MAG Help me explain why gym takes so much time training, please! (long)

[rosiekat]

So my son is currently L4 and trains just 4 hours a week (once he's back at the gym!). I've already been told by the coach that he will move up to L5 for fall, and they train 6 hours (2 hours x 3 days). As you all know already, that's a pretty low amount compared to other places, and it all fits in with the HC's philosophy of using the time well, but leave them wanting more so they don't burn out so easily. DS would live in the gym if he could, although he is still young (7).

My husband comes from the more general sports background many of us are more familiar with - where dabbling is OK, you can participate in a sport one season and then not the next season, and the season is only 4 months long, etc. More specifically, mostly baseball. Now, I do want to be clear that he gets the DS loves gym and he is totally good with that. However, what he isn't understanding is why gym requires so many hours so early on. I think he's OK with the 4 hours now, but is getting nervous already at 6 next year. I haven't even explained to him how exponentially quickly it goes up after that, but we're friends with a family that has a 14-y.o. L9 JE (going to Nationals, so both good and dedicated), and husband freaks that this kid is at the gym 20 hours in 8th grade. I also think it unnerved DH to see that this is a year-round sport. There were practices over Christmas break and spring break, although for L4 it was just 2(?) over Christmas and 1 over spring break, so still allowed a good break for everyone.

I've tried to explain how the skills development process is very different - you can take a baseball newbie out and show them the rudiments of the sport in one week, and from then on, it's *basically* just continuing to develop those skills. (No, I'm not trying to insult baseball, as it is probably my favorite sport in general!) But you're lucky if in a week you can get a kid to do a cartwheel-ish type movement, and then there are several apparatus that all have different techniques, and each level's techniques build upon each other.

He just doesn't understand why DS can't stay at 4 hours a week at least for several years, and sees him as having to specialize too early. DS did rec soccer this year with school friends, but even so had to miss the practices pretty often. DS is an athletic kid, though, so he was still an asset to the team. Now DH has DS thinking he's going to play soccer in the fall next year and baseball in the spring (Oh, and we have another child with all her activities, too, mind you...). When I try to explain that on top of more gymnastics and homework (that rumor has it increases a ton for next year), there may not be time for soccer and baseball, DH thinks I'm pushing DS too hard at the gym. And DS is too young to understand the time constraints, so he just wants to do it all (well, he'd skip the homework if he could!). Baseball here, even rec, at his age next year, generally does 2-3 practices a week and 2 games a week. And DS has dabbled in it at a younger age, as well as flag football and some more time in soccer. He liked them all, but didn't have the passion he has for gym. Let me put it this way - one drizzly day when he had soccer practice and we knew everything was going to be slippery, he chose to skip the practice because he didn't want to take the chance of falling when he had a meet in a couple of weeks. That's HIS priority, not mine! I'm all for letting a kid explore to find his passion, but I think in this case, it's been found.

Anyway, I don't expect anyone to be able to solve the debate, lol, but if you can help me find ways to explain why gym takes the time it takes, that will help me explain to DH.

 

[momto2js]

My son played baseball and soccer until he was a 7 year old level 5. Then he chose not to. Up until last summer he swam on the summer swim team. He is a 9 year old level 6, and he is realistic, that he really can't do more than gym. Being a level 6 is the singular most important thing to him at the moment.

He trains 9 to 12 hours a week. His friends that play baseball play both in the spring and the fall, and they practice 6 hours a week and travel to 2 tournaments a month. They do not have professional coaches who care about their long term health or goals. Oh and the last time I compared note with the baseball parents, gymnastics wasn't to much more expensive.

 

[gymmomx2]

Gymnastics for boys is like learning 6 different sports at the same time So if a soccer player needs 4 hours a week to develop, a gymnast would need 24 LOL. That's my explanation anyway

also unlike baseball where hitting/throwing/catching are the basic skills (which you do get better at over the years), gymnastic skills are different as you get better and there is no end in sight. There is always a new/harder skill to learn, no matter your level!

 

[profmom]

In gym, you fail and fail and fail at the skill until you succeed, and then your reward is starting with a new skill at which you will fail a million times. It's really different from other sports in that regard, especially at the beginning of the road, when everything they are learning is foundational to and preparatory for to skills that they can't yet even attempt (well, I guess except for roundoffs and handstands).

Our program director's philosophy is to encourage the boys to experiment with other sports early. He has no beef with the kids who miss a gym day here and there, even pretty frequently, to do spring baseball and fall soccer. As they move on, they will be the ones telling dad not to sign them up for baseball this season because they don't want to miss that day of practice in the gym. If your guy is truly a gymnast, the passion will grow with his growth in the sport, and he'll invest on his own.

