Parents Frustration with Xcel

[mls529]

So, given all that has been discussed, do you all feel like JO meets are more “fair” in the sense that everyone is on the same page about what the goals are? It seems like with JO everyone is working their butt off (though I realize training hours can vary gym to gym) to try and get and compete the same skills give or take, and most parents and gymnasts know what to expect. We were at another meet over the weekend where only Xcel Silver teams were present, but there was no consistency with routines/skills being competed/skill level from team to team, because apparently everyone’s version of what Xcel is or should be, is different (as discussed above). Seemed like apples were competing against oranges in many cases!

Honestly, having experienced both JO and XCel, I don't think one is "more fair". Even in JO, there are gyms with really different philosophies -- homeschool, only taking tiny 7 year olds on team, teams that have less stringent requirements, gyms who measure success by college scholarships. That is why I told the OP that she and her DD are happy with her gym, their philosophy and their personal goals, you really can't worry about placements. You can go to meets that are enjoyable, but otherwise you just have to sit back and watch your kid out there doing what they love.

 

[raenndrops]

Does xcel have qualification for state scores? Mobility scores? We are at a very low hours gym 4 for level 3 and 6-8 for level 4 and 8 for level 5. Our state score is. 34 which is a good goal for our girls with their hours. This is what our girls focus on and then we have an in house meet with medals and go to a couple very small meets where we know the teams are similar.

In our state, Xcel does have qualification for state scores.
And USAG sets mobility scores. It is 31 to move up Silver to Gold ... Gold to Platinum ... and Platinum to Diamond.

 

[raenndrops]

So, given all that has been discussed, do you all feel like JO meets are more “fair” in the sense that everyone is on the same page about what the goals are? It seems like with JO everyone is working their butt off (though I realize training hours can vary gym to gym) to try and get and compete the same skills give or take, and most parents and gymnasts know what to expect. We were at another meet over the weekend where only Xcel Silver teams were present, but there was no consistency with routines/skills being competed/skill level from team to team, because apparently everyone’s version of what Xcel is or should be, is different (as discussed above). Seemed like apples were competing against oranges in many cases!

JO meets aren't more "fair" and not everyone is on the same page about goals. Some gyms are all about scores. Some are all about skills - cookie cutter skills or different skills, depending on the gym. Some gyms are about getting girls to college. Some only accept the BEST gymnasts. Some are more inclusive.

In Xcel, there are only 5 divisions, so the skill range is wider. In Silver, They can compete basic routines up to basically L4 routines. IF the gym is doing its job, they will choreograph routines to suit the gymnast (like JO Optionals should do). This means that you might see a lot more variety in Silver. Some gyms want to keep girls in Silver until they have maxed out routines AND have skills "waiting in the wings" that they can't compete yet due to restrictions AND are scoring well. Then they move them to Gold (where their old Silver routines would have been fine... and bordering on high end) and they compete their harder skills. I have seen Gold routines that were basically L7 routines... and routines that were closer to L3/4, depending on the event.

In either JO or Xcel, the takeaway is that the CLEANEST routines score highest as long as they meet the requirements.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So, given all that has been discussed, do you all feel like JO meets are more “fair” in the sense that everyone is on the same page about what the goals are? It seems like with JO everyone is working their butt off (though I realize training hours can vary gym to gym) to try and get and compete the same skills give or take, and most parents and gymnasts know what to expect. We were at another meet over the weekend where only Xcel Silver teams were present, but there was no consistency with routines/skills being competed/skill level from team to team, because apparently everyone’s version of what Xcel is or should be, is different (as discussed above). Seemed like apples were competing against oranges in many cases!

No “fair” as in not the same or equal the answer is No.

Fair in that you know it’s all different and it’s not a secret or “breaking official rules” then it’s fair.

Gyms train differently. In many ways besides just more or less hours.
And gyms and gymmies goals are different. Their timelines are different.

You will have kids training 20 plus hours going up against kids training 12. It is what it is. And it’s fair. Not against the rules and everyone knows it.

Some gyms are about scoring well. Some gyms are about getting a gymmie ready for the next thing, even if their scores take a hit.

