Parents Forcing to compete?

[gymdog]

No, you are exactly right. I told them they can work something out based on my previous experience, but apparently I was wrong.

I'm definitely sympathetic to the awkwardness of the situation. You didn't lie, but it is true that maybe they changed their policy BECAUSE of the girls you previously mentioned. My guess is it didn't work out or something or they realized it is taking spots from those who would fully participate. But I also suspect that if they continue to argue and act like it's unreasonable, they are going to paint themselves as people who should not be invited to team ever. If she's never done preteam and isn't ready to commit, it would be better to approach the office staff from the perspective of "what would be a class where she could work TOWARDS team but wouldn't require competing?" Surely they have some class where the kids in the bronze team come from.

 

[wallflower]

I am sure all of this is difficult. But if you are have joined a JO or Xcel or even IGC practice I think it is implied you will be competing. I can totally understand why coaches would not want a child who is not competing in the same class as those who are. That's exactly why there is team and rec. And as a parent of a child on team I get it too.

These are the things that should be clarified before signing up. I am sure they placed her in bronze because that is where they felt she could compete. I would expect a preteam class to not compete.

Perhaps as this is all new to the family, a payment schedule can be worked out with the gym.

But I think not competing will be more difficult. She is in an Xcel Bronze class, they compete. If her parents don't want her to compete its back to rec.

That's not forcing her to compete, but rather choosing which class she belongs in.

I hope it all works out without too much disappointment and hard feelings, especially for the kids.

I know your DD is a lower level so you may not have years of experience in the sport, but people on team train and hold off competing ALL the time for various reasons. The OP never said the girl wasn't going to compete, she was just told she didn't have to compete right now. It takes time to prepare for competition.

My DD is a level 10 and maybe she won't compete this season so perhaps I should find her a preteam class or a rec class? I'll check into that.

 

[gymdog]

I know your DD is a lower level so you may not have years of experience in the sport, but people on team train and hold off competing ALL the time for various reasons. The OP never said the girl wasn't going to compete, she was just told she didn't have to compete right now. It takes time to prepare for competition.

My DD is a level 10 and maybe she won't compete this season so perhaps I should find her a preteam class or a rec class? I'll check into that.

Do you really think a level 10 "maybe" not competing for whatever her reason is is the same as getting evaluated for Xcel Bronze and then when told you're accepted and what you have to do to sign up, arguing that you just want to attend classes? I guarantee this kid CAN compete Xcel bronze if she has attained the most basic of gymnastics skills. They don't want to pay for it. That's fine, but it's also fine for the gym to say that she needs to sign up to compete.

 

[GikiGirl]

It's totally understandable that you assumed they could make special arrangements, but it looks like it's just not something they want to do for whatever reason at the present time.

I think sometimes businesses are more willing to 'bend the rules' if someone has been a loyal, rule abiding, paying customer for years. They may not be as willing to bent rules for someone brand new.

 

[IreneKa]

Update:
I talked to the owner myself yesterday. I know, I know, I shouldn't have, I should have let the parents deal with this, but I was there for DD's private, and the owner was there in the office by herself, so I thought it was a good opportunity. We agreed on a compromise. She would give them until January. If she wants to stay on the team after that, then she has to compete. There will be 3 more meets left before states, one in February, one in March, one in April, and the states are in May.

And again, it's not like they don't want her to compete at all, they are just not mentally ready for such a commitment so soon. They are not the type of parents who are like "my Suzie is the best, why isn't she competing". They were perfectly fine with just the classes, but the kid wanted more. They didn't know there was more. All they saw was my DD practicing 20 hours a week, and they definitely didn't want that. So, I explained that there is a different path, with only 5 hrs a week, where she could still learn gymnastics, and compete, and have fun. So, they agreed to try. They never expected to have to pay $800+ right from the start.

And I'm pretty sure the girl is not ready skill-wise, even for Bronze, because I know our gym, and I know that they often compete the girls at a level they are not ready for. But that's a whole different story.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Glad it worked out.

 

[mommyof1]

So, I explained that there is a different path, with only 5 hrs a week, where she could still learn gymnastics, and compete, and have fun. So, they agreed to try. They never expected to have to pay $800+ right from the start.

Good to hear that it all worked out.

It sounds like the real problem is not whether or not the parents want to pay for the kid to compete, but that the gym did not disclose the full commitment and fee structure before the kid started practicing with the team. If I took my kid to her first practice, signed the release, paid the tuition, and wasn't told at that time that my kid was going to start competing immediately and that the tuition did not include competition expenses, I'd feel like I'd gotten some kind of bait-and-switch if I was asked to come up with several hundred dollars more a week later. They might have been expecting something like the way summer swim team runs in our area, where you pay a single fee that covers coaching and meets for the whole summer and the only extra expense is the swimsuit. If the fee structure had been disclosed before the kid started practicing with the team, the parents could have made an informed decision, negotiated to have the kid practice with the team for a few months without competing, or inquired as to alternative pathways. And they probably would have been a lot more open to coming up with the competition fees if they hadn't felt sucker-punched.

