WAG Discussion of abuse in USAG - Nassar

[GymFan96]

If the staff at the ranch are to be blamed, then some of the parents are as well. Many people on here want to vilify Márta and Bela but don't care about the fact that MOTHERS sat in the room as Nassar was assaulting their child and didn't notice!

Statement in PEOPLE Magazine from Rachael Denhollander:

“He would position himself in between my mom and I, so I could not see where his hands were,” says Denhollander, who trained at a gym in her Kalamazoo, Michigan, hometown. “That was the dynamic that kept me quiet because I didn’t realize she couldn’t see.” “The idea that someone could be sexually assaulting me for 30 minutes at a time while holding a conversation with my mother, nobody thinks that’s what assault looks like.”

This girl's mother missed the signs and no one is accusing her of "protecting" Nassar. But if a COACH had been in the room while this happened, they'd probably be in jail right now. People need to realize how sneaky predators can be.

 

[bookworm]

If the staff at the ranch are to be blamed, then some of the parents are as well. Many people on here want to vilify Márta and Bela but don't care about the fact that MOTHERS sat in the room as Nassar was assaulting their child and didn't notice!

Statement in PEOPLE Magazine from Rachael Denhollander:
This girl's mother missed the signs and no one is accusing her of "protecting" Nassar. But if a COACH had been in the room while this happened, they'd probably be in jail right now. People need to realize how sneaky predators can be.

As a parent who sent her kids to the Ranch, with their coaches , and I did accompany them at times ( but had to stay in the hotel in Conroe or the Woodlands at night because that was the procedure back then) , I take a HUGE ISSUE with this statement. Marta and Bela vouched for Nassar and were more privy to the daily goings on at the Ranch and even in many gyms than a regular old gym parent would be. I don't need you to blame me for potentially putting my girls at risk...neither one was touched....but I was horrified when I asked my daughter "did Larry visit you in the cabins and she answered 'yes, but I was never hurt so I didn't need to go out and see him'"....don't think I don't know we dodged a bullet that some of our friends didn't ...but please stop the victim blaming of the gymnasts and their parents...it is not helpful or necessary.

 

[John]

@strawberries I like your post. I do appreciate Dunno for the advice he freely gives.

But, I also know that there is a difference between incompetence and being a child sexual predator. There is a difference between doing a dreadful job at setting up culturally normal protective measures for children, and being a rapist. There is a difference between being ignorant, oblivious, incompetent, stupid, absurdly optimistic, reckless and irresponsible, and actually pulling a lever that is labeled, “this will cause a child to be sexually molested.”

I agree with everything you say including the above quote. My problem is that USAG did exhibit everything you mentioned and if most of us showed any of these attributes at our careers we would indeed be in search of a new career.

 

[strawberries]

My only comment in regards to your post, Strawberries, is that Dunno often speaks as if he speaks for USAG and that he is affiliated in a greater way that he actually is, and I don't like the misrepresentation. His assertions don't mean that everyone one of his comments are accurate and backed up by fact in this case. It doesn't mean that he is someone who speaks for USAG in any official capacity despite positioning himself that way. It is that characterization (which he won't deny or confirm) in combination with his absolute denials of things that I know through personal connection to be absolutely true, that is extremely irritating.

I never like it when people misrepresent, name drop, overemphasize their position or influence. As a personality trait, it is a pet peeve of mine. I had never gotten that vibe from Dunno particularly. He always struck me as understated, but I have no inside knowledge.

 

[Taxidriver]

I don't need you to blame me for potentially putting my girls at risk

I’m not sure if @GymFan96 is blaming the parents, (I certainly hope she’s not anyway) I think they were trying to say that if parents were in the same room when abuse took place and they didn’t notice then it is possible that Marta and Bela didn’t see Nassar for who he truly is.
As I’ve said before sexual predators are often well liked and respected individuals who are very good at disguising the truth and fooling those around them hence how they get away with it for so long.
Who knows who knew or suspected what only those individuals truly know the truth.

 

[strawberries]

As a parent who sent her kids to the Ranch, with their coaches , and I did accompany them at times ( but had to stay in the hotel in Conroe or the Woodlands at night because that was the procedure back then) , I take a HUGE ISSUE with this statement. Marta and Bela vouched for Nassar and were more privy to the daily goings on at the Ranch and even in many gyms than a regular old gym parent would be. I don't need you to blame me for potentially putting my girls at risk...neither one was touched....but I was horrified when I asked my daughter "did Larry visit you in the cabins and she answered 'yes, but I was never hurt so I didn't need to go out and see him'"....don't think I don't know we dodged a bullet that some of our friends didn't ...but please stop the victim blaming of the gymnasts and their parents...it is not helpful or necessary.

