WAG Gymnastics is F*****

[skschlag]

Maybe I missed it but ,,,,,,parents ??? Some horrible coaching yes but Does she remember them pushing her through this ? Sorry folks but some really delusional whacko pushy parents that will do anything (including putting their child at risk ) to move to the next level. And they don’t listen ... I remember telling dozens of parent parents over the years that it isn’t safe to move a child up. I remember them leaving to others gyms. I remember watching them struggling that year and repeating the next year only to quit the next.
I remember telling a parent that I would not allow her child to return to the sport because of chronic back issues that lasted over a year and a half. I remember getting hated on by the parents . I remember pleading with the coach from another Gym to take it easy on her and “help her to retire “. I remember other parents on my team being upset at me because the owner of that gym told them I said that ... I remember that child going to the other gym to fulfill her parents dream. I remember hearing that she was conditioning for 2 months at that gym and ready to start again . I remember thinking if I had made the correct decision... I remember hearing that after a week of actual Gymnastics she was in horrendous pain and was basically Bed ridden... I remember seeing her a year later .... (my baby who I brought up from level 4 and retired as a 9 Trying to go 10.).. I remember hugging her .... I remember being choked up.... I remember her coming back into the gym 5 months ago after being retired for several years... I remember her telling me that she just had her second back surgery ..... I remember being so angry ..... I Remeber hugging her again and her telling me that “she now understood why I did what I did ..”. I remember thinking , could i of done more .... I remember telling her that “I am sorry that this happened to you”...

I remember other memories with other parents and kids as well... so while I agree that we as coaches push and drive and do stupid harmful stuff... I also know that parents can be just as destructive, and worse yet , enablers .... ....

See my above post. I did notice when she went back out into the gym, the coach had her doing things that did not test her foot much. So I am hoping she has some good coaches....

 

[bogwoppit]

Maybe I missed it but ,,,,,,parents ??? Some horrible coaching yes but Does she remember them pushing her through this ? Sorry folks but some really delusional whacko pushy parents that will do anything (including putting their child at risk ) to move to the next level. And they don’t listen ... I remember telling dozens of parent parents over the years that it isn’t safe to move a child up. I remember them leaving to others gyms. I remember watching them struggling that year and repeating the next year only to quit the next.
I remember telling a parent that I would not allow her child to return to the sport because of chronic back issues that lasted over a year and a half. I remember getting hated on by the parents . I remember pleading with the coach from another Gym to take it easy on her and “help her to retire “. I remember other parents on my team being upset at me because the owner of that gym told them I said that ... I remember that child going to the other gym to fulfill her parents dream. I remember hearing that she was conditioning for 2 months at that gym and ready to start again . I remember thinking if I had made the correct decision... I remember hearing that after a week of actual Gymnastics she was in horrendous pain and was basically Bed ridden... I remember seeing her a year later .... (my baby who I brought up from level 4 and retired as a 9 Trying to go 10.).. I remember hugging her .... I remember being choked up.... I remember her coming back into the gym 5 months ago after being retired for several years... I remember her telling me that she just had her second back surgery ..... I remember being so angry ..... I Remeber hugging her again and her telling me that “she now understood why I did what I did ..”. I remember thinking , could i of done more .... I remember telling her that “I am sorry that this happened to you”...

I remember other memories with other parents and kids as well... so while I agree that we as coaches push and drive and do stupid harmful stuff... I also know that parents can be just as destructive, and worse yet , enablers .... ....

Oh I agree with that. Lots of parents see their kids being bullied, in a way they would never tolerate at school, and keep going "because there are no other options". I have have told many people here to walk out the door, and they don't. Lots of enablers for sure. Like abused spouses.

