WAG Frustration - sorry this is long and really just me venting

[raenndrops]

Gymmie is 11 and L6, she is frustrated with her coaches. I dont' blame her at all. Our HC is great, but non-confrontational, and there is only one of her and 78 girls + 16 developmentals. Or "other coaches" have some good traits they bring to the team, but it is almost constant drama.
I have gone to HC and Gym owner in the past for the floor coach saying "I hate you all" "I hate coaching you" She does battle a chronic illness and MH illness, but IMO if you come to work you need to be professional and appropraite. Yesterday she told gymmie "I'm too sick to push play" for her floor and got mad b/c gymmie can't reach tall enough to see to change the input on the stereo. (she 5' tall, but I agree it is hard to see the buttons and usually the girls don't work the stereo so she didn't know. She also told gymmie that her LO sucked, she hates her floor (we changed from 1:30 music to 1:15 music and nothing changed except her beginning and one dance pass got omitted - we had already bought music for both, HC said 1:30 b/c "never took overtime deductions last season" but they have at 2/3 of our meets. gymmie's tired of losing a tenth for no reason). Interestingly, the floor coach doesn't choreograph or do any "cleaning" of the floor routines. The beam coach and a floor choreo (who is on maternity leave) wrote the floors. Beam coach reworked gymmies floor over break. But told gymmie last Friday "I don't have any time for you. I am booked until after season". She also told the girls that they were taking out the series on beam (since they don't need it and she is always telling them they are getting hammered on it - bent knees in BWO-BWO for my dd) So Friday she worked her beam w/o them (starts on other side so can dismount the same way), beam coach said "I'll work with you al saturday" but didn't. We have a meet friday and at practice yesterday seemed to have no idea why the girls would be taking out the series they didn't need in the first place. DD felt like float coach was all over her on bars for her clear hip, beam coach is not being consistent and is giving them the cold shoulder (upper optionals seems to have paid off the coaches recently as they only seem to care about them) (we have 9 6's, 1 7, 8 8's and 1 10 who is not competing)
I offered to call gym owner and see if he would let her in today for a private, but she thinks she is ok. We have a beam and she can mark her floor here with music. I just feel like the coaches are not focused and in tune with where the girls are in the season. we are 8 weeks for states and have 3 meets between now and then.
DD is moving from the 10-11 yo who wants to please coaches to the pre-teen who just nods smiles and tries to blow off their drama (the coaches). I hate seeing the passive aggressive and negative coaching. I am all for strict, corrections, high expectations...but the you suck, that sucked, I hate you, I hate coaching you, that was awful etc...that is not constructive coaching

We had a coach similar to your floor coach, but nobody said anything for a while ... I always left early, or I would have heard it and spoken up. The final straw was one night as I was leaving. One of our Old L6 had just done her floor routine and went over to ask what she could fix. The coach stood there with her arms crossed and didn't say anything at first (I witnessed that part as I was walking past, and stopped at the slowest vending machine in the world in the lobby before leaving). As I was getting ready to walk out the door, this gymnast ran into the lobby crying with her little sister following her.
Turns out that the coach had been "too disgusted to say anything" about the routine... which I had seen... and I only had a couple of corrections for her to make. It would be "a waste of time" to tell the girl to "start with the beginning and fix EVERYTHING and MAYBE it'll score a 6.0 IF you're lucky." Turns out this coach would tell girls that she hated them or didn't want to waste her time coaching them... would "spot" them on back tucks in practice by throwing them really high and (hoping) they would flip and land safely???

Before I had a chance to go in and talk to HC, little sister had gone back in and SHE told HC, who came out and talked to the older sister and to me... then she went back into the gym. I was running extremely late by this point, so I had to go home. Practice was over about that time. The next day, HC let me know that she had fired that coach. She wouldn't tolerate behavior like that out of her coaches. Lol, on FB, the coach made it out like she had left to get ready to go off to college (because, apparently, it takes a month to get ready, and you can't do that around a job that takes up 8 hours a week of your life).

 

[gymratmom]

Wow, I cannot imagine our coaches getting away with this behavior. We have been at two gyms (left the first due to not having optional program) and I have never experienced anything like this. We have tough love but that does not equal abuse. And you are paying for this! Would anyone put up with teachers treating students in this manner? The worst part is that this seems like a fairly common experience. Sad that this is something parents feel like they have to put up with. I wonder if it is more prevalent in areas with more limited options for gyms? We are fortunate to have several great options anywhere from 15-45 minutes away. Bottom line, this is a business and if they start losing customers they have to make a change. I'd be the first one out the door.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

Wow! Talk about reading a post just when I needed to read it!

