well constructed routines that cover the basics and can be executed cleanly that will go a long way. I feel like level 9 is where the top guys start creating a significant gap in difficulty. The highest scorer around here will have all of his D scores above 4. Guys with routines in the 2s just can't catch up to that no matter how clean they are.

 

[gracyomalley]

profmom - you are right - L7 doesn't work well without solid giants - but the kid I referred was not alone in doing the kind of giants my DD would have been sent back to kips with - LOL! His look lovely now as a L8, by the way...that being said our state had lots of younger L7s with atrocious giants...DS would consistently place in high bar without his back giants the first part of the season because of form and free hip to handstand, etc....now I really hope he can put it together for regionals....but he's more focused on release moves for L8!

DS the elder learned ALL of L7 this summer (after L5) - but still having trouble with putting the whole HB routine smoothly together...with his concussion and losing our pit bar not helping. His last year of L5 he should have been a 6, but they lost their coach....and he got strong and has nice form. Always ahead in tumbling and vault because of years of rec gym at a girls gym....I agree, 6-8 seems less of a jump, but in retrospect I'm glad he didn't go straight to L8...he's not shooting for college gym and too old for nationals before L10, so still has 4 years to do the next 3 levels and feel like he "completed" gymnastics....

ZJsMom - I agree about L9 - our former future star star L9 struggled this year because of less training and inexperienced coaching, so his difficulty stayed mostly 3s...and his control not so hot (that part is probably due to only practicing 2-3 days a week). First year that he wasn't right up competing for or winning 1st all the time....I can easily see my son doing L8 next year but there is a lot to learn before he'd be anywhere near a competitive L9!!!

 

[Deleted member 10727]

This has given me a lot to think about for my son. He can do another year of L6, or 2 years of L7. His giants are "coming along" according to his coach. It will really depend on what he can pull together this summer. I talked to him about doing a fantastic year of L6, and then a good year of L7 the following season. Or 1 year of so-so L7 and then a good year of L7. He says he likes the idea of doing well at L6, but he will get bored. He is doing some L8 skills on a couple of events, and he's all over the map on others.

 

[profmom]

I thought DS would be bored to tears with a second year of L5, but he used the year very effectively to strengthen fundamentals. In watching our team over the last few years, I'm coming to the conclusion that the average boy gymnast is going to be OK with a second year at a level even if the first year was pretty good. It's the third year that sours them, though I know that's not universally true. (We have two third-year L6s this year and one is clearly done with L6 but the other has made some huge strides. Both will go to 8 next year.)

 

[Deleted member 10727]

Yeah. I spoke with a veteran mother about this and she said at his age and skillset she sees no reason he can't repeat L7 twice, as he'd have to repeat every level after this anyway due to age. I don't know that she is right, but it was something to think about. In the end it comes down to what the coaches think. I trust they will know when, or if, he is ready for whatever level he does.