Parents I think I need a little help understanding it all......

[Alyssa S.]

Relevance was first determined by the person who raised it.

It appears that my connection to this site is being frustrated and re-directed, by admin?

Advertisers are not likely to find such a practices valuable--especially bending ones own rules, e.g.:

While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate ... personal attacks...Please refrain from posting meaningless threads, one word (or short) non-sense posts, or the such [as in "uh oh" or "yikes"]. If you would just like to say "Thank You"...use the "Thank You" button.

 

[bogwoppit]

Relevance was first determined by the person who raised it.

It appears that my connection to this site is being frustrated and re-directed, by admin?

Advertisers are not likely to find such a practices valuable--especially bending ones own rules, e.g.:

While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate ... personal attacks...Please refrain from posting meaningless threads, one word (or short) non-sense posts, or the such [as in "uh oh" or "yikes"]. If you would just like to say "Thank You"...use the "Thank You" button.

I have given you an "off topic" warning. I have asked twice that those thread stay on topic. I have deleted any off topic posts since that point, yours and those of at least five other members.

Please stay on topic.

 

[bogwoppit]

Admin note - This thread needs to stay on topic. Last warning, next time I am closing it down.

 

[Natasha]

I know nothing about coaching diving or tumbling (unless you count the forward rolls I teach the 3 yo class ). I am curious to know from those of you with diving and tumbling experience though as from a completely untrained perspective, it seems to me that tumbling in gymnastics would possibly require a different "set" as in getting the power from the RO-BHS to get the height needed to do a BT and eventually LO, double tuck, etc, etc….? I can't imagine that diving needs to be concerned with finishing skills in a certain position to get power to lead into the next skill? It just seems to me that a diving coach teaching a gymnast these tumbling skills could possibly result in needing to re-learn skills?
I remember when my dd first started team on L4 and she would practice at home a lot (only had gym 6hrs a week). Yes, in those days before I knew better I would watch dance-throughs of routines and give her my "expert" feedback from all my knowledge gleaned from watching U-tube and USAG videos. I am so glad that I have since learned otherwise and gymnastics stays at the gym….they really do need a safe place at home to not be a gymnast when they hit the teenage/optional years and they have the bad practice days at the gym…

 

[Deleted member D3987]

A blindspot certainly amplified by many eastern European coaches and their next generation of coaches; but more like an absence of pedagogy.

Would you be willing to direct me/us to the research?

YOU said you were a Judge. YOU said you took the safety exam. you should know where to look. i'm published.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I know nothing about coaching diving or tumbling (unless you count the forward rolls I teach the 3 yo class ). I am curious to know from those of you with diving and tumbling experience though as from a completely untrained perspective, it seems to me that tumbling in gymnastics would possibly require a different "set" as in getting the power from the RO-BHS to get the height needed to do a BT and eventually LO, double tuck, etc, etc….? I can't imagine that diving needs to be concerned with finishing skills in a certain position to get power to lead into the next skill? It just seems to me that a diving coach teaching a gymnast these tumbling skills could possibly result in needing to re-learn skills?
I remember when my dd first started team on L4 and she would practice at home a lot (only had gym 6hrs a week). Yes, in those days before I knew better I would watch dance-throughs of routines and give her my "expert" feedback from all my knowledge gleaned from watching U-tube and USAG videos. I am so glad that I have since learned otherwise and gymnastics stays at the gym….they really do need a safe place at home to not be a gymnast when they hit the teenage/optional years and they have the bad practice days at the gym…

the approach and hurdle on either the board or platform are just as important as the gymnastics sister in its approach and hurdle in needing "a certain position to get power to lead in to the next skill."

once high level, it's not a safe idea to do both simultaneously. the transfer problem of head entry and foot entry can get confused.

 

[Carolinmk]

Here is a post by Dr. Alan Goldberg- psychology for athletes, coaches, and parents.

https://www.facebook.com/DrGsportspsych/posts/759468777454548

He gives great advice about allowing kids to do the sport for them.

I am a firm believer in allowing the coach to do the coaching and the parent being the cheerleader/encourager. By coaching your child it shows them you don't trust that their coach is doing their job and they lose trust in their coach.

 

[B.Gold]

Oh, the guilt I felt the summer of pre-team "breaking" my DDs BHS after allowing her a back yard trampoline. It looked awful. No exaggeration that it took her coach a year to help her fix it. I got rid of that trampoline after that.

 

[Uppity]

Diving and gmnastics are two very different sports. Approach, take off, rebound, come out, body shapes are all very different. Landings obviously, and twisting technique.

It's not as easy for ex- gymnasts to transfer over as you'd think, either.

O/p if you are a diving coach, as good as you say you are, you should know this. I had a diver go to a trampoline class while staying with a friend. The coach, apart from making sure she was safe, did not coach her at all, despite getting stars in his eyes at her ability.

Why? Because he could recognise that tramp and diving are different, and any major changes to technique would negatively affect her diving.

That is a good coach. One who realises what the athlete needs, when he doesn't know best and leaves it to those that do.

 

[Alyssa S.]

YOU said you were a Judge. YOU said you took the safety exam. you should know where to look. i'm published.

Published? Okay. I must be too old fashioned because searching for "dunno" does not lead to me to any peer-reviewed articles in any journals (certainly not those where my husband or I or our colleagues have been published).

Has anyone received "likes" from the original poster? Is he satisfied?