Some gyms will have kids repeat a level based on meeting a minimum score for their gym then they actually need to move on. Those kids (who are repeating because they didn’t get a 37) compete against kids doing the Level for the first time, it won’t look (or in my opinion be) fair. But it is because it’s not against the rules.

Some gyms will let kids compete higher level, with weaker skills (comparatively speaking).

Other gyms will keep kids back competitively a level to be more successful at meets.

There are no must move on rules.

There are differences in skills they can compete. A few differences in compulsories, more in Optionals.

You will see things like a gymmie competing a giant will not score as well as a gymmie without one. A gymmie doing a BWO beating a BHS. A gymmie doing no backward tumbling beat one who does. All fair if it meets the routine requirements. Cleanest scores best.

You do what works best for your gymmie. At least we do.

 

[SHELOVESGYM]

Yes, I agree with all those who have said that there is "unfairness" throughout the sport (and perhaps in all sports!). When DD was in JO she trained 6 hours per week all summer for level 3, and was up against girls who had done 25 hours per week in tops programs all summer and were competing the same level. It seemed very unfair. In xcel I have a hard time not getting frustrated when I see girls who compete much more simple skills than DD, yet score much higher. It's never going to be an equal playing field unfortunately.

 

[reluctant]

Yes, I agree with all those who have said that there is "unfairness" throughout the sport (and perhaps in all sports!). When DD was in JO she trained 6 hours per week all summer for level 3, and was up against girls who had done 25 hours per week in tops programs all summer and were competing the same level. It seemed very unfair. In xcel I have a hard time not getting frustrated when I see girls who compete much more simple skills than DD, yet score much higher. It's never going to be an equal playing field unfortunately.

But isn't this true in any sport? My kids work hard and I tell them to focus on their personal progress-- not the score and definitely not their placement.

 

[SHELOVESGYM]

But isn't this true in any sport? My kids work hard and I tell them to focus on their personal progress-- not the score and definitely not their placement.

Yes -that was exactly my point -it's never going to be a completely level playing field in JO, xcel, and in any other sport.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

In xcel I have a hard time not getting frustrated when I see girls who compete much more simple skills than DD, yet score much higher. It's never going to be an equal playing field unfortunately.

This was why we switched from Xcel to JO. It was too frustrating to watch simple routines easily perfected best out DD’s harder routines.

 

[raenndrops]

This was why we switched from Xcel to JO. It was too frustrating to watch simple routines easily perfected best out DD’s harder routines.

But that happens in Level 6 and Level 7 too.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But that happens in Level 6 and Level 7 too.

Yep, all the time.

 

[John]

But that happens in Level 6 and Level 7 too.

Oh so true. Two pass versus three pass. Dancing in corners versus utilizing the entire floor.

 

[Carly]

But that happens in Level 6 and Level 7 too.

I agree. We've seen a huge variety of beam connections in level 7. Cartwheel/cartwheel, front walkover/tick tock, handstand/backhandspring, back stepout/back stepout to back tuck dismount.

 

[raenndrops]

I agree. We've seen a huge variety of beam connections in level 7. Cartwheel/cartwheel, front walkover/tick tock, handstand/backhandspring, back stepout/back stepout to back tuck dismount.

And Level 6... 2 second handstand versus Cartwheel versus dive cartwheel versus RO versus tick-tock versus BWO versus BHS versus FWO versus FHS versus a series on beam.
On floor - RO2BHS versus ROBHSBT versus ROBHSBLO versus ROBHSFull and FT versus FP versus FLO versus ROBT versus FHSFT versus FHSFP and so on and so forth.

 

[LindyHopper]

And Level 6... 2 second handstand versus Cartwheel versus dive cartwheel versus RO versus tick-tock versus BWO versus BHS versus FWO versus FHS versus a series on beam.
On floor - RO2BHS versus ROBHSBT versus ROBHSBLO versus ROBHSFull and FT versus FP versus FLO versus ROBT versus FHSFT versus FHSFP and so on and so forth.

But isn't that what is great about optionals? The ability to play to one's strengths and minimize one's weaknesses?

