WAG Div I NCAA Walk-On Offer Info

[Mrs. Puma]

Seriously: You should write an e-book and self-publish it on Amazon. You'd make lots of money, and people would have a source of badly needed information. I'd buy that book in a heartbeat.

Good plan!! I just hope I need such a book someday!!! Lol

 

[dennison]

It could be called College Gym Confidential...and you are correct, a source of badly needed information....if we had known one tenth of what we now know about the school my daughter committed to, I never would have ever let her even look at the place, never mind go there....the fact is, there was no way to route out the info back then...even when we went there, talked to people ( and make no mistake, you need to talk to people who are no longer at the school and have been through that program to get the real skinny), they all spouted the party line.....as did the other schools we visited. Sadly, after being there , we realized how truly awful these people are, and there's not much you can do then as it's tough to get them out with all the regs on transfers and such. That I didn't figure this out until too late is one of my biggest parental regrets....

Bookworm, don't you have two gymnast daughters? Did you go through this process with both? If yes, was it any less painful with the second given your family's past experience?

 

[Deleted member 16936]

I have first-hand experience with this process. An "offer" to walk-on to a team received prior to the spring of her senior year is, for all intents and purposes, useless. I am being blunt here for a reason; DO NOT stop other college search activities based on this "offer". Most (if not all) D1 gymnastics teams make their walk-on offers only after they know how much room will be left on the team after the scholarship athletes accept or decline enrollment; this doesn't happen until the spring of the senior year. You also need to be aware that a walk-on athlete is responsible for paying (or securing payment outside the athletic department) 100% of the cost of attendance at that school. You also need to be aware that the ability of a walk-on athlete to secure an athletic scholarship in later years is not something that you should bank on.

My recommendation is that she find a school that she really wants to attend because they have the academic environment and program that she can thrive in; if they have gymnastics that is a bonus. Remember, being an outstanding gymnast won't get a student admitted to a college; they have to meet the academic requirements first. Being a walk-on athlete can be a very costly undertaking so the school had better have the undergraduate program that she really wants before you pay the bill.

Good luck.

Totally agree, she is only interested in schools that have the major she wants. But I am confused on a couple of your other comments. First she was on the shortlist for the last spot left on a team for 2017. The position was given to someone else and she was offered a walk-on spot. I understand that the girls the school committed for 2017 can only commit verbally because they are too young to officially commit and the same would be true of my daughter if she accepted the walk-on offer. Its just a verbal agreement that either party can change at any time. So is there something wrong with them making the walk-on offer to my daughter? The only thing I can think of was if any of the verbal agreements fell through and she already agreed to walk-on they would not offer the slot to her because she already agreed to walk- on. The other question is that you mentioned that she would have to pay 100% of her tuition and would have to secure financing outside of athletics. Are you just saying that she would have to pay tuition and get financial aid, loans etc. just like any other non-scholarship student - or is there something more to that point that I am missing?

 

[bookworm]

Bookworm, don't you have two gymnast daughters? Did you go through this process with both? If yes, was it any less painful with the second given your family's past experience?

Yes it has been" less painful " the second time around because there were schools I ruled out from the get go based on what I now know about their coaching staff and the culture on campus etc.... one school lobbied our coaches heavily but with what I know and talking to gymnasts in their program, I didn't even entertain it at all and made no apologies about it... we were "promised" it would be different but once bitten, twice shy so I stood my ground on it. Fingers crossed for round two!

 

[ZJsMom]

It could be called College Gym Confidential...and you are correct, a source of badly needed information....if we had known one tenth of what we now know about the school my daughter committed to, I never would have ever let her even look at the place, never mind go there....the fact is, there was no way to route out the info back then...even when we went there, talked to people ( and make no mistake, you need to talk to people who are no longer at the school and have been through that program to get the real skinny), they all spouted the party line.....as did the other schools we visited. Sadly, after being there , we realized how truly awful these people are, and there's not much you can do then as it's tough to get them out with all the regs on transfers and such. That I didn't figure this out until too late is one of my biggest parental regrets....

