Parents Forcing to compete?

[IreneKa]

This is not about my DD, it's about a friend, but I'm so pissed off, I need to talk this out.
I have this friend whose daughter is about my DD's age, and has been taking req classes for a few years now. The girl loves gymnastics, any time time we get together, she is always upside down, doing handstand, cartwheels, walkovers, etc. I kept telling her mom that she needed to find something more serious for her, because those req classes are obviously not enough. She was at a gym where my DD started, they are very picky, they put my DD on Xcel team at the age of 7, because she was "too old" for JO. This girl is almost 10, so they never offered her anything, not even Xcel. So, I suggested her to try out for Xcel team at our current gym, they are not that picky, and would usually accept anyone with minimum number of skills. Her mom didn't want anything too serious like JO, but 5 hrs/week Xcel schedule would work fine for them. Plus, since my DD switched to Xcel this season, we could carpool, so everybody wins.
I talked to the gym, and brought the girl to Xcel practice for evaluation one day with my DD. They said she was fine for Bronze. We figured she wouldn't be ready to compete this season, but she could train with the team for now, and start competing next year. Her mom was fine with that, she is not eager for her DD to start competing.
But, she went to talk to the team manager yesterday, and was slammed with all the competition fees, coaches fees, etc. The team manager gave her the whole lecture how she cannot be on the team and not compete, how she can't take coaches' time away from the the girls who do compete, etc.
The mom was taken aback by all that, she did not expect all those expenses so soon, and I agree with her. The girl has been on the team for a whole of 2 weeks. She's never been on any type of team or pre-team before. Yes, she has some skills, but her form needs a lot of work. No way would she be ready to compete this season! And it's not unheard of at our gym for a girl to practice with the team and not compete, I can think of at least 3 girls I know who did this. I don't know why she suddenly gave her such a hard time on this.
And there is no alternative. They don't have Xcel pre-team. There is a JO pre-team, but it's a bunch of 5 year olds. Our gym starts competing at L1, so pre-team is pre-L1, she would be bored there. Other than that, there is once a week Advanced class, that's it.
I told the mom to talk to the owner, because the team manager is just someone who works there, she is not the one making those decisions. I hope the owner will be more accommodating.
I'm just angry with the gym, and upset because I got them into this, and the girl is very excited to be on the team. But now if the parents decide not to do this, the girl will be disappointed, and it's all my fault.
So, not really asking anything, as I said just wanted to talk this out.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I am sure all of this is difficult. But if you are have joined a JO or Xcel or even IGC practice I think it is implied you will be competing. I can totally understand why coaches would not want a child who is not competing in the same class as those who are. That's exactly why there is team and rec. And as a parent of a child on team I get it too.

These are the things that should be clarified before signing up. I am sure they placed her in bronze because that is where they felt she could compete. I would expect a preteam class to not compete.

Perhaps as this is all new to the family, a payment schedule can be worked out with the gym.

But I think not competing will be more difficult. She is in an Xcel Bronze class, they compete. If her parents don't want her to compete its back to rec.

That's not forcing her to compete, but rather choosing which class she belongs in.

I hope it all works out without too much disappointment and hard feelings, especially for the kids.

 

[Seeker]

Sounds like the Team Manager and Coach need to communicate better.

 

[IreneKa]

I am sure all of this is difficult. But if you are have joined a JO or Xcel or even IGC practice I think it is implied you will be competing. I can totally understand why coaches would not want a child who is not competing in the same class as those who are. That's exactly why there is team and rec. And as a parent of a child on team I get it too.

These are the things that should be clarified before signing up. I am sure they placed her in bronze because that is where they felt she could compete. I would expect a preteam class to not compete.

Perhaps as this is all new to the family, a payment schedule can be worked out with the gym.

But I think not competing will be more difficult. She is in an Xcel Bronze class, they compete. If her parents don't want her to compete its back to rec.