Victim blaming is terrible. I’m not sure if that was GymFan’s main point. As a mom who did sit in the room with Larry, but not enough times that anything happened, I am also keenly aware of the dodged bullet. I took the point of GymFan96’s post to be more a defense of the coaches who didn’t notice what was happening, rather than a blaming of the mother. I thought he was emphasizing how persuasive Larry was, and that the coaches were being held to an impossible standard if even the gymnasts own mothers (being presumably their biggest protectors, with the best radar) couldn’t see past his charm. Having met the guy, I don’t think any of us, if we had been in the coaches’ shoes would have noticed any more than they did.

 

[txgymfan]

I still think USAG was negligent simply by having him alone in sleeping areas, hotel rooms with athletes. Yes, he also did it in front of parents but it still was negligent in my mind.

 

[gymdog]

Forgive the length

There are so many things in this thread I want to comment on and I hardly know where to start. Everything is just so heartbreaking, and the kids are so young and I can hardly wrap my head around any of it.

My first impulse is to want to come in and fire everybody associated with USAG, and burn down their whole d*** program with the leadership inside.

But, I also know that there is a difference between incompetence and being a child sexual predator. There is a difference between doing a dreadful job at setting up culturally normal protective measures for children, and being a rapist. There is a difference between being ignorant, oblivious, incompetent, stupid, absurdly optimistic, reckless and irresponsible, and actually pulling a lever that is labeled, “this will cause a child to be sexually molested.”

I just want to point out that most coaches are very good people who care deeply about children. Most USAG coaches were genuinely fooled by Larry Nassar. Most of them were not covering for him. They were fooled. There was not some grand conspiracy to protect the USAG institution over protecting the children.

I do not represent USAG in any way and I have no inside knowledge, but I do know some of the coaches and I know a lot of gymnastics coaches in general, and they are, for the most part good, decent people. Could they have done better at setting up an environment to be protective? Of course! (Enormous understatement!!). They all missed really important stuff. The parents who sent their kids to the ranch or who sat in the room with Larry when he did his thing missed it too. They would all do it differently if they had the chance.

I know we all want someone to blame but these guys are not in the same category as Larry. Dunno is not in the same category as Larry. I don’t know Dunno personally, but I know him through years and years of advice, help, wisdom, kindness, generosity on this board. All of this for years was given freely, anonymously and way below his pay grade.

Also, nearly all of his advice was made on the side of the well-being of the children, even when it ruffled coaches’ feathers, even when it insulted parents, he virtually always took the kid’s side. Whether it was telling coaches to back off b/c “it is vestibular!” Or telling parents to back off b/c “you will burn your kid out if you don’t stop watching every second of practice and interrogating your kid about it.” He has never been a guy who took the party line or who said the right thing to make himself look good. I don’t think he is doing that for USAG now, but I do think he is trying to correct the misinformation when he hears it. Would you rather he was silent? I don’t understand quite how the ride turned on him.

I know we want someone to blame, but I don’t feel comfortable standing by and watching things turn against Dunno like this and not speaking. I don’t know what he could be doing differently at this point. Yes, there are huge apologies that should be made by USAG, maybe enormous ones, but there are some things left in the world that they don’t have to apologize for. It seems acceptable for Dunno to point those out. I personally would like to be corrected if I accuse them of something that is simply false.

I’m sorry for this novel. I just think a great deal of Dunno (again I only know him like most of you, anonymously through this board) and I needed to stand up for him.

I don't have a problem with dunno at all, but I do think at this point accurate information would be helpful and it isn't very helpful to claim that things are false or weren't said if they are. There was at one time a sense that some victims were complaining, misinterpreting, causing trouble. It would most helpful right now to strongly avoid giving off that sense. There is a reason I didn't use a name specifically in my posts that could be searched because I do hope there was a misunderstanding with that allegation. Regardless, it has been made, and not just casually on the Internet or in a text message or something. I think denying it was made isn't really going to help but if there is supporting evidence to suggest that couldn't have happened it would be helpful to lay it out that way.

What I will say is that we already know in at least one other instance this abuse happened with another adult in the room in such a way that it was able to be concealed (the mother of a victim) despite seemingly being in plain view.