Wow. This really is sobering. I've actually never heard anyone who had personal experience with college gym say anything other than "it's the greatest experience ever." Is your dd's issue mainly the time commitment and unreasonable expectations of student athletes? What questions exactly do you wish you would have asked?

 

[bookworm]

Wow. This really is sobering. I've actually never heard anyone who had personal experience with college gym say anything other than "it's the greatest experience ever." Is your dd's issue mainly the time commitment and unreasonable expectations of student athletes? What questions exactly do you wish you would have asked?

Yeah and that had been our experience too..."everyone LOVED it."...and the issue isn't the time commitment or the expectations of the student athlete, it's that the coaches are horrible coaches who don't want to be there coaching the team, they're nasty as the day is long, it's a negative punishing environment, they pit the girls against each other, fat shaming, training them into the ground with " voluntary" sessions, threatening scholarships from day 1, kids disappearing off the roster for " medical" issues that other schools probably would have managed, they NEVER do anything fun as a team ( you know how you see teams on instagram having cookouts, going on a camping trip, white water rafting, apple picking, pool party etc... not this team, it's like the coaches can't stand to be around them!).....just a whole lot of negativity that we didn't sign up for and I can tell you, it gets old quickly...and 4 years is a looong time .....my daughter loves the actual school but the gymnastics part and the negatives associated with it, we never saw it coming. The stress of the whole experience has not been worth it in my book.....

 

[Deleted member 16936]

Yeah and that had been our experience too..."everyone LOVED it."...and the issue isn't the time commitment or the expectations of the student athlete, it's that the coaches are horrible coaches who don't want to be there coaching the team, they're nasty as the day is long, it's a negative punishing environment, they pit the girls against each other, fat shaming, training them into the ground with " voluntary" sessions, threatening scholarships from day 1, kids disappearing off the roster for " medical" issues that other schools probably would have managed, they NEVER do anything fun as a team ( you know how you see teams on instagram having cookouts, going on a camping trip, white water rafting, apple picking, pool party etc... not this team, it's like the coaches can't stand to be around them!).....just a whole lot of negativity that we didn't sign up for and I can tell you, it gets old quickly...and 4 years is a looong time .....my daughter loves the actual school but the gymnastics part and the negatives associated with it, we never saw it coming. The stress of the whole experience has not been worth it in my book.....

ZJsMom had a great question for you - she asked What questions exactly do you wish you would have asked?

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

Regarding the $45k tuition, does the school offer merit scholarships? How are your DD's grades/test scores? I have my oldest (former gymnast not doing any sport) in a school now which does not offer merit in her program of study and I have found hat $40k is more like $42-43k when you add on major specific fees and supplies. So if your DD has a major in mind, good to consider what other expenses may lurk.

That said, other DD (gymnast) has visited a couple of schools which do offer lots for merit, especially to out of state students. I would not discard those as options, in case she ends up deciding not to do college gym. In the end, it's about the academics and future when college gym ends in a few years. Also good to ask if offered an athletic scholarship, how any merit monies might come into play towards the full package.

 

[bookworm]

ZJsMom had a great question for you - she asked What questions exactly do you wish you would have asked?

"what questions do I wish I would have asked?" ...well I could write a book on that but let me try for the Reader's Digest version...to start, looking back I think we asked all the right questions and talked to as many people as we thought would have the info we needed to make an informed decision at that time but in the end , it wasn't enough...and make no mistake, these schools and coaches are masters at selling their programs and their schools...they come into your home, eat dinner with you, tell you how they want your kid because she's the best thing since sliced bread, tell you they "understand as a parent how hard this decision is" to send your kid away to school but we'll "take care of her"...they say all the right things, and then when you find out otherwise, it is a stinging betrayal, my friends....it makes you distrust everyone IN college gymnastics and you see them all as liars , until they prove otherwise. I probably have a jaded view of it now but it's not without foundation, and I encourage you all to explore every avenue before you allow your kid to sign with anyone.

