Parents How common is this?

[Amber]

I am totally against repeating levels if kids score over 35.00 AA at meets. Only if they do not have the skills to move to the next level. Example, kip for level 5 (and I mean not even close..we've had girls go from no kip to great kip in 3 months). And I would rather my DD repeat level 5 than 4...it has more transferrable skills. Who cares if you have a perfect mill circle? I would rather DD have a perfect kip even if she spent a year in the bottom half at meets the first year. It's important to note the score out AA according to USAG...like 32.00 AA. Not 39.00 AA. There is a reason behind these rules. Just my opinion.

 

[sglemon]

I am totally against repeating levels if kids score over 35.00 AA at meets. Only if they do not have the skills to move to the next level. Example, kip for level 5 (and I mean not even close..we've had girls go from no kip to great kip in 3 months). And I would rather my DD repeat level 5 than 4...it has more transferrable skills. Who cares if you have a perfect mill circle? I would rather DD have a perfect kip even if she spent a year in the bottom half at meets the first year. It's important to note the score out AA according to USAG...like 32.00 AA. Not 39.00 AA. There is a reason behind these rules. Just my opinion.

From my experience girls repeating level 4 are not perfecting their mill circle, they are spending an additional year learning their level 5 skills, along with learning the finer skills of competing like form and dance. When they start competing level 5 (season starts this month) they have had their skills perfected. My DD has had a kip for over a year now, how do you think she is going to compare to a gymnast rushing to learn one? So instead of my DD spending time learning the level 5 skills, this year, she is learning to perfect the form (along with learning the level 6 skills) because when she goes to level 6, it is all about the form. It is the "train up compete down philosophy"

 

[Quadqueen]

From my experience girls repeating level 4 are not perfecting their mill circle, they are spending an additional year learning their level 5 skills, along with learning the finer skills of competing like form and dance. When they start competing level 5 (season starts this month) they have had their skills perfected. My DD has had a kip for over a year now, how do you think she is going to compare to a gymnast rushing to learn one? So instead of my DD spending time learning the level 5 skills, this year, she is learning to perfect the form (along with learning the level 6 skills) because when she goes to level 6, it is all about the form. It is the "train up compete down philosophy"

Another name for this is really, "holding kids back to win a state title." Why "compete down" when you have the skills for the next level? It doesn't sit right with me, although I know you believe in it because that's what your gym does. I personally don't think it's right for a gym to mandate two years at level 4 so the girls can get 38s.

 

[skschlag]

Another name for this is really, "holding kids back to win a state title." Why "compete down" when you have the skills for the next level? It doesn't sit right with me, although I know you believe in it because that's what your gym does. I personally don't think it's right for a gym to mandate two years at level 4 so the girls can get 38s.

I think that can be oversimplifying. I know, for my son, (who did 3 years of level 5) many people thought he was being "held back to win" HE had all of the skills for level 6, just as now, he has almost all of them for level7. However, in the opinion of his coach, it is better to get a good foundation in the basics in order to do the bigger skills. Just because someone CAN do them doesn't mean they should. And many of the skills (not all) are key to moving on to bigger skills. If a child doesn't have the basics, then the big skills are going to be even harder, and not done with good form.

We caught a lot of grief for my son doing 3 years of 5. But it was the best decision for HIM. He and a teammate both did 3 years. They now have a great base for gymnastics, and the bigger skills are coming quicker because they do have good form, strength and basics. I think that is very important for gymnastics.

 

[Amber]

Like I said, I am not against repeating, just above level 4. I cringe when I look at the level 4 routine..dance elements, yeah right Not even starting in on the hideous arcade music.....

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Another name for this is really, "holding kids back to win a state title." Why "compete down" when you have the skills for the next level? It doesn't sit right with me, although I know you believe in it because that's what your gym does. I personally don't think it's right for a gym to mandate two years at level 4 so the girls can get 38s.

I agree with the idea of perfecting the next level skills before you compete that level, but I think gyms should hold the girls in a development/pre team program for that extra year if that is truly their focus and philosophy, not mandate two years at level four.

 

[new2gym]

Another name for this is really, "holding kids back to win a state title." Why "compete down" when you have the skills for the next level? It doesn't sit right with me, although I know you believe in it because that's what your gym does. I personally don't think it's right for a gym to mandate two years at level 4 so the girls can get 38s.

I suspect you're right Kate. This is what's disturbing. And it's not that I'm opposed to good form or solid basics, but my point is that I think girls who score in the mid to high 37's at State and place 2nd or 3rd should at least be given a CHANCE to move up.

 

[iwannacoach]

I'm kinda curious about the number of kids per coach....does it fall with-in the norm....do you even know what the "normal" coach/gymnast ratio is at level 4.....does anybody know the "typical numbers"?

 

[bogwoppit]

When we have had that discussion in the past the average training group size seemed to be 1 coach to 8 gymnasts. Groups as large as 12 were talked about though.

 

[sglemon]

Another name for this is really, "holding kids back to win a state title." Why "compete down" when you have the skills for the next level? It doesn't sit right with me, although I know you believe in it because that's what your gym does. I personally don't think it's right for a gym to mandate two years at level 4 so the girls can get 38s.

I don't think we ever won a state title, we are competative, maybe top 5 in all of our levels at one time or another, but not every year. So, NO, it isn't all about winning states, despite what you think. Actually our highest place I think was in Level 5, when they won 2nd a few years ago. You can't compete in our state with 35s. My older DD got 35s at state, and she was always in the bottom 5 in the AA (groups around 30) There is a HUGE difference in a gymnast scoring 35s and one scoring 37s.