DD has been dealing with something similar the past few months. Lately DD has been sitting out events coached by one coach and when I asked her about it she said she sat out because she didn't feel like anything she did during that rotation would be good enough for the coach--there would be something major wrong with what she was doing and if she questioned what was wrong she was bounced from practice for having a bad attitude (never mind the teenagers can throw all the attitude they want without consequences). So, to her 10 year old mind, she headed the coach off and sat herself out since that is where it would have ended anyway. When I attempted to speak with the coach I was told that DD is nothing but a diva with a poor attitude who is uncoachable. It was difficult to hear, as DD has never thrown attitude at any coach (confirmed by my own observation of random practices and by other coaches who have worked with her throughout the practices). I then asked the coach that if DD was as she just described, how did she take 3rd at a major meet that drew competitive teams from several different states with a fall on an event? And further, one of the girls who placed higher than DD was repeating 6 and the other is just really, really good (DD is usually in the age group above her but as Jrs they usually end up in the same session at most meets). If she is so 'uncoachable' how did she score a mid-9 on an event she rarely touched the 2 weeks in practice before the meet (as a result of having been bounced from practice for attitude)? The coach said she got lucky to get podium (I'm guessing the other 20 or so girls all had major mistakes?) and scoring so well on a cold event just proves the coach's belief that she is not putting 100% into practice.

The past few months I have been sitting on the fence about switching gyms. I had already paid everything for this season so I knew the switch, if it occurred, would come after season. HC 'warned' (for lack of a better word) me that the gymnastics community is very, very small and I should 'be careful' when talking to other gyms as word would get back to her. I have spoken with DD and she said she didn't care of HC punished her for talking to other coaches, she is miserable for half of practice and could put up with it if she knew it was only temporary. While the coach has not explicitly told DD or myself that she does not like her, she has said as much. Instead of talking to DD about whatever issues they have with each other, the coach has decided the easier path is to chalk it up to another uncoachable kid and move on. Reading your post has only toughened my resolve to ignore the 'warning' and take DD to a gym that will coach her to her ability, not her age.

 

[Faolmor]

Wow...I'm just...wow.

I know I'm super, super spoilt with DD's gym...but it does make me wonder why some people actually get into coaching children when they just genuinely don't like them or want to work with them. But - and here's where I'm obviously naiive...you'd kinda think, that EVEN if you didn't like kids, but still loved coaching...you'd think a personal sense of dignity and self-respect would encourage you to behave like the ADULT in the child-coach relationship??

Or not?

If a coach treated my child like a piece of dirt in an effort to bully them into making an effort they no longer wish to make, in a sport they used to LOVE...there would be WORDS. And because I like to practice what I preach, they would be dignified and self-respecting words...but I'd be thinking all the OTHER words.

 

[windydays]

Good Lord! Find another program. There are actually coaches who like what they do and are invested in the kids they coach.

 

[GYM0M]

Good Lord! Find another program. There are actually coaches who like what they do and are invested in the kids they coach.

Yep yep!!!

 

[alongfortheride]

The moment any adult in authority over any of my children said, "I hate you all", that would be the last time they were in a position of authority over my children. I don't care if it were at the gym, school, wherever. . .to me, that is verbal abuse.

 

[GYM0M]

The moment any adult in authority over any of my children said, "I hate you all", that would be the last time they were in a position of authority over my children. I don't care if it were at the gym, school, wherever. . .to me, that is verbal abuse.

And it would take every ounce of restraint within me not to 'put them in their place.' Coming from someone who has seen her fair share of emotional abuse, I have worked VERY hard to ensure my children have a positive self image! I'll be danged if I'm gonna let some insecure and unstable adult tear down the fortress of self worth I have built within any of my children!!!!

 

[Gymdancer]

We have had to move our DD due to a similar situation. Just get her out of there and find a coach who will treat her the way she deserves to be treated.

And one thing to add, Dunno:

Give me tons of $ to be this way to your kid!

