Coaches Crooked BHS

[gymisforeveryone]

One of my gymnasts have started to turn sideways in her back handspring, i.e her hands are not on the same line but one is about 10 cm more forward. I hadn't notice this earlier, I noticed it during summer when she started to work on RO BHS-BHS-BHS and RO-BHS-BT. Her feet are not crooked, only her hands. This is something that I think I cannot fix without help, especially when she is very frustrated about this and very upset I make her work on single BHS instead of 3 what is something she CAN do but with upper body twisted each time. When she focuses really hard she can do a standing BHS from mini tramp hands parallel but only maybe 30% of time. I usually make her chalk her hands and then see where they were because she says she has no idea if the BHS is crooked or not.

Have you had kids like this? What could help her? The kid is very upset about this.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Here is a VIDEO link if it helps : https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tl08ccswsij1s5/CROOKED.AVI?dl=0

 

[Sari]

I've seen gymnasts do that in a BHS, and had the exact same problem with my FHS.

What helped me was actually drawing a chalk line on the floor for orientation. Maybe work her standing BHS like that? In the video, she also doesn't quite place her left hand correctly during the roundoff and lands with her feet apart and one foot already a little a little farther back than the other. That might be triggering her crookedness.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Thanks Sari!

I think drawing a line would be a good idea. The problem is that when she lands her BHS her feet are parallel so she THINKS it was straight. She says she has no time to think about her hands when she's upside down.

Here is an another vide. She's doing RO BHS-BT and it's not pretty, I know, this was one of her first tries by herself without spotter and on hard floor. But it shows how crooked she is again and how it seems to affect on her BT also.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0u63bekmpfzbmzj/VID-20140806-WA0004.mp4?dl=0

 

[gymjunkie]

She probably also does that in her bridge stretch. I would fix it there. I always make kids bridge up with their hands on a straight line. If I don't, they always have one hand in front of the other.

 

[Sari]

Yeah, just start working the parallel hands on some more basic skills. Then slowly increase the difficulty of skills you're applying this to once your gymnast does the easier skills correctly - and consistently! If she can keep her hands in the right place during a bridge stretch, have her do backbends. Same end position but less time to think about what she's doing.

Another idea I just had requires a second person spotting but might teach her the body awareness she's semingly lacking when doing her BHS. My coaches do this sometimes. Work a standing BHS and catch her in the middle of it, in the air, well before her hands touch the floor. Then adjust her body shape in case she was going sideways, or let her try herself, as she appears to be a little older! Takes the speed out of the skill so she has time to think about form.

It's hard to see where exactly the crookedness comes into the skill from the videos' point of view, because you're watching from one side. If it weren't for her hands and feet, I wouldn't even have noticed she was crooked!

 

[BlairBob]

Is she trying to look over her dominant shoulder. If this is the case, you tell her to look for the other shoulder.

The way I've fixed this is typically with a lot of hands-on spotting.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Sari and BlairBob, I will try your suggestions today with her! Really good ideas that didn't come to my mind at all!

 

[iwannacoach]

I don't think there's a problem with her bhs, but more a balance issue. It looks like she's staying on her left hand while she turns to face where she came from. That means she sags through her left side instead of pushing through her left side to make finish the turn with repulsion. Have her drill round offs by falling away from her left foot to her right foot from a 10cm height into a completed round off. The fall will give her just enough energy to make it through the skill using the momentum from the fall, and that will allow her to concentrate on kicking her back leg to create the L/A turn and leave her in a good posture to push (like a Tsuk vault) with her second hand.

Have everyone do this because they all will get a better round off.

Add a bhs and then a bhs-bhs-back salto, and then have kids with the best results try a fall round off-bhs-back salto. After doing these for a session you'll be surprised at what happens when they run into them, and so will they (the kids), so warn them to get their hands up and ready for the floor because it comes faster than they will expect.

 

[Kiwi]

Have her drill round offs by falling away from her left foot to her right foot from a 10cm height into a completed round off.

Iwannacoach, can you please clarify this drill, each foot and hand goes where? Do you mean the left foot is up 10cm and the right foot isn't?

 

[iwannacoach]

Have this girl stand on an 8-12cm block/folding panel mat. Balance on left leg with right foot raised just below hip high, arms straight over head head with her body locked tight into the position. Fall straight forward while holding the shape until the front foot is on the floor or until the kid freaks out and has to round off/ Concentrate on kicking the back leg straight up while pushing off with the right foot. Nothing else moves..... it all stays locked into place during the round off until she blocks with her left hand.

