Coaches How to approach another coach of differing opinions?

[niklum]

I recently took at new job as a Rec Director at a new gym even though I've been a team coach for many years. My daughter came with me as a new Level 7 and I've always been one of her coaching team. When we came to this new gym, she was ready to compete Level 7 right away, with completed routines and skills. In the past month, she's lost most of her newly attained skills, forgotten her routines, her form has deteriorated, and she has lost all motivation to succeed because her new team coach is changing her techniques and killing her artistry. Oh, and he's not very encouraging, either. My child (like any other) thrives on encouragement and enthusiasm. In other words, she's a worse gymnast now than she was 2 months ago and I have lost all confidence that she'll have a successful season or stay in the sport. The new coach has held off on putting her in meets and is teaching her new techniques that are completely different from what I and other, successful optionals coaches have taught her. The problem is that the other coaches I have worked with all have had a Russian technical influence, but this coach is using Chinese techniques. My daughter is confused and frustrated to the point of quitting and I'm tempted to let her. I tried talking to the new coach, since I know this gymnast as her coach of 6 years, but he obstinately wants to stick to his techniques, despite the fact that they're detrimental to this gymnast.

As a coach, I'm especially frustrated because I know my techniques are tried and true, since they've won competitions for my teams and daughter in the past. This new coach will not answer any of my questions about the success of his gymnasts in meets, but we have a trophy case at home full of trophies. As a parent, I'm frustrated because our conversation was littered with negative comments about her work ethic (which had plummeted in the gym this month) and her potential. Everyone else I've worked with has had the opposite to say about my daughter.

My question is, how do I continue to approach this guy? He's killing my lovely gymnast (who isn't perfect, but she is talented)! I love the atmosphere of this new gym, but if my daughter quits because of him, then there's no reason for me to hang on there. Should I cut bait now before the damage is too bad, or just let it ride? I'm such a frustrated mom and coach right now!!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well now, never knew that there were different "techniques" in the pedagogical and sequential progression of gymnastics. lack of education maybe. whatever you see, then, is an insult to the chinese & russian techniques. the russians taught them everything they know. so maybe it's time to cut and run...

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

well now, never knew that there were different "techniques" in the pedagogical and sequential progression of gymnastics. lack of education maybe. whatever you see, then, is an insult to the chinese & russian techniques.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this -- with many skills, there is a very visible difference in techinques used by gymnasts from different regions. In the Tkatchev, for example, there is a very obvious difference between the eastern style (early tap, somewhat similar to the technique used by male gymnasts on high bar) and the western style (which uses a more standard giant). That said, whatever differences exist between chinese and russian styles have generally been subtle enough to escape my notice.

As for this:

so maybe it's time to cut and run...

This I agree with. Not so much because of the differences in technique (which I wouldn't pass judgement on without seeing for myself), but because of the lack of encouragement and enthusiasm.

 

[gymdog]

I think there are subtle differences in technique on some skills, but we're talking about level 7 gymnastics, not changing a tkatchev tap. Maybe the original poster can provide an example of a skill she had and lost. It sounds like things really aren't working out though. Would it possible to stay in your job and have your daughter attend another gym? It's a delicate situation.

 

[BlairBob]

I think you might want to check into other options for your DD as to what other gyms are around. It doesn't seem to be working out with that coach and more than likely it is not an option for you to coach her there.

 

[niklum]

<<Maybe the original poster can provide an example of a skill she had and lost. >>

For example, she had her giants. They were newly mastered on the bar set. Now she is forced to do tuck giants daily and never has the chance to do them in her bar routine, let alone on a bar set with full extension.

As another example, her beam series of back walkover handspring, which was once connected, is no longer. She has to stop to swing her arms between the skills per the new coach. Previously, her only problem was to turn out her left foot and flex it on the step out. She's had this connection since last June.

The new coach stresses arm swing between tumbling skills, so my daughter's RO BHS is no longer straight and stretched, but more akin to a Level 4. She was working fulls in December, but can't get the power now because of this new technique. It's very frustrating to see.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

tuck giants? arm swing/circle in her series?? between tumbling skills??? seriously???/ if you're a coach you know this is wrong or you're not a coach. either you don't know what you're talking about and you're pulling our legs OR the coach has NO idea what he's doing. bizarro...these techniques are not of anyone's gymnastics culture/country.

 

[gymdog]

tuck giants? arm swing/circle in her series?? between tumbling skills??? seriously???/ if you're a coach you know this is wrong or you're not a coach. either you don't know what you're talking about and you're pulling our legs OR the coach has NO idea what he's doing. bizarro...these techniques are not of anyone's gymnastics culture/country.

Yes, hearing the examples this is really strange. Have you had a meeting yet to ask about these things and his rationale behind them? I am not sure what it would be but maybe you could hear. Sounds very strange. What is the coaching background? Has this person coached high levels before? Is there a problem across the board?

I think it sounds like you're better off looking for another gym, at least for your daughter. If she previously had giants, connected series on beam, and was working fulls and now is doing the things you described, then that is just too much (plus the emotional damage of being discouraged). You can always just say that you don't want your daughter to be at the same gym as you because you want her gymnastics to be separate and not feel pressure that you're watching everything, etc. Is another gym a possibility?