 

[kitkat]

This article made me sad but I have totally seem this during my DD career. I feel it's a lot more aggressive for kids who are pathing elite/national. In my opinion those kids get it a lot worse then a age 12 level 6 gymnast does .
Sadly some coaches that we have witnessed along the way forget that these girls are just kids who have matured beyond their years.
My DD last club was by far the worst in terms of mental and verbal abuse. I would watch, hear and witness some of the comments said to the gymnast and say to the other parents are you not going to say anything. They are living and hoping for this dream that they have been fed that their DD is going to the Olympics.
My daughter drives by her old gym now and almost throws up thinking about her training there. It gives her anxiety beyond belief.
A coach from her old gym actually said to me that my dd and her coaches relationship was like an abusive husband and wife relationship. When I heard that and realized how unhappy she was it didn't take me long to pull her out. (Less then 2 months)
We have seen this in other gyms as well.

Her current gym is the complete opposite and fosters healthy happy gymnast with great coaching. So it does exist out there. It can still be a great sport . People have to be not afraid to step up for their children. I would never allow a school teacher to speak to or teach my child this way. And I was not going to allow a gymnastics coach to treat her the way he did.

 

[atlnon]

Oh I agree with that. Lots of parents see their kids being bullied, in a way they would never tolerate at school, and keep going "because there are no other options". I have have told many people here to walk out the door, and they don't. Lots of enablers for sure. Like abused spouses.

Wow. Very powerful article. I agree with crazy pushy parents. However, for normal non-crazy parents, it's hard to really know what's going on. We are asked to drop off our kids at the gym, and stay the heck away and not watch. It's very different from all the other sports that my other kids have been involved in. I get the feeling that the coaches wants us parents as ignorant of the sports in general, and what's happening in the gym in particular, as much as possible so that we won't mess up with what the coaches are working on with the kids. We are asked to trust them fully, way much more than we have to with other sports. There are no transparency and regular discussions with parents as to how our kid are progressing and what they are struggling with. After not knowing what's happening in the gym during months of practice, we are just expected to show up in the meets to have an idea of what my daughter has learned and how much she's progressed, and how she's progressing compared to others in her team. I've been told by coaches and articles I read to not discuss gymnastics with my daughter unless she initiates it, and I've been abiding by that. I just ask her if she had a good practice whenever I pick her up from the gym. So far, I think she's had good coaches as she still enjoys the sports and she doesn't quiver in fear when she goes to the gym. Most of her coaches doesn't really spend time with the parents. But I've often wondered if I really know what's happening or just be surprised one day when she suddenly breaks down emotionally and physically.

And to add to all of this, this is the only sports that demands year round 15+ hrs/week practice. All the sports that my other kids participated in stress the importance of rest and playing different sports, and not specializing. A lot of kids still end up specializing, and a lot of coaches encourages the really good kids to specialize, but these are all done with some level of discretion. Gymnastics is the only sport that openly demands year round practice as the accepted best practice. The coach tells us that gymnastics is different from other sports, and that not doing year round actually is more harmful and dangerous for the kids. Again, all I can do is trust the coach but I've always wondered if this is really good for their body or not.

My daughter started late (6 yrs old) but was fast tracked earlier on. She fell down to the middle of the pack towards level 5 and 6. She's now 11 yrs old and in level 7, while half of her team skipped level 7 and is now at level 8. I told her that I am not worried about it and neither should she. I prefer that she develops slowly and safely, and the most important thing is she continue to enjoy the sports. I am now thankful that she is not as talented as the other girls to allow her to develop with less pressure. I also remind her every time that she can quit anytime she wants to.

 

[John]

@atlnon You certainly do describe the current culture of gymnastics. I am an outlier. I do not follow all the advice given here or by coaches. I have chosen to educate myself on gymnastics and I watch practice regularly. The athletes need to advocate for themselves or they need someone to teach them how to do it. I would like the culture to change, I hope more parents push back on the rules when the time seems to be right to do so. I am starved to see positive encouragement and coach-athlete interaction/discussion become the norm. Example: It does no good to send an athlete off the floor or equipment to sit out when fear or a block enters training. A coach should consult with the athlete and together decide on a path to solve the issue. A coach should not blow sunshine but they should be positive demanding influences on their students.