A gym is a business, people. Run it like one and you will have mostly happy, loyal customers who rarely watch practice and leave you alone most of the time. Run it like a secret society and the parents will be unhappy and make your life unnecessarily miserable.

 

[OzZee]

Personally I don't understand why it should be impossible for a child to be on team and not compete.
They are paying the same so if they don't want to compete but want to do the hours then why not.
Maybe I get it if others want the spots and compete, but otherwise I don't get it at all.

There was a comment along the lines of why do it if you aren't going to compete that's the reason - nope for many girls the fun and thrill and enjoyment of learning gymnastics is why they do it, not for a few minutes of competing.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Personally I don't understand why it should be impossible for a child to be on team and not compete.
They are paying the same so if they don't want to compete but want to do the hours then why not.

Team, Xcel, JO,IGC, are competitive, meaning competitions. If you join those teams the requirement/expectation, would be to compete. And whatever else the team requires. How often, how soon, how much mat differ. And if there was a debacle in the communications of that it is an entirely different matter.

We changed gyms because we were not willing to do what our old gyms team required. I didn't expect them to chage their requirements to suit us. We fiound a team that worked for us

There is recreational gymnastics and competitive gymnastics. If you don't wish to compete, you don't join a competive class.

Competitve teams have a size that the gym and coaches can effectively train inthe hopes of those on the teams doing well at meets. And giving the kids what they need to succeed in competition. And the biggest part of that is time per kid. Just because they can have 50 kids in a gym in the same class doesn't mean they should.

As a parent who pays a lot of money for my kid to compete, I don't want her to lose coaching for a kid who never plans to do a meet.

No one says they can't do gymnastics, they need to do rec, take privates.

And if my kid decides she doesn't want to compete but still do gymnastics she will move to rev.

 

[JMACAZ]

I am glad it worked out. I can really see both sides but in the end it is the gymnast who would have to "pay the price" Glad she will be able to stay and hopefully get what she needs to compete.

 

[AgingHippie]

As a parent who pays a lot of money for my kid to compete, I don't want her to lose coaching for a kid who never plans to do a meet.

This I completely agree with.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I can say that it's a shame there isn't a rec option that's viable for those kids who don't want to compete (or can't afford to). To just say go back to rec is ridiculous in practicality, though. My YDD has never done competitive artistic gymnastics. When we moved I tried to find her a rec class and she was actually turned away from a gym because her skills exceeded their rec program. This is a kid who was never going to make anyone's team, but she was "too advanced" on beam and floor for rec. She now only does artistic at kids nights and the occasional open gym. It's a shame because she loves beam. My ODDs struggles would have been not nearly as heartbreaking for her if there were any options for rec that approached her skill or desire level. The most I have seen is about 6 hours or so of a single level of rec possible per week. In every gym we have tried, rec is on a level system. Each session the levels proceed through the same progressions and skills and the only way to truly advance is to go to the next level. The levels topped out, however, pretty low on the skill side. When my girls were in advanced rec they were basically doing robhs over a wedge and pullovers on bars. There was nowhere else to go in rec. Maybe in other places you can do a ton of hours and progressions, but it certainly isn't possible everywhere. I can totally see why some kids/families would want the team training without the competitions. Some girls just flat out love learning gymnastics. If the gym accepts a certain number of girls per training day/coach, then I certainly don't mind my DD having to share the coaches time with the other girls- whether the other girls compete or not has zero bearing on my DDs training since the gym would fill the spots with someone else if those (theoretical) non-competing girls left.

 

[ZJsMom]

I wonder if part of what happened here is that they gym may be willing to make exceptions for people with whom they have a relationship, but it's different when there's someone who's brand new to the program. I can understand that a team is for kids who want to compete. Really, I don't think any of us would expect to sign up for little league and then say, oh by the way, my kid will be coming to practices but we won't be showing up for any of the games. On the other hand, once a kid is on a gymnastics team, I think it's understandable that for a variety of reasons, there may be periods of time where they're not ready to compete, but want to continue training.

 

[gymdog]

It sounds like the real problem is not whether or not the parents want to pay for the kid to compete, but that the gym did not disclose the full commitment and fee structure before the kid started practicing with the team. If I took my kid to her first practice, signed the release, paid the tuition, and wasn't told at that time that my kid was going to start competing immediately and that the tuition did not include competition expenses, I'd feel like I'd gotten some kind of bait-and-switch if I was asked to come up with several hundred dollars more a week later.

