Women Do you REALLY think USAG will survive?

[rjb123]

I honestly thought (hoped?) that they would, but lately, I am not so sure. Actually I feel like they may be sinking fast. My DH asked me if I knew where JO Nationals were next year and it actually crossed my mind that there might not BE one! Am I alone in this?

 

[jamieintexas]

The real question is does USAG deserve to survive? I think the answer is no. I love my sport, I love my girls, I love that feeling of teaching new skills. There are thousands of coaches that are just thinking “WTH happened.” We read about how they didn’t feel the need to inform us of evil people in our sport. How can we trust them again?

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

The big problem to me is that they really, want to keep the old guard in leadership. The OG won a lot of medals. But the OG let this happen, created the environment in which this happened. Virtually no one they can pick from that group is going to look like a good choice, unless they have publicly renounced and apologized for their old ways (not times have changed and so have we BS) and actually changed their behavior (before 2016.) Is there anyone? I don't know.

I was reading in another forum about the widespread scandal going on yet again in the Catholic Church and someone made/quoted this statement that I felt applied just as much here:

As one popular Catholic personality said this week, ""If the Church needs to start over with five people, let it start over with five people." What needs to happen right now is for all the dark secrets of the hierarchy to be brought into the light. Those who have done evil need to be brought to justice, and those who have been passive or ineffective need to step aside. And if that means that the Church will lose members of its hierarchy, its parishioners, or its money, then so be it. We need to adopt a "whatever it takes" mentality to clean house.”

I think that's about right...

 

[3rd_time_around]

I think they can, but I think people don't want them to. Certain people out there will settle for nothing less than "burning it down." They need to be allowed to rebuild. It can be done and done well, but they need a little space from the torches and pitchforks. And just because someone was in the system during Nassar's time does not mean they were part of it or even knew of it. I think Rhonda Faehn would be great, but others wouldn't. Because she "didn't do more." She did what she knew to do at the time. Things like this are what I'm talking about. There are so many amazing people in the gymnastics world that are caught in the crossfire just due to association which is not fair or right. (This is my opinion. I will not respond to personal attacks because you don't agree.)

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

I think they can, but I think people don't want them to. Certain people out there will settle for nothing less than "burning it down." They need to be allowed to rebuild. It can be done and done well, but they need a little space from the torches and pitchforks. And just because someone was in the system during Nassar's time does not mean they were part of it or even knew of it. I think Rhonda Faehn would be great, but others wouldn't. Because she "didn't do more." She did what she knew to do at the time. Things like this are what I'm talking about. There are so many amazing people in the gymnastics world that are caught in the crossfire just due to association which is not fair or right. (This is my opinion. I will not respond to personal attacks because you don't agree.)

Couldn't have said it better myself. It can survive and I hope and pray that it will survive. It's time to move forward!!!!

 

[John]

As all the details came to light I was of the mind that USAG should disappear. I certainly do not beleive USAG has the right to rebuild, they need to earn everyone's trust by operating with a mind on the future and well being of its participants. At this very moment, I do not care if USAG stays or goes, I simply want an organization to emerge that is transparent and looks to better its athletes and the sport in every aspect. Its focus should not be on profits or employee salary.

You can't be wrong if you are always doing what's right.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Unfortunately it seems intodays world there is no room for things like making amends and redemption.

It saddens me that folks don’t think people can learn and grow.

 

[profmom]

As I have said before, I am all for redemption, but people who require a lot of it should not be running organizations, nor should they be receiving prestigious career recognitions until they have shown by their actions as well as their words that they have completed the process and made amends to the people they have injured. This does not apply only to gymnastics.

 

[munchkin3]

I think they can, but I think people don't want them to. Certain people out there will settle for nothing less than "burning it down." They need to be allowed to rebuild. It can be done and done well, but they need a little space from the torches and pitchforks. And just because someone was in the system during Nassar's time does not mean they were part of it or even knew of it. I think Rhonda Faehn would be great, but others wouldn't. Because she "didn't do more." She did what she knew to do at the time. Things like this are what I'm talking about. There are so many amazing people in the gymnastics world that are caught in the crossfire just due to association which is not fair or right. (This is my opinion. I will not respond to personal attacks because you don't agree.)

Totally right on! I really hope the lawyers can ease up a bit and allow for some deep change without gagging everybody and pointing the finger. Although, some rightfully need to have consequences for their involment, There are some tremendous people in USAG and they have the knowledge and history to forge a new path.....if they are allowed to! I don’t know anything about MLT but it seems she was at least trying to begin the healing process by reaching out.....wether she was right for the job or not. KP was never right for the job and was a puppet.
The past is needed to change the future but that means having some old timers.....