 

[raenndrops]

Wow. Very powerful article. I agree with crazy pushy parents. However, for normal non-crazy parents, it's hard to really know what's going on. We are asked to drop off our kids at the gym, and stay the heck away and not watch. It's very different from all the other sports that my other kids have been involved in. I get the feeling that the coaches wants us parents as ignorant of the sports in general, and what's happening in the gym in particular, as much as possible so that we won't mess up with what the coaches are working on with the kids. We are asked to trust them fully, way much more than we have to with other sports. There are no transparency and regular discussions with parents as to how our kid are progressing and what they are struggling with. After not knowing what's happening in the gym during months of practice, we are just expected to show up in the meets to have an idea of what my daughter has learned and how much she's progressed, and how she's progressing compared to others in her team. I've been told by coaches and articles I read to not discuss gymnastics with my daughter unless she initiates it, and I've been abiding by that. I just ask her if she had a good practice whenever I pick her up from the gym. So far, I think she's had good coaches as she still enjoys the sports and she doesn't quiver in fear when she goes to the gym. Most of her coaches doesn't really spend time with the parents. But I've often wondered if I really know what's happening or just be surprised one day when she suddenly breaks down emotionally and physically.

And to add to all of this, this is the only sports that demands year round 15+ hrs/week practice. All the sports that my other kids participated in stress the importance of rest and playing different sports, and not specializing. A lot of kids still end up specializing, and a lot of coaches encourages the really good kids to specialize, but these are all done with some level of discretion. Gymnastics is the only sport that openly demands year round practice as the accepted best practice. The coach tells us that gymnastics is different from other sports, and that not doing year round actually is more harmful and dangerous for the kids. Again, all I can do is trust the coach but I've always wondered if this is really good for their body or not.

My daughter started late (6 yrs old) but was fast tracked earlier on. She fell down to the middle of the pack towards level 5 and 6. She's now 11 yrs old and in level 7, while half of her team skipped level 7 and is now at level 8. I told her that I am not worried about it and neither should she. I prefer that she develops slowly and safely, and the most important thing is she continue to enjoy the sports. I am now thankful that she is not as talented as the other girls to allow her to develop with less pressure. I also remind her every time that she can quit anytime she wants to.

So glad we are at a gym that allows parents to watch if they choose.
We also get 10 WEEKS off a year (spread out). And there are girls who compete for the high school gymnastics team and take the rest of the year off gymnastics and it doesn't harm them. What it does is give them the chance to do other school sports in the fall and spring.
And the girls are encouraged to do other sports if they want ... we only practice 7.5 hours a week, with the possibility of 10 hours some weeks.
Progress should not be compared between gymnasts. Everyone progresses at their own rate. Some girls will get a skill quickly and others will struggle on that skill, but may get another skill quickly. As an example, YG was the first person in her original group to get a front handspring-stepout, but the last to get a front handspring to 2 feet.

 

[KipNurse]

Wow. Quite an article. And I agree with what another poster said that of course, at the elite levels the training is much more aggressive than say a regular 11/12 year old level 6-8.

What I feel like I have noticed, is that while yes, non-elite gyms are different, the CULTURE is worshiped. So while the training/elite style isn't there at some gyms, many coaches kind of want to be the next big thing and almost enjoy being a little on the crazy side. They almost enjoy the crazy parent dying to get their kids to be the next big thing. Does that make sense? Like...the crazy culture is embraced and has seeped into your run of the mill town gymnastics training facility. As I saw another mom say, the theme of "stay away, trust the process" has been noted multiple times where my kiddo has trained. Trust the process of kicking a kid off of the apparatus and the child told they were a disappointment. The pitting each other against each other (did you see what Suzie was doing over there? Are you going to let her pass you by?). The making a kid stay on an apparatus for 2-3 rotations when they were afraid. The screaming at a kid so loud, the whole gym stopped and turned around. The screaming at the kid as they cried.

