Women Compulsories

[John]

I would like to hear what others think about compulsories. I ask because where DD came from, IGC, compulsories do not exist. What is the purpose of compulsories? Is it to build the base of a gymnast? Does competing compulsories successfully really make a good optional gymnast? Does the score a ten-year-old gets in Level 5 have any correlation to the successful journey to Level 10 or College? Does a college coach care that you won a meet at level 4 when you were 10?

 

[amiandjim]

I think compulsories are good for most gymnasts because they force you to focus on basics and details on all 4 events. You cannot just play to your strengths and ignore your weaknesses. Having said that, no I do not think how you perform in compulsories matters later on and absolutely college coaches don't care what guy did in level 4!

 

[3rd_time_around]

I would like to hear what others think about compulsories. I ask because where DD came from, IGC, compulsories do not exist. What is the purpose of compulsories? Is it to build the base of a gymnast? Does competing compulsories successfully really make a good optional gymnast? Does the score a ten-year-old gets in Level 5 have any correlation to the successful journey to Level 10 or College? Does a college coach care that you won a meet at level 4 when you were 10?

They have to exist if they are competing USAG JO. Levels 4 and 5 cannot be skipped, they have to compete at least 1 time at those levels. That said, no, the scores they get at 4 and 5 do not affect their ability to be a level 10, college, or elite gymnast. It's to make sure they can compete the basic skills safely and competently before they move on to harder and more difficult skills that build on those basic skills. A back extension roll to push up position on floor (level 4) is the exact same movement as a free hip to horizontal on bars. A back extension roll to handstand on floor (level 5) is same movement as a free hip to vertical on bars.

 

[rjb123]

My DD did old four, new four and five. She is now a nine. In compulsory she did fine. She was never a 38 kid, but hit 37's a few times in new 4, and most of the time in level 5. She tended to be in the top third at meets, occasionally she would be first, but generally did reasonably well. I think that those years provided a strong foundation for her to move to optionals, and aside from just learning strong basics I think it was also helpful in learning to just compete. How to hit 4/4 events, how to move forward when you have a disaster on an event, etc. She has always been in the youngest age groups and will likely be again in level 9, so those years were helpful in growing her maturity too. She lost (a fair amount) and won (occasionally) and got to experience both ends of the sport. As she has progressed in optionals I am finding it is a bit of a new ballgame. Kids who were always number one in the lower levels have experienced their struggles and I would say that DD has had more success and some higher scores as she goes up each year. I have found it to be funny (not ha ha but funny interesting) that what were her "worst" events in the lower levels have turned into some of her stronger events now! (ahem bars and vault). I guess in the end i appreciate that she did those seasons for the skill development, and I do believe that it has contributed to her success in optionals. I think that forcing her to work on the details when she was younger (she still fairly young IMO) have helped to ingrain that in her. I do think that there is a really good purpose in doing those levels, but I am just a mom, so take it for what it is worth.

 

[Flyaway]

A back extension roll to push up position on floor (level 4) is the exact same movement as a free hip to horizontal on bars. A back extension roll to handstand on floor (level 5) is same movement as a free hip to vertical on bars.

Um. I'm not sure why I never figured that out before but you just blew my mind! I'm going to have to pass this info on to dd and see if it helps her understand the free hip a little better!

 

[raenndrops]

They have to exist if they are competing USAG JO. Levels 4 and 5 cannot be skipped, they have to compete at least 1 time at those levels. That said, no, the scores they get at 4 and 5 do not affect their ability to be a level 10, college, or elite gymnast. It's to make sure they can compete the basic skills safely and competently before they move on to harder and more difficult skills that build on those basic skills. A back extension roll to push up position on floor (level 4) is the exact same movement as a free hip to horizontal on bars. A back extension roll to handstand on floor (level 5) is same movement as a free hip to vertical on bars.

You used the old level numbers, lol. L4 and L5 BOTH go to Handstand. L3 goes to push up.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

As GAgymmom says the skills build, and they build across events. My daughter stayed 5 rather then 6 because her coach felt it would strengthen her bars. And it did.

And no, college coaches can give a hoot what you did at the lower levels. Much like the admissions board doesn't care how you did in elementary school.

It's about skill building. And of course there is much more involved in becoming a successful upper level gymnasts. There are many fabulous level 2, 3 and 4 gymnasts who never made 5. And many strong 5 & 6s who don't make 7.

 

[Aussie_coach]

It's a little like school, in the lower grades all the kids do all the subjects so they have baseline or core knowledge in which to build on. As they get older they can start to select subjects to study that suit their ability and interest, but if this done too early core knowledge can be missing.