That's not forcing her to compete, but rather choosing which class she belongs in.

I hope it all works out without too much disappointment and hard feelings, especially for the kids.

It's not like they don't want her to compete at all, just not so soon. It's only been two weeks. What if she doesn't like it? It's a big commitment to base on only 3-4 practices she had so far. Plus, paying all those fees for the competitions she is not ready for, setting her up for a failure?
And yes, she needs to be in preteam class, but there is no preteam, it's either team or req.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It's not like they don't want her to compete at all, just not so soon. It's only been two weeks. What if she doesn't like it? It's a big commitment to base on only 3-4 practices she had so far. Plus, paying all those fees for the competitions she is not ready for, setting her up for a failure?
And yes, she needs to be in preteam class, but there is no preteam, it's either team or req.

When is the first meet?

Really unfortunately I think it would be understood that competing was part of it. Those were the kind of questions that should of been asked when they joined. But can't go backward. So they need to have a conversation and go forward. Hopefully with a plan that works for everyone. I still twitch when I think about the stress of that first week.

If they are thinking they don't want her to compete at all Xcel is not the place for her.

But is she is in Xcel there will be competition.

I remember when we changed gyms. My kid hadn't been there one week. I needed to pay for her competition leo, warm up and bag. Tuition, 2 meets. All due now, actually the team uniform stuff was past due and the coach couldn't gurantee it would arrive for her first meet. Oh and no credit card, cash or check. I was running around at ATMs, taking cash advances.

 

[Gym Beam]

It's not like they don't want her to compete at all, just not so soon. It's only been two weeks. What if she doesn't like it? It's a big commitment to base on only 3-4 practices she had so far. Plus, paying all those fees for the competitions she is not ready for, setting her up for a failure?
And yes, she needs to be in preteam class, but there is no preteam, it's either team or req.

When is the first meet? Does she want to compete?

 

[IreneKa]

When is the first meet? Does she want to compete?

The first meet is in October, but that one is full, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to add her. The next one is in December. The girl does want to compete, but I don't think she will be ready even by December. And in any case, no one even asked the coaches what they think. She is one the team, so she has to pay the competition fees.

 

[IreneKa]

When is the first meet?

Really unfortunately I think it would be understood that competing was part of it. Those were the kind of questions that should of been asked when they joined. But can't go backward. So they need to have a conversation and go forward. Hopefully with a plan that works for everyone. I still twitch when I think about the stress of that first week.

The team manager was unavailable all of last week. So, they just kept bringing their DD to practices without having anyone to discuss all those details with. They did talk to the owner briefly last week, but the owner was only worried about them signing a waiver form, and paying the tuition, she didn't mentioned anything about the competitions.

 

[motigymnasticsmom]

When my DD changed from her recreational gym to team, they wanted her to start immediately. They emailed me the fees and such,(it was a sticker shock) we ended up switching mid season anyway, and I told the coach that she would not in any way compete immediately, but would the next year. We did it because DD wanted to learn the "harder stuff", and the only way around here is to do team(there is no recreational team close).

 

[Gym Beam]

The first meet is in October, but that one is full, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to add her. The next one is in December. The girl does want to compete, but I don't think she will be ready even by December. And in any case, no one even asked the coaches what they think. She is one the team, so she has to pay the competition fees.

If she wants to compete, that's already half the battle. If they placed her in Bronze, I would assume they feel she can compete by December, if not October. At this point, it's up to the parents if they want to pay the fees or pull her out.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I think that's very unfortunate.
Yes, if you accept to be on the team, it's implied that you are signing up for competing and responsible for all financial obligations.
However, there are instances where that can and should be worked around as long as all parties are in agreement. It seems what happened here is poor communication from all sides.... Parent needs to explicitly communicate that child does not want to compete this year (and risk going back to rec until the next convenient joining time which is usually spring/early summer...). Coach needs to communicate to parent AND office personnel if there is to be any exception to standard rules. Office personnel/team manager needs to pause and discuss with coach if there seems to be a major difference between what parent is under the impression of vs the standard rules/fees, then get back to parent ASAP when resolved.
We have had kids technically on the team (L3, our introductory team level) who has requested to not compete for the year. The coaching fees and tuition is the same regardless, they just won't pay the meet fees and won't have to purchase the competition uniform. It has always been an exception and only a couple of kids, but accommodations have been made.