 

[z2akids]

I know Dunno irl, he is in a position to speak for USAG.

While I doubt neither Dunno's implication of knowledge nor your confirmation, I am fairly certain that USAG's lawyers would be horrified to learn that an extreme insider was commenting on a public forum with regard to active lawsuits.

 

[bogwoppit]

While I doubt neither Dunno's implication of knowledge nor your confirmation, I am fairly certain that USAG's lawyers would be horrified to learn that an extreme insider was commenting on a public forum with regard to active lawsuits.

Let me clarify. Dunno is 'connected' to the USAG staff, so he is privvy to their conversation. I did not mean he was an official spokesperson, or on the legal team. So him making suppositions, is as valid as any other member making them. I should have used better words.

 

[profmom]

Based on what he has said he CAN'T say, I am sure he understands well where the line is and is taking care not to cross it.

I think it is also hard to understand what it's like to be in the center of a lawsuit if you've never experienced it. The adversarial system requires the production of a narrative either of blame or denial of blame and induces the refinement and strengthening of that narrative over the course of litigation. Because you are literally fighting with the other side, you have no incentive, even if you're just observing and not participating in the construction of the narrative, to use the information revealed to update your own narrative in ways that undermine it. Rather, you assimilate the new information you receive only in ways that reinforce your own narrative.

 

[suebee]

I remember when I was a young child being taught that the only people who should look at your “private parts” are your parents and your doctor.

So yes, I think doctors get a lot more benefit of the doubt and trust than most other people. And it is very clear to me that Larry Nassar was quite cunning in his abuse, in that he disguised it as a medical treatment, and many of his victims were not aware until much later that this was abuse and not medical treatment.

I think that had USAG policies been different/stronger, like some of the ones that are now in place (or proposed - not sure), Larry Nassar may have had fewer opportunities for abuse. But I am fairly confident that he would have still been able to abuse and still would have done so. He abused athletes at MSU and even family friends, due to the trust people had of him due to his position as a doctor and one considered to be an expert.

It seems to me that USAG is saying Larry is a monster, but we didn’t know, and we couldn’t have stopped him, so we are not to blame. Legally, I suppose this is their best defense.

But I think the parents and gymnasts are focused on USAG’s role in how they didn’t do everything possible to protect the safety of their gymnasts. And USAG is not directly admitting or acknowledging that (although they made some policy changes, which implies that more could have been done) and that is where the divide is.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

Has anyone else seen this yet?

Link Removed

 

[Seeker]

Yes — there is a separate thread about it.

 

[GymFan96]

Bookworm I'm definitely not victim blaming or parent-blaming. I was just pointing out how highly skilled at deception Nassar was. Yes the staff were wrong for letting him be alone with the athletes, but it was missed even on occasions when a third party was there. I'm not saying USAG is blameless but I disagree with the people saying they HAD to have known.

 

[Fijiwater]

I know Dunno irl, he is in a position to speak for USAG.

Bog swoops in like Batman! BAM!

 

[TumbleTimes4]

This is heartbreaking. I’m glad McKayla has a different attorney that seems to focusing on what’s in her best interest instead of only focusing on the financial gain.

http://www.espn.in/olympics/gymnast...ney-keep-larry-nassar-abuse-quiet-lawyer-says

 

[bogwoppit]

It is appalling. The whole thing makes me sick.

 

[duyetanh]

It is appalling. The whole thing makes me sick.

Me as well. I cant "like" your post....but am in complete agreement with you!!!

 

[Muddlethru]

This is heartbreaking. I’m glad McKayla has a different attorney that seems to focusing on what’s in her best interest instead of only focusing on the financial gain.

http://www.espn.in/olympics/gymnast...ney-keep-larry-nassar-abuse-quiet-lawyer-says

In contingency cases, the lawyer gets a very large portion of the award settlement. Depending on what was initially negotiated upon retaining the attorney, it is common for attorneys to ask 40-50% of the award settlement. Some use a sliding scale; the attorney gets 20% if case is settled within a few months; goes to 30% after discovery and if it goes to trial, they've been known to ask 60%. That said, Gloria Allred has a strong history of advocating (and representing) for women's rights. Additionally, she has attained a high level of financial success so monetary gain may likely not be the motivator. She is also alleged to have been raped at gunpoint but did not report the incident. Maroney is still very young and potentially was still afraid of the repercussions of coming forward; hence the settlement. Nonetheless, Maroney coming forward with her abuse now, albeit difficult, may be a step in the right direction for her so that she can start healing.