Women Gyms That Think They Are Better Than They Are?

[3LittleGymmies]

I am sadly starting to realize that this is our gym.

Our gym has never produced any elites/Olympians. A handful of girls have received scholarships to the local Division 1 school. They are typically never in the top three for any level at states. They have rarely had anyone go to nationals. The Level 5 coach is known to be tough. If she doesn't like a routine the day before a meet, you can't compete that event. Many of the girls this year did old 5 and many even repeated old 4. Three girls are essentially being asked to leave the team because they are not good enough. One is switching gyms, one is going to XCel, and one is quitting. My daughter is in new 4 and her scores on one event have been very low this season despite us/her asking for extra help on it. Yet she was allowed to compete it all season (and score very poorly). I actually asked about scratching and was told that wasn't an option unless she couldn't do it safely. (Which seems a little inconsistent to me with how this coach coaches the next level.. kind of seems like we would be throwing her out to the wolves in the next level with this coach and this event!). Anyway, the highest score this level received at state was a very low 36. But most scores were 33's-34's. I just don't think a gym not producing anyone absolutely amazing and not scoring particularly well or placing reserves the right to be THAT selective. Something just seems a little off to me a bit it all...

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

There are lots of good gyms that do not and have never produced an Elite or an Olympian. Geesh. What are you looking for? You constantly complain about your kids' gym. Go find the perfect gym and quit complaining. I guarantee that no matter where you end up there will be things you do not like.

 

[SignHere]

Uh. That was way harsh, GymGirlsMom.

 

[bogwoppit]

Warning given to GymGirls Mom.

Sometimes it is best to avoid posters who bother you. You can even block them so you can never even see their posts.

 

[3LittleGymmies]

My daughter will not be an elite or Olympian, so that is certainly not what we are looking for. My POINT was that it seems that some gyms have a lot of unattainable goals/expectations for their gymnasts when they are not "hardcore elite winning gyms" to start with. If a gym rarely places in the top five and rarely produces even college athletes or even level 10's, my question is if they reserve the right to punish their " average" girls with repeating levels, not competing, getting kicked off the team, etc. Seems harsh and nonsensical for a gym that does not even have a history of success in either winning or producing to think that they are "better than" their gymnasts.

 

[sce]

My daughter will not be an elite or Olympian, so that is certainly not what we are looking for. My POINT was that it seems that some gyms have a lot of unattainable goals/expectations for their gymnasts when they are not "hardcore elite winning gyms" to start with. If a gym rarely places in the top five and rarely produces even college athletes or even level 10's, my question is if they reserve the right to punish their " average" girls with repeating levels, not competing, getting kicked off the team, etc. Seems harsh and nonsensical for a gym that does not even have a history of success in either winning or producing to think that they are "better than" their gymnasts.

I think no gym should punish athletes for not having a certain result. If that if the gym's mentality no matter the gym's credentials there is a problem. A good gym is going to nurture an athlete to achieve their best potential.

 

[txgal]

I agree. The highest level in DDs gym right now is an 8-training-9 (whether she'll compete 9 next season is questionable). We have only one of them. We have 2 level 8s, 5 7s, no 6s, 2 5s, 5 4s, 9 3s, 6 2s, and 6 1s. A decent size for a gym, but not a 'factory.' HC never scratches a girl on an even unless she physically cannot compete the event. She also has only thrown one girl off the team, and that was for a serious attitude issue that just couldn't be fixed. She will make girls repeat a level if she feels it is necessary, but she doesn't 'sandbag' the girls. DD is a 10 yr old L7, training 7/8. She's pushed hard enough to know she's capable of the higher skills, which makes her work harder at her current skills so she can 'score out' of her level and move up. At DD's gym, the 'score out' comes at 36, or 9s on 3 events and a solid 8 on the 4th (anything less will be automatic repeat of the level because the girl is either 1) not competitive at that level yet OR 2) there is one event she is struggling with and just needs a little bit of extra time to get the skills/routine).

I've never ever heard of a coach refusing to allow a girl to compete an event simply because the coach didn't like the routine the day before. God forbid anyone should just have a bad day, and God forbid that day should come right before a meet! With consistently low scores, as a parent, I would question the experience of the coach to teach those skills, the amount of hours given to the gymnasts, or gymnasts being pushed to hard to do skills they're not yet ready for. That sounds like the real issue with the gym...

 

[onebrokegymmum]

I agree with what the poster is saying, and share the frustration - in Australia the NDP system is pretty much purely recreational, as the stream does not lead to international competition, yet I watch so many clubs who are extremely selective with their gymnasts, with high scoring teams repeating levels and most average gymnasts never getting past rec. Surely in a stream that goes nowhere there could be a place for the average gymnasts to experience the thrill of learning and competing higher level skills, even if every skill is not perfect.

 

[wallflower]

I agree. The highest level in DDs gym right now is an 8-training-9 (whether she'll compete 9 next season is questionable). We have only one of them. We have 2 level 8s, 5 7s, no 6s, 2 5s, 5 4s, 9 3s, 6 2s, and 6 1s. A decent size for a gym, but not a 'factory.' HC never scratches a girl on an even unless she physically cannot compete the event. She also has only thrown one girl off the team, and that was for a serious attitude issue that just couldn't be fixed. She will make girls repeat a level if she feels it is necessary, but she doesn't 'sandbag' the girls. DD is a 10 yr old L7, training 7/8. She's pushed hard enough to know she's capable of the higher skills, which makes her work harder at her current skills so she can 'score out' of her level and move up. At DD's gym, the 'score out' comes at 36, or 9s on 3 events and a solid 8 on the 4th (anything less will be automatic repeat of the level because the girl is either 1) not competitive at that level yet OR 2) there is one event she is struggling with and just needs a little bit of extra time to get the skills/routine).