Complusory levels are the same, gymnasts teach a baseline in ability before moving onto optional skills and selecting skills to train that suit their own personal styles.

Compulsories are also designed to save money and time. Most gyms have significantly more compulsory gymnasts than optional gymnasts. It is an expensive and time consuming process to have each one with an individually choreographed set of routines. Compulsory routines can be practised and learned together as a group. Here in Australia we used to have optional routines from level 4 onwards (our level 4 is a similar standard to your level 3). There would be a compulsory set of skills and then each gymnasts would have their own individually choreographed routines on all apparatus, with their own music incorporating these skills. This has changed in the last few years and we now have set music and routines for up to level 5. There are also set routines for level 6 but you can choose to either do the set routine or choreograph your own using the set skills. Money and time where the main reasons for the change.

I disagree that compulsory success has no bearing on later optional success. Great compulsory athletes often become great optional athletes. What is more doing well in lower level competitions will build the gymnasts confidence, which in turn leads to greater success.

In my opinion the compulsory levels are not a waste of time, but spending too long in the compulsory levels can be a waste of time. A talented kid does not need a year in each compulsory level. Repeating these levels when the gymnast is capable of the next level is also setting them back.

 

[3rd_time_around]

You used the old level numbers, lol. L4 and L5 BOTH go to Handstand. L3 goes to push up.

Oh, my! My brain still thinks of the old levels when I think of compulsories, because that is what my first 2 daughters competed, LOL! I'm glad you understood what I meant.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Um. I'm not sure why I never figured that out before but you just blew my mind! I'm going to have to pass this info on to dd and see if it helps her understand the free hip a little better!

It blew my mind as well the first time I was told this. I literally thought about it for days.

 

[John]

So what about things like a front hip circle? Or that Level 5 floor pass that looks like a wagon wheel, lol. My DD is not the most flexible, her new coach is working on that. So front walkovers etc are not always beautiful. She needs to gain more shoulder flexibility. She excels when it comes to power. You would never guess looking at these little girls the power they are able to generate. Part of me thinks optionals are better as the routines can be created to match a child's strengths. Example some kids are great twisters and others better at tucks.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I'm definitely not an expert and my dd has only competed compulsories so far (she will be competing level 5 starting next month), but I do think compulsories are important for teaching the basics, teaching good form and really providing a strong base for the optional level skills. I guess it's just a different philosophy than some gyms have though. Dd's gym believes in really focusing on perfecting the building block skills such as the back handspring, handstand, kip, etc before they begin training the higher level skills. For example, until you have a very strong kip with no bent arms and a straight tight cast, they won't let you move on to other, more advanced, bar skills. And it's not enough to have a pretty good back handspring in order to move on to the back tuck or layout, it has to be near perfect.

I understand that many gymnasts that skip levels and score out may score lower because they haven't spent the time really learning the routines and focusing on the details. But I have seen other gymnasts that score out with lower scores because they really don't have the skills that strong, but they (coaches? parents?) want them to move up anyway. They say that in optionals they can focus on their strengths and avoid the skills they have trouble with. At dd's gym, by doing compulsories, and being expected to score well there or not move up, they are really forcing the gymnasts to have all their building block skills solid and I think it sets them up nicely for the more advanced skills.

I also don't think there is a 100% correlation between scores in compulsories and scores in the upper level optionals, but do think that most girls that do very well in the lower levels and that stick with it, do tend to do well in the upper levels too. Of course there are some girls that struggled more in the lower levels and then really started excelling in the upper levels. And there are some that did well in the lower levels and not in optionals. But I have noticed that most girls that are really doing well in levels 9&10 in my state/area, also really did well when they were younger. I've clicked around on mymeetscores sometimes just out of curiosity and the ones that are placing high in level 10 generally were winning at level 4 too.

 

[John]

It is a tough sport. I watch practice sometimes after drop off. Usually just conditioning at 8-9am during the summer. DD gym has intense conditioning, like shake my head intense. The girls setup the torture and complete it with no complaints. My point is they can only be doing this because they LOVE it. So much hard work should be rewarded. That reward can not always be with the AA. So possibly a hard working good scorer's reward is the next level and the sense of accomplishment that comes from obtaining that next level.

 

[gymdoc]

Or that Level 5 floor pass that looks like a wagon wheel, lol.