See where he is in the fall. Let him do baseball and soccer if he wants to, but if he ends up digging in on gym, reassure your husband that there's no better all-around athletic training available. So many gymnasts who leave the sport walk immediately into another sport and have great success -- track and field, diving, football, soccer, lacrosse, the list goes on. The strength, flexibility, and body awareness is unparalleled, as is the capacity to work hard in the face of failure to acquire new athletic (or other) skills.

 

[GymDad9.9]

In baseball, a .300 batting average is pretty good. Dont' think getting a gymnastics skill right 3 out of 10 times in a competition is pretty decent. It's work and practice and refinement and more work then more practice with some more refinement et al ad nauseum....

PS, I come from a general sports background too and I have developed a very healthy respect for the amount of work, training and conditioning that is required in gymnastics.

 

[samsmama]

I have had some of these same discussions with my son's dad. Not so much the part about doing other sports -- DS has never been interested in any "ball" sport -- but definitely the hours. And the fact that there's no break -- people are always surprised to hear that not only does DS have no off-season downtime, it's actually more intense!

The way I think about it is that gymnastics is more like school than it is like other sports. The learning is cumulative over time, so for example, in school, you first master addition and subtraction, then you move on to multiplication, then division, then pre-algebra, then algebra, etc. Each new course builds on the previous learning. Other sports are more akin to getting really, really good at multiplication.

I would say to keep your son in other activities as long as he wants to and can manage it with his practice schedule. Even though DS is not into more traditional sports, I do encourage him to pursue other interests. Even with 16 hours/week of gym, he fits in a fencing class once a week and will do rock climbing and fencing camps on teacher planning days and when he has a week off in the summer or holiday season. He plays chess and does several tournaments a year.

 

[profmom]

We signed our guy up to add chorus to his music pursuits next year. This year he played trumpet in the school band and in a jazz ensemble. It does make things hectic and harder to balance, but we think it's good for him to have some identity beyond gym and school. Our daughter (in her first year of high school and a L8) has played violin all the way through and is developing into a pretty serious artist. Even with the crazy hours, and even with kids in public schools, it doesn't have to be all gym all the time.

 

[gracyomalley]

I'd second all those who are pointing out that the training for gym is so much different from other sports...and the importance of building upon fundamental skills and strength in order to be safe and healthy (relatively) at higher levels.

I'd also so that its super important to not limit them to gym early on. Even though gym is an excellent overall training for really any sport later on, it is still important for kids to dabble a bit - esp. since if your kid waits until 10 or 11 to try baseball or soccer, unfortunately they will never be able to excel in the present sports climate - probably even harder than gym! And I would also add that by that age those sports often involve travel, year round, etc...its all very crazy...at least in gym that level of training actually has a physiologic basis...

In gymnastics the level of fitness required is so high that there really does need to be more practice later, but not at 7 years old and training L5. However, 6 hours a week should be easy to fit in with other interests, and most coaches would encourage a 7 year old missing some practice for another activity. My younger boy was an 8 year old L5, doing 9 hours of practice but played rec baseball in the summer and just missed gym those days. No questions asked. My older boy (now training L9) didn't start team gymnastics until he was almost 11, and did baseball, soccer and swimming before that (none of which he loved, by the way...) Sure he's out of age for Nationals until Level 10 now, but he's quickly moved through the levels and had success with state titles in various events along the way - so being an "older gymnast" hasn't kept him from loving the sport and excelling to his ability. He has had to balance music, high school and gym this year and it has clearly impacted his gymnastics - but at 15 making those choices is part of growing up...I'm glad he has more than one thing he cares about excelling in and more than one group of friends, adults to look up to, etc....

My DD loved gym and couldn't get enough at the compulsory and early optional levels, until she hit about age 11 when fear, puberty and social stuff got in the way. Even in her case (doing 20 hours a week from age 9) we (her coach and family) made sure she took the time to pursue dance (until she was about to go on pointe and train L8 so had to choose), art classes, violin and youth orchestra, and a menagerie of pets. When gym was no longer the pleasure it had been for her the change was painful and the transition slow, but she didn't leave with nothing else in her life...and never only identified herself as a "gymnast".

Truthfully, far more talented kids who love gymnastics at 7 end up like my DD than continue in the sport through high school, and although its hard to imagine when they are living and breathing it, learning fast, etc, its important to allow them/insist that they have other things...until the time when there is NO time for other things, which is certainly not at Level 5 - still very fundamental men's gymnastics.

Boys are different, but they still need to be well rounded. My guess is that you and your husband are "both right" but I also think that with time this will work out for you. Good luck!

