Off Topic Commute

[MILgymFAM]

So, we have five months before our move from Pasadena to the Bay Area, and we are beginning to think about housing. With DDs both going to be in middle school next year we have to choose our area based on schools. DH will be stationed in San Bruno. Since we will be there only three years, buying is obviously out, so we are looking at base housing or market value rentals. Base housing options are 40,45, 65 minute commutes respectively, but none are in stellar school districts. The area around DHs work also doesn't have good schools, and is expensive. I have figured out to have affordability AND good schools he would have to endure at least a 90 minute commute. What do you all think? Make him commute (he isn't against it), give up on good schools, or give up affordability altogether? We aren't looking for much- 2bd+, 1.5ba+, so pairing down much isn't an option- although the long commute does net larger single family homes exclusively. Thanks for all opinions!

 

[mommyof1]

As a long-distance commuter, I will tell you that the amount of traffic makes a huge difference. 90 minutes sitting in stop-and-go traffic is much more exhausting than 90 minutes just driving on a clear freeway. Since you are going to be in the Bay Area, I'm guessing there will be traffic involved.

 

[kandkfunk]

Does your commute estimate include traffic or would any traffic delay be on top of the 90 minutes?

 

[MILgymFAM]

The 90 minutes was an estimate on the BART train. Driving, with traffic, could be more- I am honestly not sure. We are going up there in a couple weeks to get a feel for a few neighborhoods and run through a few drives.

 

[GymMom67]

That's a really long commute. My brother used to live in New Jersey and commuted (through NYC) to Connecticut for a while. He ended up not staying at that job all that long because it got to be too much. But he was driving. It might be better using public transportation. But I completely understand wanting to be in a good school district. That has always been our #1 priority when choosing where we live. I know that part of the country is one of the very most expensive. Good luck in making your decision!

 

[COz]

I haven't had more than a 60 minute + delay time commute personally. But I've known a few people with 90 minute commutes.

Does the train trip include changes or is it get on and get off 90 minutes later?
Has he had a commute of this length before?
Does he like the idea? Has he started thinking about things he might do on the train (showing he might even be looking forward to it a little bit).

• Trains are better than buses for long commutes. Public transport is better than driving (if the traveling time is the same).
• Public transport allows you to 'do stuff' like read a book, watch movies, play games on your phone, read email, do work, eat breakfast etc.
• Changes are more tiring than a single journey. If you're doing something then you have to put things away and get them out again once you change. It cuts down 'useful' time.

Will you ever see DH if he has a 90min commute?
Or if your DDs both do gym, does this work in well? If he gets home about the same time that gym finishes, then there's not really any lost Daddy time.

Here's some stuff that I've learnt from people happy with long term long commutes

• Family with preschool aged kids, stay at home mum. Living in small town commenting to large city. Father caught a train. He loved this. Very occasionally he'd do some work on the train. Mostly he watched videos. He enjoyed watching them uninterrupted.
• University/College students in smaller city commuting to large city. Commonly they'd sleep. They'd just get used to how long the commute took and would have a nice nap.
• Couple with no kids, living in rural area both driving long distances with little traffic to different city areas. These people had a mobile phone plan that allowed them to call each other for free. They just talked during the drive.

Here's some other thoughts. (Please bear in mind that I don't really know how the school system works in the US, so I don't know how important it is for middle school.)

• How academically minded are your DDs? Will it affect them very much if they are at a slightly less 'good' school for 3 years after which you will need to move again anyway? Or will they do well wherever they are enrolled?
• Is base housing 'nicer' than houses with a less than 40 minute commute? 40 minutes is an entirely reasonable commute length. What if you started there and then if the schools really aren't working out, you could then move and by that time have a much better idea of the area. After all, there are no guarantees about schools anyway and it's possible (hopefully not likely) that a school might not suit and you'd have to change anyway. Could happen to anyone. Moves aren't fun, but perhaps one more in there if necessary wouldn't be the end of the world. There's a big difference between 40 and 90 minutes.

Good luck with the decision. It's hard enough choosing such things without a significant move beforehand!

 

[MILgymFAM]

What a thoughtful response- thank you! The train may include changes, but may not- we are narrowing from a few distinct areas still. He actually hates the idea, but has never taken a train before I think he will quickly fall in love. I have known him since we were 12, and once he starts using his laptop and phone while commuting he will be hooked. His longest commute thus far was about 50 minutes of driving. He didn't mind that at all.