The OP said she (not the child's parent, but a friend) took the child for one "evaluation." Then the mother went to sign up and was confused because she thought she could just sign up and not compete. That doesn't seem to me like the gym tried to pull anything. They told the mom at the first opportunity they had to speak with her, before her daughter started practicing, and before she paid anything.

Trust me, I know a lot of people don't want to pay the expenses associated with their kids competing. This is a very common problem. But I don't think it's unreasonable for the gym to expect that entry level competitors will compete with the team when they have no real reason not to other than not wanting to pay. I don't really think either party was in the wrong and I'm glad a compromise has been worked out, but team is an invitation only program and gyms are free to set these policies.

 

[Muddlethru]

All this is, is a lack of communication on both sides on rules, expectations and disclosures. Many gyms allow girls to practice at their gym and are not part of the team; but this is more in the higher levels. With the large numbers of compulsory gymnasts, I can see where the rules may be more rigid.

Sticker shock is experienced by 99% of gymnastics parents. After a few years, or you reach higher optional levels, you don't even think about it anymore (perhaps more accurately is you don't want to think about it anymore).

Glad you worked it out OP. I too would feel responsible if I were in your shoes.

 

[mommyof1]

The OP said she (not the child's parent, but a friend) took the child for one "evaluation." Then the mother went to sign up and was confused because she thought she could just sign up and not compete. That doesn't seem to me like the gym tried to pull anything. They told the mom at the first opportunity they had to speak with her, before her daughter started practicing, and before she paid anything.

I agree that the scenario you describe should not have made the parent feel surprised about the competition fees; however, OP said that the kid had been practicing with the team for more than a week before the team manager disclosed the fees to the parent. The parent had already paid the tuition and signed the waiver at the first practice, which is why she might reasonably have expected that there would be no additional expenses. The child should not have been allowed to practice until all the financial discussions had taken place. Things that are important to parents are just not always important to gym management and staff.

My daughter's gym gave us all of the financial information for all levels, not just for her current level but all the way through L10 so we could see what we were getting ourselves into, before she was evaluated and without my having to ask for it. As a parent, I liked this approach a lot.

 

[juststartingout]

2 year ago my daughter was at a USAIGC gym and in order to practice with the team you had to compete. Last year I moved her to a USAG gym where she competed level 4. They allowed us to compete just 3 meets at a reduced team price so that my daughter had longer to learn her routines and clean up some skills. This wasn't just because she was new there were other kids who had been in the program who were doing the same thing for whatever reason. There were some kids who didn't compete at all other than to test out levels when ready. This gym did whatever they could to make it work for you. It was a large team too so it's not like they were desperate for the business. This year we are at a USAIGC gym again (the sister gym to the one we were at originally) and kids are moved to the team group based on skills but they are not actually required to compete. I have decided that my daughter will sit this competitive season out and just keep training skills. I'm really glad we have this option. There is no rec class at her gym that would have made her happy, they are only an hour or an hour and a half long a few days a week. She likes to be at the gym at least 4 days a week and she is used to 3-4 hour training sessions. They also don't even train up to her skill level in the rec groups. I believe she is the only one in her group not competing this year. She has all her skills but our schedule is just to hectic for competitions right now. I don't think it's a big deal if the kid intends to compete eventually especially if the kid is new it's a lot of money to fork out at one time.

 

[kayjaybe]

I think a lesson for everyone to learn here is to not get too involved/invested in someone else's business. I think a lot of the problem was communication, which was made worse by the fact that there was a third party (OP) in the mix.

I know OP's intentions were good and she did the best she could, but I think if she had simply said to the mom "Hey, there are other options. You should check out my gym. Miss Susie is the owner and I can let her know you'll be calling, if you want." there would have been less problems.

It sounds like OP assumed that the girl wouldn't be required to compete. She conveyed this to the mom. The gym didn't know that had happened and probably got the required paperwork to get the girl started out of the way the first day. Then when they got organized about the team commitments, they approached her about that. They probably assumed she wanted to compete....because why join a team otherwise.

I've made a similar mistake in the past where I was excited and trying to be helpful and it ended up causing more problems than it helped. I've learned that I can't let my excitement and enthusiasm take over and need to let the other person just handle it at their own pace.

I'm glad it seems to be working out. Good luck to both your kids this season!

 

[emorymom]

The compromise sounds great. They can start setting aside money.

I disagree that you can "fail" at Bronze. Nobody needs to win lower levels just do their best and not leave on a stretcher.