Coaches Do you scratch events and why?

[GymMom&Coach]

What would technically be a good reason to scratch a girl from a specific event? I have two Level 4's who just cant get their kip and long hang kip. I HATE to spot in competition, so this seems like strong grounds to scratch...Am I wrong?

 

[aerialriver]

Kip is a gate keeper skill at my gym you can't kip yet then you're not a level 4. Scratching seems odd at that level. The only time I see people scratch is when they are injured.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

If a child cannot make it through a routine in warm ups with appropriate technique then they get scratched. I do it every year and it always benefits the child in the end. That being said, for the first meet of the year I will allow a child who hasn't made full routines in the gym an opportunity to participate in warmups at the first meet, (sometimes it works and you finally get that kip and then they get to compete, REWARD, if not then at least you gave them an opportunity). After the first meet it is determined the days prior to the next meet if they are scratching. After that they ALWAY get that straight arm kip, ALWAYS.
Hope that helps.

 

[GymMom&Coach]

I agree with both of you, thank you! I recently got placed as the new L4 coach, so I cant do much about the move up that already happened, this specific girl is doing her 2nd year at this level (for obvious reasons) I like the ultimatum "coachp"

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Tons of drop kips with her, and put her on strap bar and work kips. Yes, strap bar kips,,, It's my last ditch effort to build a little spark with a child who has not made a straight arm kip. And lastly, after two years of not kipping... well... Unless she is really out of shape, I would have to say that she really doesn't want to be there....

 

[JBS]

I agree with both of you, thank you! I recently got placed as the new L4 coach, so I cant do much about the move up that already happened, this specific girl is doing her 2nd year at this level (for obvious reasons) I like the ultimatum "coachp"

First I would talk to the head coach about how gymnasts are put into levels...

...then I would scratch her on bars.

 

[raenndrops]

We are in a YMCA program. There are MANDATE scores in which a gymnast HAS to move up. This means that, sometimes, a girl moves up without a kip. We work kips and work kips and work kips. We rarely scratch a girl for not having her kips. She just gets 2 falls. Now, if she is missing both kips AND another bar skill in warm-ups, then she will be scratched... or if she is completely frustrated and on the verge of tears after warm-ups... or injured.

My "favorite" bar routine in a meet was from a girl who realized AFTER moving up to old L5 that she is afraid of heights. First meet of the season, decent low bar, hits the squat on, jumps, high bar kip, freeze..... ..... ..... coach tells her to do her back hip circle ... ... ... coach gets up on a block to talk to her - girl is almost white as a ghost ... coach convinces the girl to at least do an underswing and complete the L5 dismount. She got a 3.650. Her season high was a 6.100.... the coach put her on the lowest bar setting with the widest width. She didn't freeze as much / as long after that.
This season, she is doing Xcel Gold - the only high bar she does is jump to it and immediate old L5 dismount.

 

[GymCoachR2]

My personal philosophy is to not put kids out there without having ALL of their skills.

I want them to feel like they can be competitive and successful and are on par with or above the rest of the field. I want to instill confidence in them, and so I won't put them out there to try something that they don't believe that can succeed at (or haven't already in the gym).

 

[raenndrops]

Because all Y's in our district are in the same boat, we all have girls that might be missing a skill or 2 in the levels. They can still be competitive within the district. We had a Level 4 without a back handspring that finished 4th on floor once this past season. She did much better on the other events though... 1st on vault and 3rd on beam as high places. This season, she is competing Xcel Gold. She has been trying to get her back handspring forever and it was holding her back - she has a front tuck that she couldn't use!

 

[gymdog]

My "favorite" bar routine in a meet was from a girl who realized AFTER moving up to old L5 that she is afraid of heights. First meet of the season, decent low bar, hits the squat on, jumps, high bar kip, freeze..... ..... ..... coach tells her to do her back hip circle ... ... ... coach gets up on a block to talk to her - girl is almost white as a ghost ... coach convinces the girl to at least do an underswing and complete the L5 dismount. She got a 3.650. Her season high was a 6.100.... the coach put her on the lowest bar setting with the widest width. She didn't freeze as much / as long after that.
This season, she is doing Xcel Gold - the only high bar she does is jump to it and immediate old L5 dismount.

She had never been on a high bar before competing?

 

[raenndrops]

She had never been on a high bar before competing?

She had been on the high bar before... but with our team... it is possible to avoid what you don't like - going to the bathroom for 20 minutes can do it... She would be on our "little" set of bars on the high bar and take a while to do her back hip circle... but the coach didn't think she would completely FREEZE in a meet situation. It just happened - a different gym, different bars, different lighting... she completely froze.

