Coaches Coaching at an unfamiliar gym

[tumblerK]

I started coaching the level 2-3s and 4-5s at the gym by my college back in January. It's been fun and I've learned a lot, but sometimes it's still kinda frustrating.

I've never met the main coaches, and I imagine they must be pretty good coaches since the most of the girls have all their skills with awesome form.

I coach with another college student who has less gym experience but has been coaching there longer, and we recently decided to make the rule that if a girl gets caught saying "I can't" or something to that effect then they have to go stand on the vault and scream "I can" 5 times at the top of their lungs. I decided to use this rule because I'm trying not to use conditioning as a punishment so they don't learn to hate conditioning. For the first couple weeks it was fine, a couple girls have ended up on the vault and of course they don't yell as loud as they can, but they've done it.

Today I had trouble with one girl though, and I think it had more to do with the fact that her mom helps "coach". (This is the level 2-3s and the group is usually ~12-15 girls ages 6-10ish, and this gym is TINY. As in they only have 2/3 of the spring floor set up because the other third would take up the space for the two high beams and vault runway. So the gym is usually pretty packed and chaotic, so we take all the help is usually appreciative. The gym owner knows and semi encourages this mom to help.) So this girl said that she can't keep her legs straight in her dismount, so I sent her to the vault to yell "I can" 5 times. She promptly got shy and refused. I then told her she could not get off the vault or take another bars turn until she did. She cried on the vault through her turn twice and then went running to mommy. She told her daughter to get it over with and do it, and after a few more minutes of her crying told her daughter that she would stay late and work on bars with her. Argh. I was true to my word and didn't let her take a turn on bars because I am trying to get these little kids to realize that even though I'm younger than their other coaches that they have to listen and respect me too.

Then it was time for the level 4s and as there were only 3 girls today it was just me coaching. All was dandy until beam, when we were working handstands on the low beam all the way up. This girl was is ~13-14 and was consistently arching in her handstand. She said she could do them all the way up on the high beam, so went to do them up there. Surprise! They were still archy on the high beam. I had her come back to the floor and do some against the wall, still archy, but I think that was because her lovely teenager attitude kicked in. She insisted that she can't do a handstand without arching, and I sent her to the vault. She did yell, but not without getting the comment of "Ugh. Even (main coaches 1 &2) think that's a stupid rule. They just make us do pushups." At this point there was less than ten minutes left of practice, so I let her have her little teenage temper tantrum and do her archy handstands.

Argh. Should I have handled this differently, being the newer coach at the gym?

 

[ryantroop]

For me "I can't" is an open invitation to prove them wrong. Yeah, the vault thing is silly, and it shows how much more incredible impact it has than "push ups." They resent it and ridicule it because you are making them do that to themselves, and on top of that you are proving them wrong (and, in many ways, right... If they get the skill, then they "can").

Don't compare yourself to the established coaches. You are not them. They may feel that it is a waste of time because they don't follow a similar philosophy, and in all likelyhood it's because they grew up with conditioning as punishment (as most of us did to some degree).

You are doing the girls a great service. You are doing nothing wrong. If the head coaches find your rules non-productive, they would say something about it. The girls are there to learn. If they don't want to learn, and they want to act like a 3 year old, then treat them as such. Sit in a corner and watch. Remind them that they are only hurting themselves by being defiant, and that you are there to keep them safe and productive and "bad gymnastics" is not productive. Correct them, and provide drills to correct the mistakes as necessary.

To me, the oppositional defiant teenager is one that is overwhelmed and cannot make a process ro fix the issue. She may need a little individual attention to a specific need to help her overcome a fear that she is repressing due to peer pressure, or anxiety, and she is taking it out in this way. Remember, if I do something one way and I always walk away, what is my motivation to do it different? Help her find her motivation, and you will help her love the sport as much as you obviously do.