Will we see him? Probably not. We live exactly 2.5 miles, door-to-door, from his current duty station and never see him. He works average of 13 hour days including some weekends. Both DDs do gym, and we are almost always home (currently we get home between 7:15 and 8:45) before him.

My DDs are total opposites when it comes to school. One loves it, is 1st in her grade, and scored in the 75% on the ACT at 12, with invitations to begin college next year in 8th grade. Younger DD is incredibly smart but dislikes school here (didn't previously) because it's "boring". I guess for both DDs it feels like the right school is really important. One needs to keep the love and one needs to be challenged and find it. I completely get that there is more to schools than what can be seen on paper though. Currently the attend the best school in our area, by far, with great test scores and an amazing profile on paper. In reality, we have found the school lacking on a number of fronts (poor gifted program, few extra curriculars, no physical school building, etc). I absolutely want to keep them away from really bad schools, but I am undecided about mediocre. The right teachers and institutional climate may make up for a lot.

As for the housing... Well, we will see in person in three weeks, but it seems unlikely to be bigger or better. The three options cost $3300, $3100, and $2300 respectively. We can almost certainly find something similar in size for less on the market. This is an odd situation since he would have a commute even in base housing. The main draw, for us, with base housing is that there are no "start up" costs. With rents around $2500 in town, there is pretty large chunk required to move in and turn on utilities. At our current duty station there is no base housing, and we rent a tiny apartment. It is also a high cost of living area, and we have struggled the two years here to stay afloat, so I am conscious that there are benefits to both sides.

Ah. Even when I type it all out it still remains a tough call. I am really hoping that our visit up there helps crystallize some things, or at least eliminate many of the possibilities to a more manageable and researchable place.

I haven't had more than a 60 minute + delay time commute personally. But I've known a few people with 90 minute commutes.

Does the train trip include changes or is it get on and get off 90 minutes later?
Has he had a commute of this length before?
Does he like the idea? Has he started thinking about things he might do on the train (showing he might even be looking forward to it a little bit).

• Trains are better than buses for long commutes. Public transport is better than driving (if the traveling time is the same).
• Public transport allows you to 'do stuff' like read a book, watch movies, play games on your phone, read email, do work, eat breakfast etc.
• Changes are more tiring than a single journey. If you're doing something then you have to put things away and get them out again once you change. It cuts down 'useful' time.

Will you ever see DH if he has a 90min commute?
Or if your DDs both do gym, does this work in well? If he gets home about the same time that gym finishes, then there's not really any lost Daddy time.

Here's some stuff that I've learnt from people happy with long term long commutes

• Family with preschool aged kids, stay at home mum. Living in small town commenting to large city. Father caught a train. He loved this. Very occasionally he'd do some work on the train. Mostly he watched videos. He enjoyed watching them uninterrupted.
• University/College students in smaller city commuting to large city. Commonly they'd sleep. They'd just get used to how long the commute took and would have a nice nap.
• Couple with no kids, living in rural area both driving long distances with little traffic to different city areas. These people had a mobile phone plan that allowed them to call each other for free. They just talked during the drive.

Here's some other thoughts. (Please bear in mind that I don't really know how the school system works in the US, so I don't know how important it is for middle school.)

• How academically minded are your DDs? Will it affect them very much if they are at a slightly less 'good' school for 3 years after which you will need to move again anyway? Or will they do well wherever they are enrolled?
• Is base housing 'nicer' than houses with a less than 40 minute commute? 40 minutes is an entirely reasonable commute length. What if you started there and then if the schools really aren't working out, you could then move and by that time have a much better idea of the area. After all, there are no guarantees about schools anyway and it's possible (hopefully not likely) that a school might not suit and you'd have to change anyway. Could happen to anyone. Moves aren't fun, but perhaps one more in there if necessary wouldn't be the end of the world. There's a big difference between 40 and 90 minutes.

Good luck with the decision. It's hard enough choosing such things without a significant move beforehand!

 

[Flossyduck]

I used to commute 90 minutes, from one town to another. I drove it, as the additional distance from the train station at either end just made the journey the same length and I didn't fancy being stood on a busy train for all that time. On occasion, when something caused a traffic problem it could take two hours. I did that for a little over three years.