 

[niklum]

Yes, we had a meeting that was frustrating and patronizing. He spoke to me as if I was an uneducated parent rather than the gymnastics professional I am. I've been bothered by his technique since Day 1 and the entire team is struggling on everything, which shows in their low places at meets. He refuses to answer specific questions with straight answers and told me that his style (learned at Congress in 1998) is the wave of the future. Well, if that's so, then why is the rest of the country not on board and why is the World Champion competing the style I learned and teach?

Thanks, everyone, for confirming what I've been thinking. My coworkers are also bothered by his techniques and his attitude, but they don't want to get involved. Since I'm the first parent/coworker, I have no choice. I can't allow my daughter to end up killing her potential because good habits were broken and bad habits instilled. I know that a few other gyms in the area are looking for coaches. I just don't want to be labeled as a gym hopper because of this - I've moved between states a couple of times in the past year, but it was because the locale wasn't best for us. Now we're settled in a fantastic area and I want to stay in one place (including a gym) for a very long time! I may need to have my daughter quit for a while until I can sort this out. I'd rather she get out of shape than develop horrid habits.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Tucked giants were the way I learned -- while they certainly wouldn't be my technique of choice, they can sometimes be effective in countering the tendency to arch too much at the top of a giant.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes...and for power giants...and especially for the boys. but not on an everyday basis to the expense of other necessary bar work.

 

[iwannacoach]

<<Maybe the original poster can provide an example of a skill she had and lost. >>

For example, she had her giants. They were newly mastered on the bar set. Now she is forced to do tuck giants daily and never has the chance to do them in her bar routine, let alone on a bar set with full extension.

As another example, her beam series of back walkover handspring, which was once connected, is no longer. She has to stop to swing her arms between the skills per the new coach. Previously, her only problem was to turn out her left foot and flex it on the step out. She's had this connection since last June.

The new coach stresses arm swing between tumbling skills, so my daughter's RO BHS is no longer straight and stretched, but more akin to a Level 4. She was working fulls in December, but can't get the power now because of this new technique. It's very frustrating to see.

Assuming this coach has a thorough understanding of the english language.....Arm swing!!! Are you kidding? If you are certain he means creating a defined angle between the arms and chest, He's waaaaayyy out in right field, and you have to do something about it.
Possibly He doesn't understand english well enough for his corrections to be understood, and my guess is that "arm swing" is meant as a slight upper body hollow in the chest to allow a smooth transition from skill#1 push-off, to skill #2 initiation, which could allow for a sweeping/swinging motion to initiate the back handspring. I can see that as a reasonable technique to ensure the kids are not using head jerks to move from skill to skill and are looking at the end of the beam they are tumbling away from, but it shouldn't be so extreme that you can actually see it with-out a trained eye. I've seen one chinese gymnast use a similar technique on a standing back tuck, and it's crazy how long she spots the end of the beam or somethig past the end of the beam as she's finishing her take-off.
I use tuck giants to correct kids that lack the "legs lead" mentality. I also like it to empasize continuity through the top of the giant when they insist on holding a 1/2 second hand stand. I have them stop doing conventional giants for up to a week while they use this drill. I want them to forget the bad habit, and continued giant training is only going to perfect the bad habits I want them to lose.
The bottom line is either somethings getting lost in translation and he's not comfortable enough with english to give long explanations to curious parents.....or.....He's way out there with his technique and doesn't have a clue. I hope you get it figured out, and if you decide moving your daughter is the best for her, do it!! If your club owner goes ballistic and stays that way for any length of time, you should get out of there too. Trying to stay and make it work will only burn you out.

 

[niklum]

Thanks, iwannacoach. We did end up moving because DD was so unhappy and the situation was deteriorating to the point that HC stopped coaching her. The club owner was surprised that we left, but was nice about it. DD doesn't have her giants back consistently, but everything else is much better. She can stick 10 BWO BHS series in a row now. Yayy! After a lot of thought, I figured out that the HC (who is American) just doesn't understand technique as much as he claims and I think he's too embarrassed or prideful to admit to his lack of knowledge. I learned to coach to the upper levels because I had the desire to learn and I listened and watched great, high level coaches as much as possible. Even after all these years, I still admit that I don't know everything and that there's a lot I could still learn. So I still learn and improve. I think that's key to succeeding at anything we do. We should be wise enough to admit that we don't know it all.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

yes...and for power giants...and especially for the boys. but not on an everyday basis to the expense of other necessary bar work.

A bit of a tangent here, but I've yet to settle on a method for teaching a chinese tap that I like. Are tucked giants a drill you'd recommend for that?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes. at precisely the time that you would unfold the body to make that tap.

 

[iwannacoach]

I can't stand "posers", fortunately they're easy to spot and have a tendency to become their own worst enemy. I'd say more about this but I have to go get my "hotshot, devo, J.E.T." squad away from the crayons and coloring books out in the lobby. Oh! by the way, were really hittin it hard to get ready for the 2023 olympics....Don't crowd around, I'm here all week.