 

[gymdog]

Well, I think sometimes you have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them, so to speak. If you have a little kid who is crying out of shyness and fear, it's time to change directions. There are a few instances where I might let a kid cry it out but generally I think you need to follow your instincts and very rarely will I leave a small child to cry when we're talking about a place outside their home, etc. Of course it depends on the individual child too, whether they have a history of dramatics or use tears manipulatively, but that doesn't sound like a problem here. I do think it's a little harsh to the kids who are more shy and reserved, and also sounds somewhat disruptive to the routine. My approach with younger kids to "I can't" is to redirect them and give them other phrases to say like "I need help with this" or "I am working on this now so I can do that soon."

I typically try not to set things up in a way where a kid has to sit there doing something before they can move on. I think everyone can benefit from wiping the slate clean sometimes and it helps prevent negative patterns of interaction between individuals. Of course, I might leave a kid on a certain skill on an event, if they aren't ready to move on, but when it's time to go to bars, let's go to bars.

Perhaps you could have asked her to suggest an alternative, such as whispering her five in your ear, and see what she came up with. The real issue is positive redirection, not enforcing any one procedure. Sometimes we need to take an individual approach.

 

[coachmolly]

As a painfully shy person, I would have hated that as punishment, so I can totally see where a child who is naturally quiet or shy would be coming from. That being said, I do think something needs to be done with the "I can't" issue. It bugs me to hear such young children have that attitude. And it's hard to make special exceptions for one girl. It is better than conditioning for punishment though, so I really commend you for that. Sometimes conditioning just seems so much easier.
Maybe you could think of another option? Something that could still get the same message across but not be so traumatic for the shy kids?
As for the teenager, I think you did the best you could. As a young coach (who looks even younger), I often have a problem with teenage gymnasts showing me respect and listening to my suggestions/corrections. Combine that with those teenage temper tantrums and sometimes it makes for a frustrating situation. I think all you can do is keep encouraging her, offer corrections and drills, and just be as patient as you can. Sometimes you need to let the tantrums happen or give them some time to think about everything. When you get to know the girls better it will be easier to tell what to do with each individual when this kind of thing comes up.
It can be frustrating, but you are obviously doing just fine. The owners wouldn't have you coaching the level 4/5s, especially not by yourself, if you hadn't proven yourself as a good coach. And they certainly would have talked to you if they thought your methods were unfair. Just be confident in what you're doing. Every coach does things a little differently, so I wouldn't worry too much about being exactly like the other coaches.

 

[CoachGoofy]

I kind of love that rule, actually. Very few things are more frustrating than "I caaaaaaan't". Around here it's "It is very difficult at this time in my gymnastic progression for me to accomplish that task without assistance, and I shall give my best attempt" all in one breath. But I think I may like the vault better.

Whenever kids pull "Coach XYZ does blahblah", I ask them if I look like Coach XYZ. No? Ok then! In my class, we do ABC.

I'm honestly not sure about the little girl who cried. Teenager, though, sure.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I think its great that you are looking for innovative ways to teach the kids without using conditioning as punishment, but I do feel the this one might be a little inappropriate. To have them have to stand on top on the vault in a small gym and yell out can be very humiliating. Could you modify it to take out the humiliation factor?

 

[gymnut1]

I think its great that you are looking for innovative ways to teach the kids without using conditioning as punishment, but I do feel the this one might be a little inappropriate. To have them have to stand on top on the vault in a small gym and yell out can be very humiliating. Could you modify it to take out the humiliation factor?

Maybe you could stand up there with them and shout with them. That might take the edge off it. Also the vault is pretty high at our gym and goes into pit - the little kids wouldn't feel safe up there on their own. I love the idea though of making them say I can. Maybe at the start of each session the group could decide where to do the 'I cans' eg in a headstand/ handstand, scale on high beam, vault, inverted hang on bars, on the tramp. Vary it abit.

 

[gymdog]

I don't use conditioning for punishment either. First of all I only "punish" for behavior transgressions, not any inability to do gymnastics or fear (which is usually where "I can't" comes from). I think it's a big mistake to do otherwise. I had coaches that I would consider very strict in many ways and even then I can't remember much of the "go do 10 pushups!" that I sometimes see/hear about. Sometimes we did have to keep doing the skill, or something, but 10 pushups? That always strikes me as somewhat random.