 

[gasrgoose]

Yes the USAG as the organization will survive. It seems as if it has too survive, unless we are pulling out of international competitions and not having regionals, easterns, nationals, TOPS etc. Not to mention, men’s gymnastics, trampoline and tumbling, rhythmic gymnastics, acrobatic gymnastics all of which are controlled by USAG. "USA Gymnastics is the national governing body for the sport in the United States. It gets this designation from the U.S. Olympic Committee and the International Gymnastics Federation" I can't imagine the red tape, bureaucracy & power grabbing that would take place if a new organization was attempted. And what would be the point or result? The organization (structure) is not the problem, SOME of the people were/are the problem. It will take bold, humble leadership to fix things and it won't be easy finding capable people who are willing to step into the fire. I'm a fan of choosing an NCAA athletic director or an assistant director from a school with a well run athletic program preferably with a successful gymnastics team as well.

 

[Taxidriver]

I think USAG are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
What a lot of people seem to want are apologies but in the modern worlds culture the minute you apologise you are admitting responsibility and therefore it becomes a minefield with law suits.
They do seem to be making some poor choices with who they have running it but I’m sure plenty of good people are put off and don’t want to touch it with a barge pole.

 

[sewgood]

The big problem to me is that they really, want to keep the old guard in leadership. The OG won a lot of medals. But the OG let this happen, created the environment in which this happened. Virtually no one they can pick from that group is going to look like a good choice, unless they have publicly renounced and apologized for their old ways (not times have changed and so have we BS) and actually changed their behavior (before 2016.) Is there anyone? I don't know.

I was reading in another forum about the widespread scandal going on yet again in the Catholic Church and someone made/quoted this statement that I felt applied just as much here:



I think that's about right...

I agree. Also, as a Catholic, an American, and a former gymnast/current gym mom... watching the religion, the country, and the sport I love (and that, frankly, are probably the 3 most key things I self identify with) blow up into the huge dumpster fires they are have really been triggering for me. Not to mention, that it’s brought on some depression and anxiety back (from my own assault, which had nothing to do with gym or church) that I had long thought I was past. I feel like no where is safe. And my heart just breaks to think of all the children who were assaulted and abused by coaches, pastors and priests, doctors, etc, etc... the very people who were tasked with protecting them and teaching them and taking care of them. I don’t even know where I’m going with this long, rambling post. It’s just so depressing.

 

[Flyaway]

I agree. Also, as a Catholic, an American, and a former gymnast/current gym mom... watching the religion, the country, and the sport I love (and that, frankly, are probably the 3 most key things I self identify with) blow up into the huge dumpster fires they are have really been triggering for me. Not to mention, that it’s brought on some depression and anxiety back (from my own assault, which had nothing to do with gym or church) that I had long thought I was past. I feel like no where is safe. And my heart just breaks to think of all the children who were assaulted and abused by coaches, pastors and priests, doctors, etc, etc... the very people who were tasked with protecting them and teaching them and taking care of them. I don’t even know where I’m going with this long, rambling post. It’s just so depressing.

((hugs)) I understand the feeling that no where and no one is safe. When ever I start to feel overwhelmed by that, I follow Mr. Rogers' advice and "look for the helpers", because they ARE there. They probably aren't the loud mouths on social media or the spotlight seeking personalities, but they are there. It calms my soul and spirit to look for them when it feels like everything is going to hell in a handbasket.

 

[LemonLime]

USAG had ten Nassar-related law suits pending against it brought by numerable plaintiffs in April 2018. The value of those lawsuits arguably is exceptional based on the value of the Michigan State settlement ($500 million for 332 plaintiffs).

USAG's seven insurance carriers denied coverage and defense costs to USAG for the ten Nassar-related law suits. USAG sued those carriers in Indiana state court in April to compel performance of the insurance contracts. The case was removed to federal court later that month. As of July 6, the parties represented to the court as follows (public record):

"USAG and various of its insurers have gone through two rounds of mediation focusing on the underlying actions. The Parties hope to proceed to a third round of mediation and are holding some dates in mid-August. However, due to the parties’ and the mediator’s availability, mediation may not take place until October. USAG and its participating insurers anticipate that a resolution of the underlying cases could have an impact on the issues to be adjudicated in this action and/or could involve a resolution of this coverage dispute as well."

In other words, if the parties can settle the coverage issues, perhaps they can proceed with the law suits and resolve the litigation and financial crises facing USAG and the gymnastics community. Until coverage is resolved, it's impossible to know if USAG can survive financially.

Whether the USOC revokes the USAG's gymnastics NGB charter for mismanagement and due to the allegations in the complaints is another matter entirely. New USOC President Sarah Hirshland, however, does not seem happy with USAG's response and is signaling she is planning some sort of action.

 

[profmom]

Sewgood, I acknowledge that it is enormously difficult for us collectively to be dealing with what in many cases is long-buried pain from past abusive behavior. Too many of these stories were never told at all, or if they were told, they were told in whispers, one person to another, trying to protect people against individuals known for not respecting boundaries or personal autonomy. But as these stories are told now, we have a chance to change things and to try to build a world in which our children will not have to have those whispered conversations along the lines of "don't go out socially with that one, don't let that one supervise your work, be careful around him if you happen to be alone with him" etc.