I've never ever heard of a coach refusing to allow a girl to compete an event simply because the coach didn't like the routine the day before. God forbid anyone should just have a bad day, and God forbid that day should come right before a meet! With consistently low scores, as a parent, I would question the experience of the coach to teach those skills, the amount of hours given to the gymnasts, or gymnasts being pushed to hard to do skills they're not yet ready for. That sounds like the real issue with the gym...

I bit off topic, but I thought your DD was just trying to score out of level 5. Amazing that she has already picked up some level 8 skills! I guess she will have no problem being ready for level 7 like you were worried about awhile back. What level 8 skills does she have?

 

[COz]

I think she was listing the levels of girls that train there, not skills that her daughter has

 

[txgal]

Yes and no. She is competing this weekend to score out of 5. The reason she can do so is because she picked up level 7 skills very quickly. My post above was referencing the levels of the girls currently training in DDs gym--DD is still 'officially' a L5 (until she scores out this weekend) but training as a L7. Since she has her L7 skills, she's begun learning L8 skills, but the only ones she has consistently is the full (only on the tramp--coach hasn't yet let her move it to floor), BHS-BHS on beam, and the Yurchenko (sp?) on vault. She is still a looooong way from competing 8, but I am happy that HC is willing to uptrain her on the events/skills she is ready for (she has yet to uptrain anything on bars because she just this past week started working giants; she has a few months to go before being able to connect the giant-flyaway dismount, so L8 bars may not come for her this year).

The point from my previous post is that DD's HC doesn't push the girls to do things just at or beyond their capability, but she doesn't sandbag them either--and she certainly doesn't 'bench them' because they happen to have a bad practice the day before a meet (which it seems is occurring at OP's gym).

 

[Deleted member 14190]

What a team does in the past is exactly that. What a team does right now produces the future. Sounds like they are building a team to me, give or take a few things. Just a thought. And to add, repeating a level isn't a punishment.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I would categorize our gym as moderately successful, some college scholarships, some State wins, some regional and National qualifiers.
Our coaches have a similar philosophy that OPs L5 coach is being blasted for, and I actually see their point. The week before a meet is used to "clear" the events. If the gymnast does not practice the event to the coaches satisfaction, they scratch it that upcoming meet. We are not talking the gymnast must do it perfectly and expect scores in the mid-nines, but ability to compete it to around a perceived score of 8 or above and do so safely and without any spots.
Throughout the season (my gymmies first) we did encounter gyms who clearly did not have this philosophy and I have to admit that I cringed when I saw kids being spotted on kips, spotted on vault, spotted on squat ons.... With scores in the 5's and 6's. No way can that feel good to the kid or build confidence..!

 

[raenndrops]

Throughout the season (my gymmies first) we did encounter gyms who clearly did not have this philosophy and I have to admit that I cringed when I saw kids being spotted on kips, spotted on vault, spotted on squat ons.... With scores in the 5's and 6's. No way can that feel good to the kid or build confidence..!

Actually, it CAN feel good to the kid or build confidence... or both. We have girls on our team that started out low - especially on bars.... but you can SAFELY do a routine even if you don't have all of the skills. Our coach doesn't spot kips. They attempt them... if they don't make it, they do a pullover. She doesn't spot squat ons either... she is there if the gymnast starts to fall wrong, but doesn't spot it in a meet.
At our district Championships, one of our girls got just as excited about her 6.6 on Bars as other people were getting about 9s.
Confidence is about improving on your personal best. How would she know if she was improving at meets if she doesn't compete the event? Her score was a 1/2 point better than her previous best... and it would have been higher if she hadn't forgotten the back hip circle and one of her tap swings on high bar in the excitement of hitting BOTH kips AND her squat on.
You build confidence by celebrating the little things. Would it be great if everyone out there competing had their skills solid and could get high 8s to 9s on every event - of course, but having a gymnast scratch when she can compete safely (especially if it turns out that she would have only needed that 5 or 6 to reach an All Around milestone), isn't necessarily the way to go.

We go against a team that is like yours. They have to show the routine in practice the week before the meet or they scratch. It's not that big a deal since we are only paying $15 per meet (so a scratched event only costs the parent $3.75)... but they have scratched girls on an event early in the meet and the girl has done really well on the other events (one L4 scratched bars... because of a squat on... and was 5.2 away from qualifying for Nationals). I have seen this girl's bars. The meet before, she had "passed the test" and competed them... missed the squat on and still scored an 8+.
If I was a parent that was paying $60 or more for a meet, I would hate for my child to scratch an event IF they could do it safely.

 

[profmom]

Surprisegymmom, that's how it works for DD's gym for the optionals as well. If they can't make routines the week before the meet, they may scratch or more likely have the problem elements taken out, even if they are special requirements. A few L8 girls had their pirouettes pulled for a few meets this year because they just were not making them in practice, and last year two different L7 girls were scratched on bars at meets after not being able to make routines in practice. Different strokes for different folks, but I don't think it's such a bad thing to ask them to make routines under the pressure of not getting to compete to minimize the risk of competing routines where they take multiple falls and feel miserable afterward. The coach will let them compete if they're making the routines, even if he knows the score is not going to be all that good. And I've said this before, but just to repeat: scary optional vaults should be dialed down or the event should be scratched until the problem is fixed.

The only time I've seen compulsories scratched at DD's gym is when they are balking on the BWO on beam.