If a child is really being a problem for me in terms of attitude or disruptive behavior, I call them over, kneel down so we're on eye level if necessary, and ask them if they need to take a break and sit out or if they can continue with their peers. Works every time for me. Yes, I do this with team as well. Every once in awhile, a kid says they need to sit out. Fine. They go sit for four minutes and come back - and we usually don't have problems. Personally I don't think saying "I can't" once warrants much reaction from me besides redirection. Sometimes making a big deal over something just reinforces a child's negative feelings.

I think Geoffrey Taucer said he decided to leave conditioning motivation more in the kid's hands than trying to constantly be on them about their attitude and motivation, and saw good results. I considered that approach at that and have found it to be good. When we do drills or conditioning, I encourage the kids about what the drill will help them do, and tell them how much improvement I've seen and how strong they're going to be getting. I encourage them to keep going when they're struggling. But I don't sit there counting numbers waiting for someone to "cheat" or things like that. If someone was finishing way too fast, then obviously the rest of the group would still be going so I'd probably suggest they should continue trying the exercise until the rest of the group is done, for example.

 

[gymcoach26]

When a child says "I can't" I don't necessarely think the first thing you should say is "You can". First I ask my kids "why not?" For every kid it is different. Some don't think they can do it because they don't feel ready, some have fear issues, others may not understand the skill etc. Listen to their reasoing first. For example, If they "can't" do a skill on high beam because they are scared of the height, than stack up mats underneath. If a kid isn't understanding the skill, go back to drills and so on. As the coach, you need to guide them in the right direction by providing feedback, reassurance, and explanation. Each situation needs to be handled differently. Even if someone where to tell me "yes you can do it" that wouldn't be very convincing. I would want to know well how can you be sure, what makes you think that etc.

 

[tumblerK]

Thanks for the advice! It does help.

Just for the record, the little girl is the very least shy girl I have ever met. I do believe it was her that jumped up on the vault to demonstrate how to yell "I can!" at the top of the vault when I first introduced the rule, which is why I was very confused when she refused. I would have just spent the next couple weeks feeling out how to approach the situation next time with her, but I'm finishing up with my first year of college in 11 days and I'll be gone from that gym for the next 4 months so I won't have much time.

 

[BlairBob]

Whether you make them do extra conditioning or make a fool of themselves, it still is a punishment.

I can't is generally considering a cuss word in gym with grievous punishments.

For bent legs, you tape a plastic straw behind their knees. You can threaten with toothpicks or nails, but the straw suffices. Good motivation to keep their knees straight. It will only work on some skills since sometimes you have to bend your knees to mount the apparatus or do a different skill.

Bare in mind, some kids may have to arch their HS if their shoulder flexion is compromised. Sometimes, spacing the hands wider may help. Not really an option on beam.

 

[gymdog]

For bent legs, you tape a plastic straw behind their knees. You can threaten with toothpicks or nails, but the straw suffices. Good motivation to keep their knees straight. It will only work on some skills since sometimes you have to bend your knees to mount the apparatus or do a different skill.

I don't really think this is appropriate advice to be given on this forum. This would never fly in ANY of the gyms I've worked in. And baseless threats that you can't follow through on (legally!) are not something I would advise in shaping the behavior of children.

Having worked with a coach that threatened, yelled, and belittled his way through coaching a group of 11-15 year old girls, it didn't really improve his results. It was just demoralizing and created serious problems that distracted from a conducive training environment. I've had other coaches who would probably be considered "harsh" in many ways but threats like this were not part of it and they yielded much better results.

The bottom line is you need to walk the line between managing training and creating an environment that is conducive to internal motivation.

 

[tumblerK]

For bent legs, you tape a plastic straw behind their knees. You can threaten with toothpicks or nails, but the straw suffices. Good motivation to keep their knees straight. It will only work on some skills since sometimes you have to bend your knees to mount the apparatus or do a different skill.

I had unsharpened pencils taped to the sides of my knees It was on bars. Don't remember what skill though. I, and all my teammates who witnessed this, found it to be quite amusing.

And then I had rulers taped to my arms for cheerleading, but that was my sister who did that to me...