 

[gymdog]

Well, that's an example of why kids should scratch events they're unprepared for. It can be dangerous to do the high bar portion of the routine without proper preparation, which they usually don't have when they are weak on the event (since they never get to high bar due to doing other drills). Also, squat on jump to high bar is dangerous in itself (danger of falling forward on the arms and breaking arms - this is far too common). The same danger is on a shoot through and these skills should always be spotted at this level. There is also the danger of slipping on the underswing or tap swings and injury to the arms, neck, or spine.

So again I'm a huge fan of scratching unless the child has done the whole routine on a competition set dozens of time. I would be hesitant to suggest anything like getting a kip in the warmup and then trying because not all coaches are trained to see where the dangers and needs for spotting are, and may not have trained the high bar part as much as it should have been trained.

 

[Aussie_coach]

In Australia it would be very, very rare to see a child scratch and event or even skip a skill. Coaches don't tend to move a kid up into the higher level unless they have all the requirements skills to a good solid standard.

If there is scratching it seems a gymnast may have been moved up before they are ready.

 

[raenndrops]

The girl in question had ALL of the skills. She was just scared of the high bar, so usually did it on her own time- get up there, readjust grips 3-4 times, mentally prepare, and do it. It was this ONE meet that she froze completely on the high bar. With the lighting in this gym, the bar looked even higher than usual - which it wasn't. It was an optical illusion that affected her. It was also her lowest score of the season. But, because of this fear, she has switched to Excel Gold this season so she is not required to do much on the high bar.

 

[gymdog]

The girl in question had ALL of the skills. She was just scared of the high bar, so usually did it on her own time- get up there, readjust grips 3-4 times, mentally prepare, and do it. It was this ONE meet that she froze completely on the high bar. With the lighting in this gym, the bar looked even higher than usual - which it wasn't. It was an optical illusion that affected her. It was also her lowest score of the season. But, because of this fear, she has switched to Excel Gold this season so she is not required to do much on the high bar.

I understand that it might seem that way to a parent, but she didn't have all the skills. The skills for a level 5 bar routine are to be able to connect a kip cast BHC underswing on the high bar, which it sounds like she had never done before. Additionally, the child should have done so in the warm-up before competing.

 

[raenndrops]

I understand that it might seem that way to a parent, but she didn't have all the skills. The skills for a level 5 bar routine are to be able to connect a kip cast BHC underswing on the high bar, which it sounds like she had never done before. Additionally, the child should have done so in the warm-up before competing.

I am not the child's parent. And I said she had the SKILLS. I didn't say that she had it all connected. I am aware that the connections are important, but they have to have the skills first. Once they have everything connected, the scores go up.
In warm-ups, she didn't get through a full routine, but neither did a lot of the girls. It was the first competition of the year and everyone had gitters and struggled in warm-ups.
Our coaches are all about safety and this wasn't a safety issue, even if it may seem like it to someone only reading about it. This gymnast never scratched an event (her choice), and she competed all the skills in all the other routines. She had a well-connected low bar by the end of the season, but the high bar never did get connected properly.

 

[gymdog]

I am not the child's parent. And I said she had the SKILLS. I didn't say that she had it all connected. I am aware that the connections are important, but they have to have the skills first. Once they have everything connected, the scores go up.
In warm-ups, she didn't get through a full routine, but neither did a lot of the girls. It was the first competition of the year and everyone had gitters and struggled in warm-ups.
Our coaches are all about safety and this wasn't a safety issue, even if it may seem like it to someone only reading about it. This gymnast never scratched an event (her choice), and she competed all the skills in all the other routines. She had a well-connected low bar by the end of the season, but the high bar never did get connected properly.

We'll have to agree to disagree, because there is no way I would compete a kid who did not get to high bar in the warm up, and would not encourage any other coaches to either. I have seen falls with the potential to result in some form of paralysis from level 5s doing high bar. The risk goes up when the child is unprepared. That's just my comfort level. There are some things I can't unsee.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Spot, spot, spot. We always spot the counter swings at meets, and every year I have to catch at least 2 or 3. Particularly the days leading up to state and at state.

 

[gymdog]

Spot, spot, spot. We always spot the counter swings at meets, and every year I have to catch at least 2 or 3. Particularly the days leading up to state and at state.

I fully encourage spotting, but they should be prepared to do the routine mentally and physically as well. Just doing a low bar kip is not adequate preparation to compete the routine.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I think I got the whole compulsory thing figured out, but thanks....

I fully encourage spotting, but they should be prepared to do the routine mentally and physically as well. Just doing a low bar kip is not adequate preparation to compete the routine.