Women Held placement meetings tonight

[BarCoach]

Met with all parents tonight (individually), to discuss where we feel they should be this summer/next year. Most parents took it well. Some did not. One in particular seemed to understand what we were saying about her youngest daughter moving to Prep Op because of missing skills and serious lack of strength. But then when practice was over she came back and wanted to talk more. She then proceeded to tell me it was my fault her daughter is as far behind as she is (not enough upgrading during the year) and that she will be devastated to have to move to Prep Op. And that she was blindsided by us telling her this news. All night I've felt terrible after our second conversation. Like maybe we were wrong to suggest what we did. So we've agreed to let her continue to workout with the group through the summer and then we'll discuss again. Just wanted to share. Looking for support/similar experiences I guess.

 

[ecott]

You know best for your students, and it sounds like you thought through what needed to be done beforehand. Even if we'd like to make perfect decisions, we can only do our best. Our DD's coaches listen like you do, but I don't think they sweat it as much as your are; they reward the accomplishments (learned skills) but also look favorably on determination. The only times I've seen the coach change her mind is when the gymnast articulates how much it means and how hard she will work - serious effort on the girl's part goes a long way. That being said, some do well after the promises and others don't.

 

[Missbeingagymmom]

I remember when my daughter was asked to move from Level 4 to the rec program because the coaches felt that is where she belonged when she was in 3rd grade...I fought for her to compete level 5 ... They agreed to let her try it ... She had a very tough year, and worked very hard. She went on to compete every year until she graduated high school. She finished her JO career as a level 8. She watched all of her friends surpass her in skills but she remained steadfast, worked hard, loved the sport and was a great teammate. I guess my suggestion is to let the gymnast try because they will either see it for themselves that it is above them or they will achieve their goals.

 

[wallinbl]

As a parent, I don't know much about gymnastics, potential, or anything inside the gym. I know what my daughter wants, but the coach probably knows that as well. The coach knows what my daughter can do, what my daughter does do, how hard she works, whether she's flexible enough, whether she does her conditioning or cheats it, and has an idea of what her potential is. I'm not saying I don't exert influence I shouldn't sometimes, but most of my input to the direction of her gymnastics is emotional, not practical or rational. I'm not saying the coaches aren't emotional, but more of their input to the direction of her gymnastics is practical or rational than is mine.

If you're going to compromise with the parent, provide some practical feedback that the parent can work on in a constructive and safe way. Things like encouraging the girl to stick it out and finish every rep of conditioning, even if it means being late in rotating over to tumbling (if this kind of behavior makes sense in your gym; it does in DD's). Aside from gymnastics, it'll be good for the girl to make a habit out of following through and finishing tasks.

 

[Muddlethru]

Often times we parents don"t understand the skill progressions, requirements etc. to move up. More importantly, we'd like to think our kids are talented, and it may not be accurate and can be a biased assessment. In addition, and most importantly, we do not like to see our children hurt or feel inferior to anyone, be left behind/left out by their friends. All I truly ask from my daughter's coaches and hope that they do really take the time to think seriously what is best for her because this is a sport she spends a tremendous amount of her liesure time, something her heart is fully vested in doing her best, etc. My experience is (not just personally, but what I've observed on other situations), some gymnasts fall through the cracks, some coaches are burned out and just take the easiest route, some coaches put a lot less effort on the less talented kids, and some just don't even have the experience to make a qualified decision. I also wished coaches took the time to explain situations to parents. If you sincerely feel this was the best situation for the gymnast, and feel you've done your part in coaching her, then you should not feel bad and just explain why you feel the gymnast should go to pre OP. But just to play devils advocate, because I have not the slightest clue of the gymnast's skills or your abilities as a coach, do you feel bad because the parent may be right that the daughter may have received less than adequate upgrading during the year to get her up to speed? Even the best the best coaches can be remiss sometimes.

 

[BarCoach]

Yes I do feel like we didn't do as much upgrading as we should have, but I'm not sure it's my fault. After a year and a half working her shoot through, this gymnast finally got it. But it was so inconsistent that we spent the majority of the year working level 4 routines. I feel like the push for her to stay is mostly coming from the mom, that it would be she that would be devastated to move to Prep Op, not her daughter. The decision was well thought out and based not only on the fact that she is missing skills but also that she lacks the strength to get them. But we've agreed to let her stay through the summer so we'll reassess in August.

 

[vagymmomma]

I hate the time of year for move-ups. Love the uptraining, but I don't look forward to the inevitable disappointment some girls/parents feel when they are left behind. I've seen mistakes made both ways -- coaches not moving up gymnasts they should and parents pushing for gymnasts to move up that shouldn't. The results are mixed because we're all human. Going forward -- try to keep the lines of communication open, so there are less surprises. Make sure the "must-haves" are clearly communicated and note the intangibles as well (are they listening and taking corrections? do they work had at conditioning? et al). The more communication -- usually less surprises on both sides. I'm not sure about your level of experience, but generally speaking you should be best served to make the call. Parents have the option of going somewhere else if they're not happy. We made that choice last year and in hindsight it was absolutely the right move for my gymmie. The only thing I never have understood is why move-ups must occur at the beginning of the summer. Some gyms (especially at the compulsory level) don't seem to focus much on uptraining, so to expect a kip in 6 weeks is next to impossible. I understand the need for training groups, but some girls need a little extra time. Good luck - trust yourself as a coach. Sometimes you'll be wrong, but I expect coaches keep learning as well as gymnasts.