But then the parents. The ones who feel like it is some badge of honor that their kid is tough enough to put up with this. A badge of honor to talk at parties how their kid is so committed and has no time for anything else. The ones who commiserate with the coaches to come up with a plan for their kid to set goals and make them work harder. It's just weird. We're talking about 8-12 year old girls even at "regular" gyms.

It is a jacked up culture. And like others have said, not like too many other sports. I get a lot of people have had AMAZING experiences and wonderful coaches. And over time, my kid has too. But I just get this sense that the crazy is "embraced". By the parents as well.

And I'm not innocent. I've been wowed by a coach I thought was just using a super cool aggressive coaching style that made kids awesome. Except he's now on the banned list. So...there's that. We all love a good hard-core coaching story. It's what makes some amazing sports movies. Except many of those movies are about grown men playing football or baseball. Sorry....I'm clearly off on a tangent. There is just so much to discuss I think with this sport.

So I'll not use the profanity, but I kind of agree with the title of the article. At least parts of gymnastics are definitely...screwed.

 

[LJL07]

Wow. Quite an article. And I agree with what another poster said that of course, at the elite levels the training is much more aggressive than say a regular 11/12 year old level 6-8.

What I feel like I have noticed, is that while yes, non-elite gyms are different, the CULTURE is worshiped. So while the training/elite style isn't there at some gyms, many coaches kind of want to be the next big thing and almost enjoy being a little on the crazy side. They almost enjoy the crazy parent dying to get their kids to be the next big thing. Does that make sense? Like...the crazy culture is embraced and has seeped into your run of the mill town gymnastics training facility. As I saw another mom say, the theme of "stay away, trust the process" has been noted multiple times where my kiddo has trained. Trust the process of kicking a kid off of the apparatus and the child told they were a disappointment. The pitting each other against each other (did you see what Suzie was doing over there? Are you going to let her pass you by?). The making a kid stay on an apparatus for 2-3 rotations when they were afraid. The screaming at a kid so loud, the whole gym stopped and turned around. The screaming at the kid as they cried.

But then the parents. The ones who feel like it is some badge of honor that their kid is tough enough to put up with this. A badge of honor to talk at parties how their kid is so committed and has no time for anything else. The ones who commiserate with the coaches to come up with a plan for their kid to set goals and make them work harder. It's just weird. We're talking about 8-12 year old girls even at "regular" gyms.

It is a jacked up culture. And like others have said, not like too many other sports. I get a lot of people have had AMAZING experiences and wonderful coaches. And over time, my kid has too. But I just get this sense that the crazy is "embraced". By the parents as well.

And I'm not innocent. I've been wowed by a coach I thought was just using a super cool aggressive coaching style that made kids awesome. Except he's now on the banned list. So...there's that. We all love a good hard-core coaching story. It's what makes some amazing sports movies. Except many of those movies are about grown men playing football or baseball. Sorry....I'm clearly off on a tangent. There is just so much to discuss I think with this sport.

So I'll not use the profanity, but I kind of agree with the title of the article. At least parts of gymnastics are definitely...screwed.

Yes, yes, yes. Quite a few parents remain at a local gym over here so their kids can pull 38s on level 3&4 even though they are very aware of the history of the gym and the physical/emotional abuse that has occurred. Dozens and dozens of kids have left the gym right in front of their eyes, but these parents somehow think their kids are tough enough to tolerate the abuse. And this is for 38s in Compulsories. It is beyond disturbing.

 

[Musicmama]

This is the main thing that worries me about moving (and we're contemplating an international move -- I'm finding almost no information online). Dd is at a good gym with coaches who treat the gymnasts well right now, but as I look into her potentially going somewhere else I worry greatly.