I could be completely wrong, but Bronze is a very, very basic level, yes? And Xcel known to be slightly less strict on form etc. So your DDs friend probably COULd compete Bronze, she just wasn't mentally and financially prepared to make that commitment yet. Xcel is meant to be a lower cost, lower commitment alternative so hopefully your gym adheres to that and the fees aren't outrageous.
I would encourage her to give it a shot! I understand the mom feels a little blindsided right now, rightfully so, but the girl is older and will be able to pick things up faster than a 5yo. It could be a great thing for her to be "pushed" into competing a little sooner than she thought!

If she truly doesn't want to this year, I would sit down and chat with the coach or whoever is in charge of Xcel and ask if it would be better to return to advanced rec until a better time to join the Xcel team, and ask when that is. Make sure they let them know they are truly interested and want to join, but this is a little too soon. What if she asked to join a month or two from now, when season was already going? There would be no time to start routines etc, would she be allowed to practice and pay tuition/team fees then and not have to worry about competition fees?
Just throwing stuff out there to think about and commiserate!! I am sorry her Mom feels pressured and that you feel responsible. You thought there was a situation worked out and wires got crossed.

 

[MILgymFAM]

It's sad that they felt bumrushed by the fees and by competition, and it should have been hashed out before they switched. Sounds like a gym communication glitch. I can sort of see the gym side though. There really aren't all that many actual skills required in bronze. My DD started rec in late October, team in December, and had her first xcel bronze meet in January. She manage to place on bars and qualify to states (our state had a qualifying score for xcel and the gym set an even higher score). Even if she hadn't, it would have still been a fun experience for her. December seems like plenty of time for learning xcel bronze routines. Is it the money or the competing that's putting them off? Is the money all due at once- that I could understand being especially frustrating. One thing I have learned recently in gymnastics is to go right to the source. The parents should talk to whomever is making the decisions directly and explain their concerns.

 

[IreneKa]

It's sad that they felt bumrushed by the fees and by competition, and it should have been hashed out before they switched. Sounds like a gym communication glitch. I can sort of see the gym side though. There really aren't all that many actual skills required in bronze. My DD started rec in late October, team in December, and had her first xcel bronze meet in January. She manage to place on bars and qualify to states (our state had a qualifying score for xcel and the gym set an even higher score). Even if she hadn't, it would have still been a fun experience for her. December seems like plenty of time for learning xcel bronze routines. Is it the money or the competing that's putting them off? Is the money all due at once- that I could understand being especially frustrating. One thing I have learned recently in gymnastics is to go right to the source. The parents should talk to whomever is making the decisions directly and explain their concerns.

Exactly, that's what I told the mom, to go talk to the gym owner, she is ultimately the one making the decisions. I was just very surprised by how the team manager handled the situation. I know her well, she is one of the moms, and I thought of her as a reasonable person. I expected her to talk to the coaches or the owner first, not being like, either you are paying now or you are out. And it's not that they can't afford it, but they just didn't expect to have to pay that much money so soon.

And yes, I know bronze requirements are not that high, but the girl really has a very bad form. She can do BWO and FWO, but with very bent knees, very scary-looking BHS, etc. She has pullover on bars, but nothing else. Not sure about the vault and beam.

 

[gymdog]

This is not unsual at all, literally every gym I know of requires people to pay the team fees and compete if they are on team. Otherwise, everyone would want to move up but pay this and that and choose their own destiny. It's a competitive team. If you don't want to compete, you want an advanced rec class.