 

[kmc]

But isn't that what is great about optionals? The ability to play to one's strengths and minimize one's weaknesses?

Yes, but those responses were in response to this post below, to point out it isn't just an Xcel issue:

This was why we switched from Xcel to JO. It was too frustrating to watch simple routines easily perfected best out DD’s harder routines.

 

[raenndrops]

But isn't that what is great about optionals? The ability to play to one's strengths and minimize one's weaknesses?

Exactly. This thread was complaining about easier routines in Xcel beating harder ones. We were demonstrating that it is the same in JO

 

[NY Dad]

But every kid who plays a sport wants to know they have a shot, and that the playing field is level. At the risk of sounding like a whiny whiner, it just doesn’t seem fair! Can someone explain to me why this is ok and how these gyms can feel good about themselves coming to these meets and sweeping the podium with their “Xcel” gymnasts who everyone knows are not training the way Xcel gymnasts are meant to train?

I know I'm late to the conversation but I figured I would join in. My dd is in USAIGC Copper 1. This is the lowest level in USAIGC. The skill level is between JO1 and JO2. My understanding is that Copper 1 is only for the first season of competition and unless a girl never breaks a 28 (in which case she would repeat), she would compete Copper 2 (or I guess higher) the next season.

The only differences between Copper 1 and Copper 2 are:

• BSH on floor added at Copper 2
• Copper 1 is only for the first season of competition

I found out that at least one of the girls that my dd will compete against at her next meet was a Copper 1 last season. All of the meets from last season that have results posted this girl scored well over 28. This season this girl is competing Copper 1 again and has been at or near the top of the podium for all of the meets that are posted. I would love to say that my dd that doesn’t care about placement but she does. I wish I could tell my dd that life is fair but it’s not.

This happens at all levels.

 

[momof2gymmies]

My girls do xcel, and our gym def has harder requirements to move up than most of the gyms I read of on here. YDD is repeating silver, b/c they MUST do two years at each level, regardless of how they scored. This is our gym rule. Smetimes the kids do 3 years. We actually have one doing a 4th year of silver. YDD is on her second year of kipping, second year of doing robhsbt. She has had her fly away and bhs on beam since the end of last year, but can't compete them. However she will be required to compete them by our gym next year as a gold. She was not allowed to move to silver until she had both kips and both tucks on floor.

With that being said, both of my girls score and place fine at meets. Ydd has come in second at both her meets this year. She lost by .1 to her friend from our gym both times. So doing the harder routines does not mean they will not score as well. They just need to do the routine cleanly. YDD's tuck needs to be cleaner than someone elses cartwheel. She is averaging 37-37.5 this year.
Having said that, xcel is very competitive in our state. The girls have exactly one meet to qualify for states. They take the top 190 from 3 different places, all running the same weekend. Age groups do not matter. So you could have an amazing season and mess up one day and not make states. qualifing to regionals is even harder. Last year they took 39 girls from more than 500.

 

[MuggleMom]

Every time my kid says "that's not fair" I ask her "Who told you life is fair?" I say it half in jest but I continue to make the point with her that things are not always fair and sometimes we just have to move on with life. We had a meet earlier this year where a level 3 got a 9.9 on Floor. I was was impressed but investigated a little deeper on my meet scores...same kid scored a 38+ at level 3 state the year before...why is a kid who is scoring a 38+ at state repeating a level? Is it fair that my little nugget has to go against that? Maybe not but the girl had a beautiful routine and she did earn that score so we just move on with life.

 

[LindyHopper]

same kid scored a 38+ at level 3 state the year before...why is a kid who is scoring a 38+ at state repeating a level? Is it fair that my little nugget has to go against that? Maybe not but the girl had a beautiful routine and she did earn that score so we just move on with life.

And I would also say for the 38+ repeater, that her gym is being unfair to her by making her repeat when she is repeating after averaging 38+ the previous season. It's unfair to hold her back when she should probably have been a L4 this season (only reason I could see to hold her back would be if she didn't have a kip)

So it's unfair from so many perspectives. It just stinks.