 

[gymgal]

The way I think about it is that gymnastics is more like school than it is like other sports. The learning is cumulative over time, so for example, in school, you first master addition and subtraction, then you move on to multiplication, then division, then pre-algebra, then algebra, etc. Each new course builds on the previous learning. Other sports are more akin to getting really, really good at multiplication.

This is such a great analogy!

OP - I have a dd, not a ds, but it is the same with dh. He has a soccer, baseball, tennis background and just couldn't understand why gym had to be year round and so intense. dd played baseball for a couple years to appease dh but as soon as her hours went to 9 hours, she made the decision to just have gym. I think you need to talk with ds about it and have him prioritize. Explain that he has only a certain amount of 'sports' hours and he needs to decide what he wants to do. You may find that he would prefer to do 2 other sports instead of just gymnastics. Or he may be so into gym that he chooses that over the others. It is OK if he chooses to move down in gym in order to play the other sports as well. I think once we are on the gymnastics path, we as parents feel they have to keep moving forward or they will never "get there" wherever that might be. but it is important for him to lead the way. and if he still has interest in other sports then he should be given the opportunity to play them while going down on the gym hours. Does it hurt his chances for reaching the top levels, college team, etc? yes. but that shouldn't be the goal right now. Experiencing all the sports he is interested in should be.

 

[ForceForever]

In baseball, a .300 batting average is pretty good. Dont' think getting a gymnastics skill right 3 out of 10 times in a competition is pretty decent. It's work and practice and refinement and more work then more practice with some more refinement et al ad nauseum..

Explain that if 3/10 is a good average and 9/10 is a good average for gymnastics your son should practice 3 times as much
Factor in doing 6 events and your up to 18 times as much (this argument could save u some time until he gets to 20+ hours a week)
So if your son practices baseball and soccer each for one hour a week you can say your kid can practice 18 hours a week of gymnastics

 

[rosiekat]

Thanks for all the thought you've all put into this!

DH and I chatted a lot last night, and I think he's now gotten to where he does understand the "why." I think his big fear is that by doing gym, DS will miss out on finding something he likes even better. My point is that while most people take time to find their passions, sometimes they find it early. If we remotely suggested quitting gym in order to do, say, baseball, DS would freak. DH worries that there won't be time for DS to do other things - which is a legitimate worry - but I also explained that "other things" doesn't have to mean other sports, just because the kid is athletically gifted. To be completely honest, this kid is one of those pretty lucky ones, who can do just about anything he puts his mind to. He took up piano a full year after DD had started, and in 6 weeks he was better than she was. However, he didn't love it and so he decided to quit after about 6 months. And I guess that's part of my point to DH, that just because DS (or anyone) is really good and even gifted at something doesn't mean they necessarily need to pursue it if they don't really enjoy it.

This summer, he's doing all kinds of camps - none of which are gymnastics related! (And he had that option - his gym does a pretty inexpensive camp that's gym time plus other fun stuff, and he does love it when he's been before.) He's exploring some different things he's expressed interest in, like acting, Battlebots, a sports sampler camp, and a musical "Rock Camp." I think that helped DH feel better, too. Perhaps a piece of it was him worrying that I'm pushing gym and not letting DS try stuff. Because really, when I sit back and think about it, I'm the one who sees practice, and sees how his mood becomes better the second he walks in the gym, I see how excited he is to get in the car and yell that "It's gym day!" and all of that - DH has been to maybe one practice all year (and all the meets - I'm not trying to indicate he isn't involved, life just dictates that I'm the chauffeur!). So I certainly see the more passionate side of DS with this, whereas DH gets more of the "I'm tired practice was fine" part.

And just a PS - I really, really don't want to imply that DH doesn't support DS or doesn't support the choice of gymnastics. His concerns are 99% out of love for DS (and 1% love of baseball, lol!).

 

[rocky]

I know I'm a bit late to this thread, but I just thought I would add that if you want to pursue other sports to a high level then a lot of training is required. If you read about top tennis players you will see that they often train 4-5 hours a day hitting thousands of balls every day. Top basketball players who make it to the NBA practiced for many hours every day. Top swimmers often start at 6am everyday and do ridiculous numbers of laps. I have also heard that in archery they can train up to 8 hours a day. I don't know anything about baseball, so I can't comment on that. It may be possible to find some sport somewhere were they don't practice as much, but for the majority of sports to make it to the elite levels or professional leagues then it take many many hours of training. The reality is that if you get beyond about level 8 then it really is quite a high level. People who are doing other sports just once a week are unlikely to be doing it at a high level. It is entirely possible to do gymnastics just once a week and just do things like handstands and cartwheels. It's just that higher level skills require more training. Gymnastics seems to have a higher proportion of kids doing higher levels compared to the number just doing rec, but it is not the only sport that requires a lot of hours.