 

[titanic]

I had the girl with the same problem. My diagnosis of the issue was that she wasn't reaching back far enough (same diagnosis as what usually happens on staggered FHS). It took about a week to fix the problem, and we had her do them on the trampoline with a line far behind her that she had to reach for, as well as tons of hand spotted where I basically threw her back as far as I could until she got used to it.

Also, one of the other reasons my gymnast had this problem was that she only stretched needles on one side at her house, so her bridge was a bit uneven. Make sure if they stretch needles or anything on their own time, they stretch both sides. I had her do a bunch on her bad leg to even it up as well.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate your input on this!

I'm not sure if I understood what Iwannacoach was saying, English isn't my first language so I have hard time understanding some terms. Are you saying she basically does a round of fdown from 10 cm high surface? What exactly is the problem with her RO? I see her second hand is turned outward and think that is a problem, and her RO doesn't actually go on line if we draw one on the floor. When I make her turn her hand more inward she complains wrist pain and her RO looks just horrible, she cannot block in that position (she says) which seem very abnormal to me....

At firs I thought it was her round off and her hand placement in it that caused the problem but then I saw her go crooked on simple BHS from trampoline also, so she did the same mistake in her BHS without the RO which I thought was the problem. I'm not saying her RO is perfect at all but it seems like it's not the only problem here. Am I right?

We didn't do floor today because the girls were absolutely exhausted. They had 2 hours morning practice today (from school, they go to sports school), then 45 minutes of dance and 2,5 hours of gym during night. They are not used to this so we only did some not so hard conditioning, strap bar work and beam.

 

[Sari]

She shouldn't just turn her hand in during her roundoff (ouch!), but - in a perfect world, lol - reach her hand over far enough, using her shoulder flexibility, so that her hands are next to each other, much like in a BHS, the only difference being that one hand is turned the opposite way. But no, I agree the roundoff definitely isn't the only problem here!

I'm assuming iwannacoach meant this: Use a raised surface (a stack of mats would work just fine), and let your gymnast do roundoffs off that mat. Since she's a righty (does skills with her right leg in front), have her start on her left leg ON the raised surface and land on her dominant / right foot on the floor, performing a roundoff. The idea behind this is that she can concentrate more on the skill (kicking her back leg up, placing her hands correctly) because she doesn't have to worry about getting momentum during the roundoff.

I sort of noticed you weren't speaking English in the videos. What language is that? It's beautiful!

 

[HunterBennett]

I have watched the videos of her about a million and a half times (and i am not exaggerating) and it looks like when she reaches back for the back handspring that the shoulder of the arm that is the furthest back is actually not in the shrugged position and so wouldn't allow for a great block off of that arm but would also not make the arm go all the way back to where it should be. The videos are at a bad angle to test that from but it does look to me like that is the case. And about her getting upset you have to tell her that you are her coach and you are doing that to better her tumbling and to better herself as a gymnast. Set the rules that you are the leader and you decide what is right.

 

[iwannacoach]

.....I'm assuming iwannacoach meant this: Use a raised surface (a stack of mats would work just fine), and let your gymnast do roundoffs off that mat. Since she's a righty (does skills with her right leg in front), have her start on her left leg ON the raised surface and land on her dominant / right foot on the floor, performing a roundoff. The idea behind this is that she can concentrate more on the skill (kicking her back leg up, placing her hands correctly) because she doesn't have to worry about getting momentum during the roundoff...

Quite well said Sari.

The following snips show some elements of her round off that could be improved upon to allow her to block into the push up/snap down with less or no pain in her wrist.

Side turn is coming from her arms and shoulders while she drags her kicking leg behind her. The turn should originate with the kick leg forcing the hips out of square to initiate a turn that takes the entire body into the turn. Try holding onto a balance beam while kicking a leg up to it's limit behind you to feel the amount of turn that gets generated from a powerful kick.

.

Looks like a good position but when looking at the next snip it seems she's not arriving to the handstand ready to push off.

The lack of block may be due to her sore wrist, but her wrist may be sore because it's bearing weight over a 45-55 degree arc with her weight constantly shifting/grinding from her thumb the the outer edge of her hand. Maybe the chicken did come before the egg???? It seems her lower body/legs are dragging her upper body off the floor, and that means she has no balance forward, backward, or to either side. In her case the left side isn't being supported and balanced with her right side, so while one side (her right) has support and the other doesn't, the supported side works the skill and the non supported side lags behind because it has no balance, no support, and no energy.......

looks like her left side is dropping

Still dropping

Right side moves with more energy than the left.


Or so it seems to me.