These are some of the questions I asked the second time around, and I prefaced it with, "we have dealt with some craziness in my older daughter's experience and are not looking for a repeat...I will be asking many more questions than the average recruit's parents"....not all of these scenarios apply to us but I kept hearing horror stories so I asked about them:

1. Can you give us a list of former athletes and their parents that I can speak to about you and your program?
2. do you weigh your girls ever? and If so, how often and with what purpose? Are they weighed in front of the whole team and are the #s posted for all to see? Do you track what girls ingest with food diaries?
3. Do you give out your gear to all the team? and when? and what would be a reason a gymnast would not get her gear?
4. How many girls travel? and why wouldn't they?
5. Who coaches what event? what type of coaching philosophy do you have here...are you yellers or not, do you punish for a missed series or something similar? Is their a lifting or running component to your workouts?
6. what is your retention rate year to year of your athletes? do you redshirt an injured athlete or do you just medically retire them? Do you allow athletes to access PT and athletic trainers if they need to or does that all have to run through the coaching staff for approval? Who does your medical team (AT, PTs) answer to...the coaches or actual medical people? Do you adjust workouts for girls returning from injury? Have you ever medicalled anyone at their first physical?
7. Do you have a discipline policy and is it used? ( because if it isn't used, it's useless...)
8. Are gymnasts "required" to stay for the summer to do "voluntary" workouts? Do you take attendance at voluntary workouts? If they do stay, is there summer funding? If they go home, do you send a program home for them to try to do?
9. What were some of the "fun" things you did as a team last year, and I don't mean things like required community service? Do you have team bonding events or do you feel that that is not the role of the college coach?

I also said to these coaches up front, "if you're into craziness and punitive gymnastics, that's fine but we're not interested and we'll move on" ...to me , Numbers 1 and 9 could kind of give me a glimmer of how the rest would be answered...and I had one coach flat out refuse to answer #1 saying she didn't want to "prejudice me' and that ended it right there. There were some schools we didn't even entertain because I knew the answers to these questions and even though they denied it, I wasn't risking it. I can't emphasize doing your homework and trusting your gut enough...

 

[MeetDirector]

... So is there something wrong with them making the walk-on offer to my daughter? The only thing I can think of was if any of the verbal agreements fell through and she already agreed to walk-on they would not offer the slot to her because she already agreed to walk- on. The other question is that you mentioned that she would have to pay 100% of her tuition and would have to secure financing outside of athletics. Are you just saying that she would have to pay tuition and get financial aid, loans etc. just like any other non-scholarship student - or is there something more to that point that I am missing?

Stormy - No, there is nothing wrong with a walk-on offer; just realize what it is and when these "offers" are normally put into place and what they really bring with them. In other words, eyes wide open. As I said, a walk-on athlete gets no athletic-based financial aid; so, yes a walk-on athlete will be responsible for footing their own cost of attending the school. This can, of course, be offset by other merit or need-based aid of any kind.

The key in this whole college athletic recruiting business (yes, it is a business) is to do your homework. Parents need to understand the NCAA rules (USAG has a spot that is a good starting point); parents and athletes need to understand what they are really looking for and what would make or break a decision. For example, when you visit a school and see the training facilities does it feel like someplace you could train or is it someplace that you would dread training every day (we saw both in our visits)? You need to understand the mindset of a college coach; it is not the same as a club coach and that could result in a less than desirable environment. Information is key to getting through this and you have to start early; you can't pull all of this together at the last minute.

 

[rjb123]

Just curious- you said that the mindset of a college coach is not the same as a club coach- can you elaborate a little? We are a long way from even worrying about this- DD is only a 7, and in 4th grade- so not on my radar at all!! It is interesting to hear about it though!

 

[bookworm]

Just curious- you said that the mindset of a college coach is not the same as a club coach- can you elaborate a little? We are a long way from even worrying about this- DD is only a 7, and in 4th grade- so not on my radar at all!! It is interesting to hear about it though!

The college coaches see it as all business, and they need to win to stay in their position...in our experience with college and club coaches, it has been night and day...my daughter was coached by tough Eastern Europeans but her college coaches make the JO guys look like cream puffs. College coaches will say anything to a gymnast versus a club coach that would have to answer to a parent for nasty and negative comments on a regular basis. Meet Director is correct when she says the mindset of the college coach can result in a less than desirable environment...

