WAG Does talking with the coach really make a difference?

[HangingOn]

I watched dd's practice yesterday. Her practices are very long and I usually just drop her off at the curb and hubby picks her up at the end of practice. DD's group that has been training level 9 was split. It appeared to me that she was with the "low expectations" girls. The fact that they split the group really bothers me. I know my dd is still training 9 (perhaps, with code changes maybe the skills she is working on are now allowed under the new code for 8?) but she isn't getting the same focused coaching as the other group. You can tell the coaches are pushing the "better" group to really have it all for 9. The coaching for my dd's group was sporadic, distracted. I am tempted to talk to the HC to better understand why they have changed their expectations for her but would it really change things? Certainly, I have talked to coaches over the years when I have felt this way before but now that I am older (and maybe wiser) I wonder if it does any good? Does a parent's 2cents affect the coaches pov? I did drop off my dd today with a warning that she may not move up with her team and she had to prove to her coaches that she has what it takes to go to 9 this year. But if she doesn't train bar releases, she can't do it. So the coaches need to believe in her too. Hard work alone won't do it. Btw, she was injured right before states but is fully back training. Did well as an 8 (high 36’s) but most of her teammates are solid 37s. What do you think? (Love coaches point of view here!)

training LOSO and bt,bt series on beam
double back on fx
tsuk LO on vault
no releases on bars!

 

[MeetDirector]

Does meeting with a coach face-to-face make a difference? Yes, but depends on several things. First, try and do it outside of practice time, and I don't mean right before or right after. Request a meeting during a non-coaching part of the day. Second, you have to go into the meeting with a very clear sense of what questions/issues you are trying to get answered/resolved. Next, you need to be willing to listen. I know this may sound strange, but there is a concept called active listening where you actually engage yourself in the listening process by repeating things back and making sure you have complete understanding. You have to be willing to hear the bad things as well as the good without emotion. This is tough and I hope you are successful.

Also as you are well aware by this point in her gymnastics career, a lot (all?) of the coaching experience rests on your dd's shoulders. She has to show the coach that she is ready and willing to be coached on the big skills. Learning release moves on bars is tough and takes time and dedication; it can be tough on a coach and he probably wants to spend the energy on those that want to go for it.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Without seeing your gymnast, we have no way of knowing. But I can tell you that if the coaches are any good, (and it sounds like they are with the scores mentioned), you have to trust that they are putting your gymnast where she is going to get the best training. As a coach and a parent of a gymnast, I can tell you that it's hard to make these decisions and even harder as a parent to accept that your child (and others) are just progressing a bit slower than some, (IN THE HARDEST SPORT ON EARTH).. But doing what is best for them and challenging them (by telling them to earn it) is a part of EVERY sport. My oldest is competing in college now, and has to EARN every start at each meet. She was lucky enough to compete at every meet this year on at least one event, but was pulled out of competition on some events because she wasn't hitting in the gym. This is the life of an athlete...
Hope that helps,

 

[vagymmomma]

I just went through a similar process for my DD as they were dividing girls for summer training groups (my DD is training 8 but they did the same thing for the 9s and 10s as well). The coaches made the point that just because a gymnast was in one group or another did not necessarily mean that was where they were going to be in the fall. However, it sent a pretty symbolic message to the gymnasts (I'm sure parents as well) because it did show some expectations on where they are. DD went with the "higher" training group, and some of the girls who went with the lower group were definitely disappointed they weren't with them.

I'm not a coach, but I can imagine all kinds of reasons for making the choices -- many of them not easy or straightforward. A conversation can only help with that if approached with the right demeanor. I can see coaches using a lower training group as a motivational tool for gymnasts that aren't pushing their skills enough (i.e., maybe those not willing to try a certain C or stretch for a higher series). I can also tell you that at our gym DD thinks some of the training group decisions were about the team "meshing". We had one of the higher performing girls put with the lower training group -- probably because she's a lot younger than the girls in the higher training group and closer in age to the other group. The expectation is that will not impact her uptraining. There was one who was the opposite -- older but not as skilled who went with the higher group.

Plus, some girls are not at the same level on all events. Mine is lights out on vault and bars, pretty advanced skills on beam, but can't seem to easily grasp the twisting. I could see the coaches putting her in the lower group, but it really didn't make sense looking at everything. So maybe it's one particular event with your daughter? We're all just guessing though, so this is a long-winded way of saying, yes, talk to the coaches.

 

[ollieblueeyes]

Yes. I just today I had a very good conversation with DD's coach. Sometimes as parents we don't know all the facts. I was making an assumption that was wrong. The coach explained her thoughts and I agree with her position. i would say it was 10 mins well spent.

 

[iwannacoach]

Does a parent's 2cents affect the coaches pov? I did drop off my dd today with a warning that she may not move up with her team and she had to prove to her coaches that she has what it takes to go to 9 this year. But if she doesn't train bar releases, she can't do it. So the coaches need to believe in her too. Hard work alone won't do it. Btw, she was injured right before states but is fully back training. Did well as an 8 (high 36’s) but most of her teammates are solid 37s. What do you think? (Love coaches point of view here!)

training LOSO and bt,bt series on beam
double back on fx
tsuk LO on vault
no releases on bars!