This has been a lifesaver for my backwards mental block YDD - she can do all manner of "wagonwheel-y" things! - FHS-FHS, FHS-FT, FHS-FP, FHS-RO-BT/BL

 

[ayyyrial]

So what about things like a front hip circle? Or that Level 5 floor pass that looks like a wagon wheel, lol.

Usually these skills are put in because they teach something important. That level 5 pass is a drill for turning over front handsprings and for maintaining correct body shape in front tumbling skills (e.g. not pulling the head down). The front hip circle helps to get kids confident falling forwards, shifting their wrists (like for kips), and connecting skills into casts.

Scores/placements in compulsories don't 100% correlate to optionals but I don't think that means compulsories don't matter. Kids who are barely making it by in level 5 are going to struggle to get to level 7, unless something big changes for them. But there are always kids who are really successful at one level who never compete at a higher level, for whatever reason - injuries, mental blocks, they decided they want to do other things, etc.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It is a tough sport. I watch practice sometimes after drop off. Usually just conditioning at 8-9am during the summer. DD gym has intense conditioning, like shake my head intense. The girls setup the torture and complete it with no complaints. My point is they can only be doing this because they LOVE it. So much hard work should be rewarded. That reward can not always be with the AA. So possibly a hard working good scorer's reward is the next level and the sense of accomplishment that comes from obtaining that next level.

It's not about an extrinsic reward of a score or a move up a level number.

Gymnasts who get to the upper levels need much more then an extrinsic reward of a score or level number to keep going.

The reward of hard conditioning is the strength to do those harder skills. Not a level move up.

An injury, physical or mental can keep you at a level an extra year or even more. So if a gymmie is relying on the reward of a higher number. They aren't going to be able to push through that.

There are many gymmies who scored well in lower levels and moved up winning regularly, with 38s and when it got tough, the skill acquisition didn't come as quick, the podium finishes not as often. And they are done with gymnastics.

Their meetscore tracking ends abruptly at L4 or L5 or L6

 

[Ms.Pak-Man]

Usually these skills are put in because they teach something important. That level 5 pass is a drill for turning over front handsprings and for maintaining correct body shape in front tumbling skills (e.g. not pulling the head down). The front hip circle helps to get kids confident falling forwards, shifting their wrists (like for kips), and connecting skills into casts.

My biggest pet peeve is gyms using Xcel to skip perceived "useless" compulsory skills. Usually the front hip circle, stride circle, basket swing, and shoot thru are the ones cited.

My yDD never competed lower level compulsory, and never trained those skills, either. Her bars are still suffering two years later; in her case she needed those progressions to figure out how to wrist shift. You can tell a big difference at level 4 when those skills have been skipped entirely!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I would like to hear what others think about compulsories. I ask because where DD came from, IGC, compulsories do not exist. What is the purpose of compulsories? Is it to build the base of a gymnast? Does competing compulsories successfully really make a good optional gymnast? Does the score a ten-year-old gets in Level 5 have any correlation to the successful journey to Level 10 or College? Does a college coach care that you won a meet at level 4 when you were 10?

I'll start backwards,
*Does a college coach care that you won a meet at level 4 when you were 10? No college coaches don't look at that,
*Does the score a ten-year-old gets in Level 5 have any correlation to the successful journey to Level 10 or College? a score of a ten year old 5 does not correlate to being a 10, (although it only helps and if they are scoring high they have good basics so, that is very helpful to achieving success later on).
*Does competing compulsories successfully really make a good optional gymnast"? see my last answer.
*Is it to build the base of a gymnast? Yes, basics are very important and compulsories are a guide.
*What is the purpose of compulsories? You already answered that The united states has the best program in the world right now. We have proven that with better Elites and a huge population of NCAA gymnasts. . I hear other countries are starting to copy our format (at least the smart ones are).

 

[Mom2-4]

Not to hijack the thread but DD skipped L4. Her coach was new and didn't know any better. Went from L3 to competing L5. Not doing the flatback vault in L4 gave her FHS vault troubles for years. She will now compete either L8 or Diamond this year. Its not fixable she cant go back and test out now. I wonder if anyone will ever notice? First year L5 was a bear from L3 fun meets.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Not to hijack the thread but DD skipped L4. Her coach was new and didn't know any better. Went from L3 to competing L5. Not doing the flatback vault in L4 gave her FHS vault troubles for years. She will now compete either L8 or Diamond this year. Its not fixable she cant go back and test out now. I wonder if anyone will ever notice? First year L5 was a bear from L3 fun meets.

The handstand flatback is now level 3 and it was 4, so I assume you are talking about the old levels. In that time, I believe level 5 was the first required level. So no troubles for you!