 

[bookworm]

Yes I do feel like we didn't do as much upgrading as we should have, but I'm not sure it's my fault. After a year and a half working her shoot through, this gymnast finally got it. But it was so inconsistent that we spent the majority of the year working level 4 routines. I feel like the push for her to stay is mostly coming from the mom, that it would be she that would be devastated to move to Prep Op, not her daughter. The decision was well thought out and based not only on the fact that she is missing skills but also that she lacks the strength to get them. But we've agreed to let her stay through the summer so we'll reassess in August.

Ok Barcoach, don't go beating yourself up here....the gymnast in question still doesn't really have her level 4 skills after almost 2 years in that level, and she's lacking in the strength to achieve at that level (the beginning one) so I can see why you would have suggested she move to the Prep Op (Excell) program ...from what I understand about that program there is more focus on what the gymnast CAN do and maximizing that (versus having them compete compulsory routines with skills they lack) and she can have her own "routine and music" for floor. I think it was a perfectly reasonable suggestion given the skill set as presented. We had a similar mother/daughter combo in our gym in the past and it was the mother who was pushing for her daughter to stay in the sport as the daughter kept wanting to quit!

And just because she does PrepOp doesn't mean that she couldn't return to JO if she acquired the necessary skills down the road. I think your suggestion presented a less frustrating option for the gymnast, even though the mother sees it as a demoralizing one. In the end, you may need to set objective goals to be met for girls to move up on your team (i.e no shoot through at level 4 = no moving up) or even BE on your JO team ...(i.e. no shoot through or progressive skills like the kip X 2-3 yrs = move to Prep Op program) ...I know it sounds harsh but you could avoid situations like this down the road...

 

[iwannacoach]

I had similar experiences the first two years I had to make decisions about who to invite to team or move up within the team. I made the mistake of believing, after the first year, that I could get it right the second year. Maybe I just needed to word things differently or take a bit more time watching each kid to more accurately assess their abilities and reconcile their weaknesses with how they were using their time and the coaching they were getting. I really did a thorough job, and felt pretty sure my choices reflected what was best for the child in the context that being in the right group would do the most for them without setting them up to feel bad about their abilities within the group.

The second year's meetings??? The parents, of the kids who weren't moving in the direction they'd hoped for, held their ground in the same manner as the past year by telling me their child wanted or needed this move up, did nothing but live for the gym, and was like a caged animal straining to bust out of the house and get to the gym..... no matter the hour! Over all these the meetings with the parents forced to advocate for their child went worse than the previous year because I was more certain of my choices, and I ended up allowing some kids to move into slots they shouldn't be in.

From that set of meetings forward, on every occasion I spoke with parents individually or as a group, I let them know exactly how their child was doing, what their weaknesses were, and that I was, or not, seeing the necessary effort from them to make the next move upward. I also took on a different attitude about progress in the sense that it was expected and normal to the extent that the "way to go moments" were celebrated only when kids worked hard, and never on new skills. It was a little less fun doing it that way, but it ended up acknowledging that we were there as a team to work for something rather than to have something handed to us.

The next year's meetings went much better.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

maybe I am doing something wrong but I usually wait until early august to make this decision for compulsories and December for optionals, (that is the beginning of each season). By that time both the kid and parent know and can see that they are not ready, (mostly). That being said, some kids are "no brainers", like the one mentioned in the op post, but I still wait. I just feel like if I give that decision too early that parents first reaction is, "your already giving up on my child".. etc...

 

[iwannacoach]

maybe I am doing something wrong but I usually wait until early august to make this decision for compulsories and December for optionals, (that is the beginning of each season). By that time both the kid and parent know and can see that they are not ready, (mostly). That being said, some kids are "no brainers", like the one mentioned in the op post, but I still wait. I just feel like if I give that decision too early that parents first reaction is, "your already giving up on my child".. etc...

I like your sense of timing with respect to decisions within the compulsory program and the optional program, but have always made decisions about team invites and moves from the compulsory program to the optional soon after the compulsory season has ended. Those that are asked to move up are then able to form a training group and start learning and working together with a common interest separate from the compulsory group.

 

[herrmannt]

I also wait until it is time to start learning routines to announce what level each girl will compete. I pretty much know now what each girl will do but I see several benefits on waiting to make the announcements.
1. The girls continue to strive for the next level. They do not give up because they know there is a chance they could move up.
2. Parents do not perceive that we have given up on the gymnast because months in advance we are telling them their child is not moving up. We never give up on a kid and I don't think a coach ever should!!!
3. The gymnast and parents are not surprised. They usually know before I say anything because they know my expectations and they know what they can do. There is never any "but she will get her kip. She has months to work on it"
4. By setting my expectations and making them known I generally do not have any issues with parents (there is always an exception every now and then) trying to get me to change my mind. I hope this is because I have their trust and confidence that I do what I think is best for each individual gymnast. I do not take into account how hard it will be for the coaches or numbers.

 

[BarCoach]

Just want to say thank you for all the replies. I've learned a lot through this process. But I'm done dealing with it for now. Like I said before, we'll reassess in August and hopefully the parents will have a better understanding of whatever my suggestion is.