My feeling is that the coaches have kids pretty well figured out if they've worked with them a few years and they've competed at level 8. Your input has value when you're telling the coach things about your child's mental state that you see at home that they can't see at the gym. That's helpful when a kid is feeling down about their place in the sport, has a fear issue, or is living in a newly conflicted family environment, extended or otherwise.

You'll likely get little traction in areas like group placement, and not just because the coach has, to the best of his/her abilty, assessed your child's abilty to work at one level of risk, emotional investment, and reward vs the other level of the same factors. This is a situation where you have to trust that the coach has the best plan and intentions for your daughter. Really, what good will it do if she invests in getting release moves that may not materialize while she sacrifices energy that could be better used on the other three events. Please consider the reality that each of us can only withstand our own limit of stress before we lose efficiency and payoffs. That's a real issue I consider when I'm working with kids, and the oly way I can be moved to believe they can handle more stress is for them to take on each challenge and dispatch it handily..... that's when I'll feed them a bit more.

I totally applaud what you told your child daughter about proving herself, as that's always, barring injury, a win-win-win for you, your daughter, and her coach.

 

[flipandtwist]

Is there any possibility that she doesn't work as hard in practice? It can be hard to accept that your kid isn't working super hard, but whenever I was still in gymnastics and not coaching, our group was also split. One of the girls moms had a fit, when her daughter spent a majority part of practice goofing off. You also have to consider the style of coaching works best for your daughter. The coaches might believe that she works better with coaches that do less "pushing". Maybe coaches that constantly push her stress her out. But in general, a coach does take a parent's opinion into account, but that might not mean she would be moved to the other group either. I would recommend having a talk with the coach, because maybe they can explain their decisions.

 

[Natasha]

Meeting with a coach can be very helpful, if you are meeting to truly find out what the coach is thinking/planning. If your motivation to meet however is to tell the coach what group you want your daughter in or what you want the coach to do, it will not be very helpful. So, in answer to your question, meeting with the coach does make a difference in that it can help you understand the coach's reasoning. If your daughter is not training release moves on bars there may be a reason, it may be that she needs to focus on some other bar skills first. My dd too, just finished her L8 season. She is training L9 skills on every event except bars as she needs more bar basics first.
Also, how does your daughter feel about her training and her group? Has she told you she is not working bar releases or told you why or is this based on your observation from practices? I watched a practice the other day and was surprised to see no upper level skills at all- but then I found out afterwards from my dd that "Mondays is basics day."

 

[HangingOn]

Thank you to everyone who replied. I decided it was a knee-jerk reaction to talk to the coach and ask why she wasn't with her usual teammates. It might help me feel better by expressing my concerns but our coaches really are fantastic and I am sure they know what they are doing. As mentioned, she has the whole summer (plus) to prep for 9 and hopefully she will dig in and get there. If not, I am sure she will do great repeating 8. I have read that learning some of the release skills on bars are easier before she becomes a teen so I still hope they start on those with her before the possibility of a fear factor sets in even if she doesn't compete them this season. Top lesson learned tho - don't watch practice.

 

[iwannacoach]

I decided it was a knee-jerk reaction to talk to the coach and ask why she wasn't with her usual teammates........

I'm happy to hear you're getting to "ok" from where you started, because there's only one person, provided the coach is good, who can get your daughter up to and through L9....... your daughter herself. She's the one who's there every moment, and able to gather her determination, focus her concentration, rally her spirits, and become a partner with her coach. That's what it takes for her to get the most for herself, from herself, and from the coach. I think your conclusion supports their building a partnership, and the only time I'd advise you step in is if either one of them is obviously off course.

....she has the whole summer (plus) to prep for 9 and hopefully she will dig in and get there. If not, I am sure she will do great repeating 8.

It's all about the work, because she'll end up much better off and enjoy herself more if she works as hard as she can with the sum of all her abilities and resources, including you, without regard to level or destination.

I have read that learning some of the release skills on bars are easier before she becomes a teen

Not so much. She's likely to have the motor skill background she needs for release moves in place now, or will have by the time her brain has matured, usually about the end of puberty. She only needs sufficient background with flight, saltos, and turns. So with level 8 behind her she's probably ok, as long as she keeps conditioning, maintains good nutrition habits, and gets enough rest, and keeps it that way.

 

[Natasha]

Also, remember that even if she does a 2nd year of L8 this season, she will be able to use harder skills as one C skill will be allowed per event now. This is a great thing as she can upgrade on some events if she is ready but not ready on others.

 

[shelovestoflip]

Interesting conversation as I've been wondering similar things. My daughter is training Level 9. Competed as a first year 8 this past season wtih some first year 8s and some 2nd year 8s.

She scored just as well as the 2nd year 8s.....mid 35s most season.

It's already been made clear that the girls who competed 8 twice will move to 9.

The girls who were 1st year 8s have not been told....possibly to 9 or possibly 8 again.

Honestly, I'm ok either way. But I get the sense that they keep girls together simply due to social reasons....the girls have trained together forever. So once they get to higher levels, I wonder if they dont' move the girls because they don't want to mess up what makes a group click. Not the right decision, but my observation.

Hard to know!