 

[GymCMLA]

Update - mostly to help me organize my feelings - like a journal with friend who "get it".
Monday night beam coach went on a tirade (every beam rotation starts with a 15 minute lecture) this time about how sad and disappointed she was that they weren't getting 9.5's on beam. And other teams were. (now the girls did well at circle of stars, first team in their session, I think 7th over all. Many kids had personal best routines, nothing to be sad about at all.) DD said she was telling them it was their job to get gymnastics back to where it "used to be as a sport" She also told them to to "listen to all of this and don't go running home to tell your parents".
I can't accept that at all, kids should never, ever be told to not tell their parents anything....abuse, drugs, bullying.... they should *always* tell their parents if something "felt wrong".
I reached out to HC and GO. I got the "we'll be in touch" and "we'll get tot he bottom of it".
I fear dd will be blackballed b/c I spoke up, but this is a concrete no no in my book. I think I will stay for much of practice tonight (my yDD has 3 yo preschool class and 6 yo has TnT pre team so I am there for the first 115 min anyway. I may linger some)
I also reached out to the next closest respectable gym to ask about post season eval for transfer. Luckily dd has been to camp there and the owner/HC knows of her. we also have 4 other team mates who left for there last season.
This is hard I feel guilt for speaking up and I worry it will negatively affect my dd for the next few months. I know I shouldn't feel guilt, but I do.

 

[munchkin3]

Red flag, red flag......go with your gut, once you decide, you will feel much better. It's the not having a clear solution that is awful!
Do what it's right for your DD.......gymnastics is hard enough! No reason for anyone to make it HARDER!
Good luck,

 

[sce]

Update - mostly to help me organize my feelings - like a journal with friend who "get it".
Monday night beam coach went on a tirade (every beam rotation starts with a 15 minute lecture) this time about how sad and disappointed she was that they weren't getting 9.5's on beam. And other teams were. (now the girls did well at circle of stars, first team in their session, I think 7th over all. Many kids had personal best routines, nothing to be sad about at all.) DD said she was telling them it was their job to get gymnastics back to where it "used to be as a sport" She also told them to to "listen to all of this and don't go running home to tell your parents".
I can't accept that at all, kids should never, ever be told to not tell their parents anything....abuse, drugs, bullying.... they should *always* tell their parents if something "felt wrong".
I reached out to HC and GO. I got the "we'll be in touch" and "we'll get tot he bottom of it".
I fear dd will be blackballed b/c I spoke up, but this is a concrete no no in my book. I think I will stay for much of practice tonight (my yDD has 3 yo preschool class and 6 yo has TnT pre team so I am there for the first 115 min anyway. I may linger some)
I also reached out to the next closest respectable gym to ask about post season eval for transfer. Luckily dd has been to camp there and the owner/HC knows of her. we also have 4 other team mates who left for there last season.
This is hard I feel guilt for speaking up and I worry it will negatively affect my dd for the next few months. I know I shouldn't feel guilt, but I do.

None of that is OK. Lectures do not improve routines. I also agree, kids should never be told, "Don't tell your parents."

 

[windydays]

I have always taught my children when someone tells them, "Do not tell your parents, mom, etc." they need to tell us or another trusted adult exactly what happened.

We also understand that you can't fix what you don't acknowledge. So if the coach, HC, and/or owner don't want to address the issue, it will not get fixed. And we have seen first hand problems not getting fixed and other problems transpiring. To that end, there are great coaches, HC, and/or owners that address problems as well as educate their staff, gymnasts, and parents about expectations in their gym. Find a gym that does the latter

 

[SignHere]

Is this the same as when coaches do alot of yelling? .... Some of the other girls on team are mean to her, i know that, but I told her she is there for her and not them and not to let them bother her. And of course you have the coaches favorites...who feel the need to hang all over the coaches every single free moment they get. Told my dd not to kiss a$$ to get where she wants to get.

Sounds like a toxic environment. Personally, I find the " cuddling and hugging" relationship inappropriate after, say, preschool? If coaches want that, they should be teaching 3 yr old classes.

At DDs old gym, there were a few girls who were cuddlers, sat in coaches' laps, and hugged them after nearly every practice. They were clearly the favorites. DD is not like that, so her relationship with those coaches was a bit ... Strained ... I think. I moved her to a new gym and the coaches are very nice to the kids, but the it's more of a high five type relationship. DD really likes all her coaches and is so happy with the move.

 

[gracyomalley]

Agree that the cuddling/favorites stuff is toxic too - was for DD with old HC. However, also agree that the lecture didn't sound appropriate if it couldn't be shared with parents - confident coaches don't need to hide from the parents.