I'm honestly confused about why they want to sign up for team if they don't want to compete. It's literally the entire point. The only exception is injuries causing a gymnast to not compete.

The question you need to ask is "what's the closest fit for her skills level in the rec program?" Continuing to argue about it just ensures she is never going to be invited to move up for team again.

I'm not trying to be mean but I'm honestly kind of confused that anyone with gymnastics experience is shocked that a team manager would say the policy to practice with the team is that you have to compete. This is an extirely reasonable policy especially for an Xcel Bronze team where they can probably fill the spot later with someone who will compete and pay the fees. If she does Bronze, she doesn't have to do a FWO, BWO, or BHS.

 

[IreneKa]

I'm not trying to be mean but I'm honestly kind of confused that anyone with gymnastics experience is shocked that a team manager would say the policy to practice with the team is that you have to compete. This is an extirely reasonable policy especially for an Xcel Bronze team where they can probably fill the spot later with someone who will compete and pay the fees. If she does Bronze, she doesn't have to do a FWO, BWO, or BHS.

I know there are rules and policies, but we've been with this gym for 3 years, and I've seen them bending the rules many times, including with my own daughter. When she got injured, and we decided to pull her out for a month, according to the "policy" we had to still pay monthly tuition. I told them I didn't want to pay, they said fine. When she came back, I told them she is coming back for only 2 days a week, how much should I pay, they let me pay 50% of the tuition.
There were 3 girls on my DD's level 2\3 team who practiced with the team, but didn't compete.
This is not a "top notch" gym, there are much stronger programs in the areas. But one of the things I've always liked about our gym is how flexible they are, and willing to work with each individual family. And now they chose this family to impose their policies.

 

[duyetanh]

If she does Bronze, she doesn't need the tricks that are ugly. I know the Bronze girls at our gym don't have that stuff in their routines, with the exception of one girl who is staying Bronze because there are some Silver headaches not mastered. I seriously think she would be fine competing; it honestly sounds like sticker shock to the parents. Sorry about you being in the middle though, that rather bites, but truth to be told, you led them to it, and then it was their job to follow through. You can only feel so guilty.

 

[gymdog]

The injury situation is kind of different. Maybe they have changed the policies because of those 3 girls in level 2/3. Also, maybe the bronze team is almost full or has a waiting list or other potential rec members they could offer spots to. I think if you are saying "now they chose this family to impose their policies" you are taking this too personally. It's 100% reasonable for them to say she needs to sign up to compete to be in Xcel Bronze. It's also their right to use their discretion at times. This is a private business and team is invitation only.

 

[QueenBee]

Maybe I am off base here, but it also sounds like you might have told your friend that the gym "would work with her" because that had been your experience with the gym (personally and from other people). If that is the case - I hope you have now realized that you shouldn't promise something that you don't have the actual authority to give.

It is not unreasonable for your friend to have to pay the fees outlined by the team manager. If she wants her daughter to do Xcel team. If she just wanted a more rigorous rec program then maybe she should investigate other gyms.

Ultimately, gyms are running businesses. And if they give a "special deal" to every person who walks into their doors, they run the risk of not being able to keep track of who has what deal, and more importantly - they run the risk of not covering the overhead on running a successful business. If you want to play - you need to pay.

 

[IreneKa]

Maybe I am off base here, but it also sounds like you might have told your friend that the gym "would work with her" because that had been your experience with the gym (personally and from other people). If that is the case - I hope you have now realized that you shouldn't promise something that you don't have the actual authority to give.

No, you are exactly right. I told them they can work something out based on my previous experience, but apparently I was wrong.

 

[duyetanh]

No, you are exactly right. I told them they can work something out based on my previous experience, but apparently I was wrong.

Oh argh. That bites. I guess all you can say is you are sorry. You aren't the coaches and owners afterall...