Be good to yourself.

 

[gasrgoose]

USAG had ten Nassar-related law suits pending against it brought by numerable plaintiffs in April 2018. The value of those lawsuits arguably is exceptional based on the value of the Michigan State settlement ($500 million for 332 plaintiffs).

USAG's seven insurance carriers denied coverage and defense costs to USAG for the ten Nassar-related law suits. USAG sued those carriers in Indiana state court in April to compel performance of the insurance contracts. The case was removed to federal court later that month. As of July 6, the parties represented to the court as follows (public record):

"USAG and various of its insurers have gone through two rounds of mediation focusing on the underlying actions. The Parties hope to proceed to a third round of mediation and are holding some dates in mid-August. However, due to the parties’ and the mediator’s availability, mediation may not take place until October. USAG and its participating insurers anticipate that a resolution of the underlying cases could have an impact on the issues to be adjudicated in this action and/or could involve a resolution of this coverage dispute as well."

In other words, if the parties can settle the coverage issues, perhaps they can proceed with the law suits and resolve the litigation and financial crises facing USAG and the gymnastics community. Until coverage is resolved, it's impossible to know if USAG can survive financially.

Whether the USOC revokes the USAG's gymnastics NGB charter for mismanagement and due to the allegations in the complaints is another matter entirely. New USOC President Sarah Hirshland, however, does not seem happy with USAG's response and is signaling she is planning some sort of action.

It sounds like they are headed for bankruptcy. The huge dollar amounts for settlements discussed for the USAG are not realistic. USAG is very different and much smaller than Michigan State. MSU is obviously a state school backed by the financials of the state of Michigan. USAG is a 501c organization who's revenue for 2016 was $34 million. The State of Michigan for the same period had revenue of $57 Billion. So while MSU can offer $500 million for settlements, USAG can't offer a tenth of that number because they don't have it and it sounds like their insurance is not going to cover it. I'd be surprised if they had enough coverage for the amount the courts will allow, even if the insurance companies cover.

Of course the victims could go after the USOC since they have more money and give the USAG their authority.

 

[profmom]

It sounds like they are headed for bankruptcy. The huge dollar amounts for settlements discussed for the USAG are not realistic. USAG is very different and much smaller than Michigan State. MSU is obviously a state school backed by the financials of the state of Michigan. USAG is a 501c organization who's revenue for 2016 was $34 million. The State of Michigan for the same period had revenue of $57 Billion. So while MSU can offer $500 million for settlements, USAG can't offer a tenth of that number because they don't have it and it sounds like their insurance is not going to cover it. I'd be surprised if they had enough coverage for the amount the courts will allow, even if the insurance companies cover.

Of course the victims could go after the USOC since they have more money and give the USAG their authority.

USOC is named in several of the suits.

 

[LemonLime]

USOC is named in several of the suits.

I believe John and Jane Doe vs. USAG, Civil Case No.: 2:18-CV-3464-JLS-KES, pending in federal court for the Central District of California, recently settled. I do not know if there are surviving claims, but I hope the case is still alive because both USAG and the USOC filed very well developed Motions to Dismiss in that action. The hearing for the USOC's Motion is/was set for this Friday. It would be good to get a ruling on the USOC's liability for the reason @gasrgoose explains. Generally speaking, the plaintiffs need a smoking gun to improve the quality of their pre-2016 causes of action, although active knowledge is not required for the plaintiffs to be successful on every cause of action. No one inside USAG has ever come forward as a whistleblower -- perhaps because there is nothing to explain??? We simply do not know.

 

[profmom]

I believe John and Jane Doe vs. USAG, Civil Case No.: 2:18-CV-3464-JLS-KES, pending in federal court for the Central District of California, recently settled. I do not know if there are surviving claims, but I hope the case is still alive because both USAG and the USOC filed very well developed Motions to Dismiss in that action. The hearing for the USOC's Motion is/was set for this Friday. It would be good to get a ruling on the USOC's liability for the reason @gasrgoose explains. Generally speaking, the plaintiffs need a smoking gun to improve the quality of their pre-2016 causes of action, although active knowledge is not required for the plaintiffs to be successful on every cause of action. No one inside USAG has ever come forward as a whistleblower -- perhaps because there is nothing to explain??? We simply do not know.

It's complicated for sure. Part of the problem for USOC is the status of SafeSport and their oversight duties of care. I am sure everyone is also watching the taekwondo lawsuit in which USOC is also named. My guess is that if USOC were to fight these out, they could get dismissed from the earlier suits. We will probably not know much more from the one that settled though, as I am sure everyone is signing NDAs.