JO coaches also have a business but they have other ways to make it up if you take your business elsewhere with things like their rec programs...college sports is a big, and sometimes ugly, business, even in a non-revenue sport like gymnastics ...

 

[rgmom]

Wow! Bookworm, I am going to print this thread and hang on to it!
My girls are freshman in HS now. Not sure if college gymnastics is in their future, but if so, your questions are excellent and not ones I would have thought of as an inexperienced parent.

 

[rjb123]

Wow! That surprised me as gymnastics isn't a revenue driver like football or basketball.

 

[bogwoppit]

Another thing to consider as a walk on, is would your dd ever actually compete? Is she strong enough on any event to make the line up. Because being a bench warmer, and mat mover, for D1 team would not be what most girls think of when they dream of college gymnastics.

Unless her AA and event scores are up where the other team girls are then chances are she will never compete for the school, even though she will train and attend all the other things the team does. She may not even travel to meets due to funding issues.

Maybe better to be at a D2 or D3 school where she would get to compete and be an equal skill wise.

 

[ZJsMom]

Another thing to consider as a walk on, is would your dd ever actually compete? Is she strong enough on any event to make the line up. Because being a bench warmer, and mat mover, for D1 team would not be what most girls think of when they dream of college gymnastics.

Unless her AA and event scores are up where the other team girls are then chances are she will never compete for the school, even though she will train and attend all the other things the team does. She may not even travel to meets due to funding issues.

Maybe better to be at a D2 or D3 school where she would get to compete and be an equal skill wise.

This is a good point.

The other questions to ask would be what would she need to do to earn a spot in the line up and how long would they give her to get there. It may be different, but on the men's side, I've heard that some programs will take a lot of walk ons as freshman, but after that year, if they're not looking like they can contribute, they'll be cut.

 

[txgymfan]

Bookworm, thank you for your forthright answer to these questions. You are giving valuable insight into this process to many parents that they can't get anywhere else. I am so very sorry your daughter got into a difficult program and sincerely hope your second daughters experience is more fun and balanced.

Us oldies on the site know that your DD has had her ups and downs. You could have left this site long ago, we appreciate that you continue to share your hard earned wisdom with this community.

I hope you and your older daughter find surprising and amazing happiness in her gym this year or at least the rest of her college experience and your younger finds the right fit .

 

[Gymmomto2]

Like others, I'm intrigued! Are there colleges that anyone knows of that have an outstanding reputation for good & positive coaching & team spirit? Not a list of who wins.

 

[bookworm]

Bookworm, thank you for your forthright answer to these questions. You are giving valuable insight into this process to many parents that they can't get anywhere else. I am so very sorry your daughter got into a difficult program and sincerely hope your second daughters experience is more fun and balanced.

Us oldies on the site know that your DD has had her ups and downs. You could have left this site long ago, we appreciate that you continue to share your hard earned wisdom with this community.

I hope you and your older daughter find surprising and amazing happiness in her gym this year or at least the rest of her college experience and your younger finds the right fit .

Thank you txgymfan for your kind words. And the funny thing in all this is that my oldest still says " nothing compares to the feeling of being a D1 athlete and competing on that stage" and she still loves gymnastics! She's been a regular competitor on her college team on multiple events so it's not like she's put up with all this crap to be a mat mover but if I had a do over, I personally would do it differently, and hopefully we'll have a less angst producing experience with round 2. I share my insights on this process because as much as I thought I knew and researched back in the day, I didn't know what I really should have asked to route out the crazies and the witches, and my daughter has paid the price. She is my true hero in all this...she's put up with things unimaginable and still gets up every day loving gymnastics and pushing through for her team...college gym could use more kids like her.

 

[MeetDirector]

Wow! That surprised me as gymnastics isn't a revenue driver like football or basketball.

Some gymnastics teams actually draw way more fans than their basketball team (Utah, Georgia come to mind) so, yes the ability to make money for the school is a huge factor. And don't forget, donors want winning records and SOME coaches will do anything in that quest for wins.