DD has newish beam coach - old L9 gymnast, just learning to coach. She has a lot to offer, but came on very strong with the girls, many of whom had moved from a much less strict training and competing environment. Lots of days the girls were crying - even the older, very stoic ones. The parents gave it a month or 2, then mentionned to the HC that the girls didn't know "how to interact with her" and were afraid to speak up, etc. Some, like my DD, just ended up not working well with her because they didn't feel she listened to them (DD isn't competing so doesn't have "routines to work" - but this coach continuously asked her to get up on beam and do 10 routines....and DD was afraid to insist that she had been given other things to work on by HC - which she has a list of and could show the beam coach, but didn't want to cause trouble, get in trouble - so ended up sulking/not working hard while doing old routines she'll never compete again, etc).

DD tells me the young coach sat with them yesterday and talked to them about her approach, what she expects from the girls, that she wants them to speak up, tell her when they are hurt or tired, etc. That she wants to be strict but not mean, etc. That she is hoping to help them reach a higher level of gymnastics but that it will take time and hard work. DD felt good about this talk - said "that's what I thought she was doing but its nice to hear her say it".

My point is that the girls will and SHOULD tell their parents what the coaches say - AND that the kids need to learn to speak up for themselves also. I actually like her firm approach - but also that she had to confidence to speak with the girls about it. I am certain the HC spoke with her - and then let her handle it. I also know that she was never abusive - although she did tell them straight out that knees looked "terrible", that they can stick 10 series or keep working, etc. These are L7.5 (would have been 8 at previous gym) and up kids, though, and need someone to be honest with them if they still are bending legs on BWO, etc....IMHO. Had she been telling them they were "failures" for not scoring 9.5 (which wins ANY meet on beam in our region, BTW, so maybe different in yours), I'd feel differently!

 

[gymmomtoo]

I don't have a problem with lectures after a bad or disappointing meet, but having them tell the girls not to tell their parents is definitely NOT a good thing.

 

[GymCMLA]

what's funny about the "bad and disappointing meet" was they won their session, most if not all improved their AA scores. We were the 5th team over all at circle of stars at L6. So it wasn't a "sad and disappointing meet". And the lectures are every.single.day to start that rotation.

On another note. I reached out the the potential new gym HC/owner and he doesn't have much (if any) room for an incoming optional. So he has asked me to send videos. I've never had to do that. But I can only do what I can do and send what I have and trust that "if it is a good fit" he will see that and if it isn't he will save of the trouble of moving.

 

[profmom]

I really hope the move works out for you.

While your coach sounds like a piece of work, your anecdote reminds me of the time last year that the boys took first place team at a big meet but the coach was up one side of their heads and down the other because a bunch of them missed handstand holds on pbars. If done in the right way, I think there's room for a coach to be happy with an outcome and disappointed with a team's execution on a particular event. But this coach did it the right way -- told them he was very proud of what they accomplished at the meet, and then that every single boy owed him ten swing handstand holds and they weren't leaving the event until he got them. The way he put it is that they had just proven they were too good to be missing this sort of stuff.

This anecdote also reveals another very important distinction. There's a huge difference between scolding a team for missing skills versus scolding a team for not achieving particular scores. Any coach who's been around the block a time or two should know better than to do the latter.

So I reiterate: hope the move can happen!!

 

[GymCMLA]

DD had a bad day on bars at our travel meet (beam coach was with us). She went over on her cast to handstand after being "stuck" in her HS for what seemed forever. She was crushed. Coach sneered at her after she was done "you didnt' even try to fight for it"
Then after a really good floor (best score and best front pass all year) coach said "well, finally".
I am so sad for DD. I am so in limbo about being upfront with HC and gym owner now about leaving, but I know I have to wait until April after States. DD has a "eval" with E.T. (potential new gym's head coach) the week after states. I am nervous about moving her, nervous about my TnT boys who will stay (their HC is great), nervous about E.T. not having a spot for her/not wanting her.
She doesn't want to quit, but I can't leave her in this culture of passive aggressive and emotionally inappropriate coaching situation with beam and floor coaches.
@dunno, you know everyone and I get the feeling you are form our region. May I PM you beam coaches name, I am guessing you know of her at least.

 

[Ali'sMom]

She doesn't want to quit, but I can't leave her in this culture of passive aggressive and emotionally inappropriate coaching situation with beam and floor coaches.

I 100% agree.

Godspeed to States, and good luck at eval!