 

[UGA2016]

I have been in a gym where the governing body support the gym/head coach and recommend parents take their children their. The environment is abusive but parents are blindsided as this the gym to be at to reach those Olympic goals and the coaches are put on a pedestal by the national team coaching staff. These parents accept the culture as all the professionals around them are condoning the behaviours, they believe this is just how elite gymnastics is. Parents and gymnasts alike are told they will only achieve at this club and with this coach and those who have left have had their reputations sullied and have found it difficult to be accepted at another elite club, some travelling great distances to keep their child in the sport at that level.

Another issue is that practices are closed to public viewing and gymnasts may not tell their parents about abusive practices through fear of reprisal if the parent intervenes or fear their parent may remove them from this coaching God. The other aspect to this is children brought up in a certain environment may not recognise signs of abuse and with a no viewing policy adults are not there to intervene.

 

[sallysue]

I am not sure what gym or coach you are referring to, but I wonder what exactly USA Gymnastics Safe Sport is doing with the type of cases that they are supposed to handle. (Non sexual misconduct cases, so psychological, emotional, and bullying type abuses). I have wondered what is going on with John Geddert, Han (Everest), Jeff Thompson (former PSU coach, but coaching in Texas)? I think USA Gymnastics wants transparency and accountability, but it is hard to understand how they are handling these cases.

 

[raenndrops]

I am not sure what gym or coach you are referring to, but I wonder what exactly USA Gymnastics Safe Sport is doing with the type of cases that they are supposed to handle. (Non sexual misconduct cases, so psychological, emotional, and bullying type abuses). I have wondered what is going on with John Geddert, Han (Everest), Jeff Thompson (former PSU coach, but coaching in Texas)? I think USA Gymnastics wants transparency and accountability, but it is hard to understand how they are handling these cases.

I know that Geddert is currently suspended from ALL Contact pending his hearing. Not sure about the other 2.

 

[LJL07]

I am not sure what gym or coach you are referring to, but I wonder what exactly USA Gymnastics Safe Sport is doing with the type of cases that they are supposed to handle. (Non sexual misconduct cases, so psychological, emotional, and bullying type abuses). I have wondered what is going on with John Geddert, Han (Everest), Jeff Thompson (former PSU coach, but coaching in Texas)? I think USA Gymnastics wants transparency and accountability, but it is hard to understand how they are handling these cases.

They are in fact not handling them at all. It is ridiculous. It's sort of like the missing documents that they all of a sudden miraculously remembered they had hidden away somewhere.

 

[RTT2]

They are in fact not handling them at all. It is ridiculous. It's sort of like the missing documents that they all of a sudden miraculously remembered they had hidden away somewhere.

Yes, my guess is those complaints typically go straight into the file marked "trash".

 

[LJL07]

Yes, my guess is those complaints typically go straight into the file marked "trash".

That is about right. I do not mind telling anyone who will listen how maddeningly incompetent, lackadaisical, could give a flying flip, etc etc USAG Safe Sport is. They will continue doing absolutely nothing productive at all until USAG declares bankruptcy and USOC decertifies USAG. And then USOC could also care less and will just throw all of the USAG Safe Sport complaints already in the USAG garbage can in their larger USOC garbage can, and nothing will change. I have zero hope for any sort of "cultural change" in this sport.

 

[e'smum]

This is why I encouraged my gymmie to move to Xcel, even though it was held up as a punishment for JO kids who were struggling. She sprained and ankle and then was diagnosed with Osgoods and it hurt. Her health is #1 and she doesn't even want to go to college to do it. She just enjoys doing it. And the switch from 20.5 hours to only 9 has done wonders for her - both physically and mentally. She's happy again, she loves it. She loves her awesome Xcel coach (we are so lucky!). She wants more hours (and I'm hoping to find her a different program where she can get them) and she even pushes herself to where she says her knee is "sore" but a good sore and PT is helping.
There are kids at her gym that have been pushed and they are so damaged - physically and mentally. And for what? A sport. Something they won't be able to do all their lives (and it would behove coaches to realize this). My kid can do it as long as she wants but I'll be darned sure she comes out of it whole....