 

[Bajanswife]

I don't think we ever won a state title, we are competative, maybe top 5 in all of our levels at one time or another, but not every year. So, NO, it isn't all about winning states, despite what you think. Actually our highest place I think was in Level 5, when they won 2nd a few years ago. You can't compete in our state with 35s. My older DD got 35s at state, and she was always in the bottom 5 in the AA (groups around 30) There is a HUGE difference in a gymnast scoring 35s and one scoring 37s.

And there's the problem. Once enough gyms are perfecting their gymnasts to get 37s and 38s, the rest feel they have to follow suit or it starts to get demotivating in competitions. Our gym seldom shines because we don't have a "perfectionist" mentality, but we compete against gyms that do (and it does get frustrating). We are a small gym without a pit of any kind, and most of our gymnasts quit in level 7. We have no college scholarships to work for, and forget the Olympics. Our goals are therefore not that long-term - our girls (and coaches) want to enjoy what they are doing, and let's face it, levels 1 - 4 just aren't that exciting!

 

[sglemon]

And there's the problem. Once enough gyms are perfecting their gymnasts to get 37s and 38s, the rest feel they have to follow suit or it starts to get demotivating in competitions. Our gym seldom shines because we don't have a "perfectionist" mentality, but we compete against gyms that do (and it does get frustrating). We are a small gym without a pit of any kind, and most of our gymnasts quit in level 7. We have no college scholarships to work for, and forget the Olympics. Our goals are therefore not that long-term - our girls (and coaches) want to enjoy what they are doing, and let's face it, levels 1 - 4 just aren't that exciting!

You can also argue that it is the way to go, based on your experience, because we have a good amount of girls at level 7, 8, 9 and 10, and our level 10s do get scholarships. If girls do quit, it is between level 6 and 7, because the hours of training jumps between those 2 levels, and they are discovering teenage social life and school sports. Which I am sure is probably similar to most gyms. We are not an elite gym and the closest is 5 hours away, so we do maintain level 10s. We also have girls traveling over an hour to work with our optional teams, they pass several smaller gyms on the way.

I do understand there is no right or wrong way, gyms make the decision based what is best for their gym. For our gym it works!!

 

[marie83]

In my region of the uk, once you have achieved a certain score at each level you cannot repeat it. I have a love/hate relationship with this. I love it because gyms can't 'cheat' and have gymnasts repeat just so they win. I hate it because it isn't all that difficult to achieve the move up score whilst not being ready for the next level. We now have the attitude that a gymnast does not get entered into a competition unless they are almost ready to compete the next level. Our l5 gymnasts must be ready for l4 in order for us to enter them at l5! I think we've had to do that because it is what other gyms are doing and it is upsetting for our gymnasts to come last or in the bottom half.
I also gave the attitude that gymnasts shouldn't be struggling to compete their skills.
I like the fact that we have different competitions for elite gymnasts too, right from the beginning.

 

[Moxiegrl83]

I don't have an opinion on whether she should compete L4 again, but what stuck out to me is it seems the whole group is doing the same thing. This group is moving up, this group is competing again. Each gymnast should be evaluated to see where they belong. It obviously makes sense to have groups train together with similar skill sets, but 9 months is a long time to reliably predict where there skills will be. Coach's seem to have a pretty good idea of what progressions the child will make, but I know just from my limited experience, it seems like nothing new will happen for months, and then out of nowhere they have a skill explosion. Especially for younger gymnasts, there is a big difference between a 5 yr old and 6 yr old. Who knows where they will be in 6-9 months.

I have no idea what my DD's doing next season, and her coach will let me know when she knows....it will depend on her and how she progresses.

 

[bogwoppit]

We also have different levels for different types of gymnasts. We have regional, provincial and national streams. Girls can move from one to the other easily, no restrictions on mobility at all, and at the regional levels the training hours are restricted to nine hours or less. This does, on the whole, make the playing fields a little more even. Girls can repeat a level, but as medals and placements are not such a huge deal here, gyms tend not to sandbag. Any child with obvious talent is streamed away from regional and Provincial.

 

[cbifoja]

I don't have an opinion on whether she should compete L4 again, but what stuck out to me is it seems the whole group is doing the same thing. This group is moving up, this group is competing again. Each gymnast should be evaluated to see where they belong. It obviously makes sense to have groups train together with similar skill sets, but 9 months is a long time to reliably predict where there skills will be. Coach's seem to have a pretty good idea of what progressions the child will make, but I know just from my limited experience, it seems like nothing new will happen for months, and then out of nowhere they have a skill explosion. Especially for younger gymnasts, there is a big difference between a 5 yr old and 6 yr old. Who knows where they will be in 6-9 months.

I have no idea what my DD's doing next season, and her coach will let me know when she knows....it will depend on her and how she progresses.

Excellent statement! It does seem odd that every single one of a group would need to repeat. My daughter learns in spurts and I don't think that is all that unusual. The girls train so hard over the summer and you can see big progress in many of the girls. I would hate to think that levels were determined so far ahead of when competition begins for our gym. They start competing in November but they don't know their level until August. Only then do they start training routines.

 

[bogwoppit]

I also find it odd that girls aren't being allowed to progress at their own speed. We all know some kids need more time, whilst others fly ahead. Holding a whole group at the same level for another year is a head scratcher. Even in our tiny gym this never happened.

 

[raenndrops]

We have a gym like that near me. They have all these banners about being State Champions at Levels 3-6 and higher, but they hold girls back. Usually, they are Lvl 3 for a season, then Lvl 3/4, then Lvl 4, then Lvl 4/5, then Lvl 5, 5/6, and 6. My state has 2 seasons a year for compulsories, so if they start in the fall season, they can still move up a level the next fall, but if they are getting 37+ in the fall, they should NOT be repeating the level just for the scores. The USAG frowns on this, but they are hesitant to put MANDATE scores in place because they do not want to force more hours and financial commitment on a gymnast and family.