Actually I didn't mind it. I used to listen to audio books in the car and allow myself to put my brain back into domestic mode by the time I got home. I didn't work the hours your OH works though- mine was an 8-9 hour day.

I did that because we decided we didn't want to live in the town I worked in - we couldn't afford anything like the house we already lived in and couldn't afford to live near enough to good schools. My kids were settled at good schools and we liked our house, so it felt worth it.

When I changed jobs we moved to give myself and my OH an equal commute. Now that gym is in the equation it's all changed again.

Three years isn't forever whichever option you choose, and nothing is set in stone either, whichever option you choose - you can move if it doesn't work out. You can only try and do what is best for your family and be prepared to re-think if needed.

Good luck

 

[COz]

and once he starts using his laptop and phone while commuting he will be hooked. His longest commute thus far was about 50 minutes of driving. He didn't mind that at all.

If he can happily get lost in his laptop and you kind of don't see him anyway, then make him do the commute - it sounds like he'll forgive you for it It sounds like the right school is a much more important determining factor.

Both DDs do gym, and we are almost always home (currently we get home between 7:15 and 8:45) before him.

I notice you haven't mentioned commutes to gyms

My DDs are total opposites when it comes to school. One loves it, is 1st in her grade, and scored in the 75% on the ACT at 12, with invitations to begin college next year in 8th grade.

What is College grade wise? Is that University or year 11-12? Either way that's very impressive. I've only known of one person who did something similar here, attending uni at a very young age. He was truly exceptional, had no social skills (probably had Aspergers) but fortunately didn't notice he had no social skills...

The right teachers and institutional climate may make up for a lot.

You can often tell a lot about a school by their admin staff. If they're pleasant and friendly and helpful both over the phone and in person then that's a good sign of a happy school with a respectful Headmaster/mistress. Unhappy office staff take it out on the students and the staff are probably overworked and not treated well.

The three options cost $3300, $3100, and $2300 respectively.

Seems like an extra $600-$800 could go a long way, even with start up costs.

See what the schools are like. See if you can look online at school newsletters, that will help give a good feel for the tone of the school too.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I haven't mentioned commutes to gyms because I haven't found one yet. Until they can do trials and tryout for team, I have no way of narrowing gyms down. I am also checking out dance schools. Whew. Lots and lots of inputs into the decision.

 

[COz]

Instead of searching for dance schools, search for dancewear shops. Ask them about the dance schools. Particularly if they are owner operated, they will know all the schools and teachers and know if they are technical schools or not. Best to ask in person if possible, they're more likely to be forthcoming They can probably give you a shortlist to check out.

 

[magmom]

I am very late to respond to this thread. I meant to respond at the time, but lost track...sorry.

First of all, how did your visit go? Any new revelations?

Second, (and what I meant to say weeks ago)... Be careful judging schools in the Bay Area strictly by the test scores. There are definitely geographical pockets of higher achieving students (Cupertino, Palo Alto, etc.), and lower achieving simply because of the english-learner population (San Jose and surrounding). Those test scores don't necessarily reflect the teaching abilities of the schools. My personal sweet-spots were in the South Bay - Moreland, Cambrian, Campbell...probably in that order. Slightly north of there is higher-achieving (test score-wise), but much more expensive.

You will not find a decent GT/TAG program in public school in the South Bay or Pennisula It is just not in their budget. There are a few very good privates, but lack of a public GT strength is one of the reasons we moved away.

PM me if you want to chat. I have a couple public educator friends in the area (mostly Campbell and San Jose) I could hook you up with.

 

[MILgymFAM]

The trip was illuminating to be sure. We decided on base housing in Dublin. We didn't like the feel or overall cost of living in Mountain View, and our visit to the middle school in Dublin sealed the deal. It was such a fabulous environment- friendly, welcoming, and open. My girls both fell in love. Coming from the highest achieving school in our current area, and hating the place the whole time, we are ready to embrace the whole school picture. We did look at one gym while there, and it was a definite not fit. They were not even interesting in testing our girls. One not their type and one too old. They didn't compete xcel at all. As it was the only gym in Dublin, I will be broadening my search in a circle until we move. Thanks for the advice!

 

[MILgymFAM]

I wanted to add that the cheapest and most expensive options were both in mountain view. The cheapest being even smaller than our teeny apartment with zero outdoor space, and the most expensive being what we east coasters call row homes. The mid priced dublin base housing were all single family homes, perfect size for us, and that helped us decide also.