 

[LJL07]

This is why I encouraged my gymmie to move to Xcel, even though it was held up as a punishment for JO kids who were struggling. She sprained and ankle and then was diagnosed with Osgoods and it hurt. Her health is #1 and she doesn't even want to go to college to do it. She just enjoys doing it. And the switch from 20.5 hours to only 9 has done wonders for her - both physically and mentally. She's happy again, she loves it. She loves her awesome Xcel coach (we are so lucky!). She wants more hours (and I'm hoping to find her a different program where she can get them) and she even pushes herself to where she says her knee is "sore" but a good sore and PT is helping.
There are kids at her gym that have been pushed and they are so damaged - physically and mentally. And for what? A sport. Something they won't be able to do all their lives (and it would behove coaches to realize this). My kid can do it as long as she wants but I'll be darned sure she comes out of it whole....

I hate that xcel is presented as a punishment at some gyms! There are some great xcel gymnasts out there, and it is a great track for so many kids!!

 

[MILgymFAM]

This is why I encouraged my gymmie to move to Xcel, even though it was held up as a punishment for JO kids who were struggling. She sprained and ankle and then was diagnosed with Osgoods and it hurt. Her health is #1 and she doesn't even want to go to college to do it. She just enjoys doing it. And the switch from 20.5 hours to only 9 has done wonders for her - both physically and mentally. She's happy again, she loves it. She loves her awesome Xcel coach (we are so lucky!). She wants more hours (and I'm hoping to find her a different program where she can get them) and she even pushes herself to where she says her knee is "sore" but a good sore and PT is helping.
There are kids at her gym that have been pushed and they are so damaged - physically and mentally. And for what? A sport. Something they won't be able to do all their lives (and it would behove coaches to realize this). My kid can do it as long as she wants but I'll be darned sure she comes out of it whole....

It being presented as punishment or less-than is what held my daughter back from wanting to go back to xcel even though it was what was best for her. Her current gym doesn’t treat it that way, and eventually she was won over. She only trains 3.5 hours a week at boarding school, but now that she’s switched she won’t go back to 16 hours when she comes home. Her coach is allowing her to drop to 12, and honestly it will be the best thing for her. I’m excited for her final season, happy and stress free.

 

[e'smum]

It being presented as punishment or less-than is what held my daughter back from wanting to go back to xcel even though it was what was best for her. Her current gym doesn’t treat it that way, and eventually she was won over. She only trains 3.5 hours a week at boarding school, but now that she’s switched she won’t go back to 16 hours when she comes home. Her coach is allowing her to drop to 12, and honestly it will be the best thing for her. I’m excited for her final season, happy and stress free.

We just came from a 1/2 hour (45 min) private with her Xcel coach and it was really my first experience with her as she's new and I LOVE HER. She had some good insight and was like when we strengthen this, we can fix this..... And she's more relaxed and E really gets her sense of humor. She is a breath of fresh air. And a new pair of eyes on my kid. E really likes Xcel regardless of how it was presented to them on JO. Oh and she's very mindful of the Osgood's knee and making sure E doesn't go too much on it.

 

[kimute]

I just read the article and thought, "should I share this with my 12 year old DD?". I think maybe it is too much. But I do want to maybe share similar. I think she should be aware of all that's going on. She'd been to the ranch and knows all about Naser.
But I also want her to be aware that there is lesser abuse happening that is still abuse. I want her to stick up for friends if she ever sees it and to stick up for herself too.

Has anyone shared these accounts with your gymnasts? Any that are maybe a little less intense? Or would you share this one? She goes to various camps where I never meet the coaches. I trust her coaches but there are others that come and go and we are not encouaged to watch practice. Which I'm kind of over anyway. I want her to be empowered with knowledge that part of this culture is not acceptable.