 

[Alyssa S.]

the approach and hurdle on either the board or platform are just as important as the gymnastics sister in its approach and hurdle in needing "a certain position to get power to lead in to the next skill."

once high level, it's not a safe idea to do both simultaneously. the transfer problem of head entry and foot entry can get confused.

Is it optimal for a right dominant (hand, leg, and twist) diver to 'hurdle" with the right knee up or with the left knee up?

 

[twinmomma]

Is it optimal for a right dominant (hand, leg, and twist) diver to 'hurdle" with the right knee up or with the left knee up?

Why would you attempt to "test" a gymnastics coach on a diving skill? As to your question about dunno and his identity, I'm not sure it takes too much to figure it out. The reality is, if you came here with any attempt at civil conversation, dunno would probably be more than happy to message you the things he's written.

That said, I want to say that you're relatively new here, and while I don't know how you handle in person social situations, but rarely is it ok to jump into the middle of a discussion of people you've just "met" and tell them all how wrong they are. The internet isn't any different than that awkward work party you have to attend for your spouse where you know nobody. Sometimes it's best to sit back and observe the dynamics of the group, maybe offer up some experiences of your own, but as bogwoppit says you've repeatedly gone off topic and been confrontational. I'm not a mod and I'll probably get in trouble for this post, but I don't understand your insistence on being adversarial. Dunno is HIGHLY respected among this crowd, and rightfully so. As are quite a few other coaches and knowledgeable parents who post here. You may have been more successful at influencing folks had you taken the time to learn some of the group dynamics around here and not assume that we are all just ignorant parents who don't know how to manage our kids in a high level sport. In addition, when you know you're going to go out with what you know is an unpopular opinion, you do so knowing that there will be backlash. Either be prepared to take the heat or don't go out with it.

 

[Alyssa S.]

Why would you attempt to "test" a gymnastics coach on a diving skill? As to your question about dunno and his identity, I'm not sure it takes too much to figure it out. The reality is, if you came here with any attempt at civil conversation, dunno would probably be more than happy to message you the things he's written.

That said, I want to say that you're relatively new here, and while I don't know how you handle in person social situations, but rarely is it ok to jump into the middle of a discussion of people you've just "met" and tell them all how wrong they are. The internet isn't any different than that awkward work party you have to attend for your spouse where you know nobody. Sometimes it's best to sit back and observe the dynamics of the group, maybe offer up some experiences of your own, but as bogwoppit says you've repeatedly gone off topic and been confrontational. I'm not a mod and I'll probably get in trouble for this post, but I don't understand your insistence on being adversarial. Dunno is HIGHLY respected among this crowd, and rightfully so. As are quite a few other coaches and knowledgeable parents who post here. You may have been more successful at influencing folks had you taken the time to learn some of the group dynamics around here and not assume that we are all just ignorant parents who don't know how to manage our kids in a high level sport. In addition, when you know you're going to go out with what you know is an unpopular opinion, you do so knowing that there will be backlash. Either be prepared to take the heat or don't go out with it.

Not a "test." A sincere question well within the boundaries of the discussion. It appears to me that SOME of the people here try so very hard to be offended (and defensive). I did not initiate the escalation in the adversarial tones perceived by some.

Somewhere between the original poster and the surprisingly large number of knowledgeable divers posting in response, there might be some common grounds. Is this one? Or are there further caveats and admonishments?

 

[gymmomtoo]

@bogwoppit Maybe you do need to close this thread since people seem to insist on going off topic.

 

[Alyssa S.]

Do you have any idea how many young USAG Compulsory girls are Right handed and being taught (by a majority of coaches making less than $14 per hour) to lead right, right hurdle, turn clockwise, and twist clockwise? That pattern is a presumption of the USAG compulsory routines (watch the exemplar videos of Level 4 beam). While there appears to be room for reversing some elements, it appears you would agree that coaches should not follow the video example.

 

[Seeker]

Do you have any idea how many young USAG Compulsory girls are Right handed and being taught (by a majority of coaches making less than $14 per hour) to lead right, right hurdle, turn clockwise, and twist clockwise? That pattern is a presumption of the USAG compulsory routines (watch the exemplar videos of Level 4 beam). While there appears to be room for reversing some elements, it appears you would agree that coaches should not follow the video example.

There are no twisting skills in the compulsory routines. Many "righties" twist counter-clockwise and that is totally acceptable. And the "video example" is just that...an example. There are allowances for both right and left dominant gymnasts.

 

[twinmomma]

My guess is the reason so many videos show you the "righty" way of doing something is that lefties are in the minority. Lefties make up about 10% of the population. Simply a statistically driven thing that at least 90% of the videos out there would feature a righty gymnast. The twist off in the L3 beam routine was done both directions by members of our team. In fact, we had about 2 out of our 20 who twisted "lefty". Here's the thing, kids are taught to lead with their "dominant". At least, that's how it works in our gym. And for about 90% of the kids, that results in leading right. It's not a conspiracy, it's just statistics.

 

[Alyssa S.]

There are no twisting skills in the compulsory routines. Many "righties" twist counter-clockwise and that is totally acceptable. And the "video example" is just that...an example. There are allowances for both right and left dominant gymnasts.

The compulsory beam dismount L3-5 are twists. Every round off is a twist. L4 beam cartwheel has a twist...

 

[Alyssa S.]

The video is much more than a mere example. It is an exemplar; performed with a reading of the official text. Come on. It is extremely influential to coaches and judges (and parents).

 

[Jenny]

This thread is off topic. OP asked nothing about twisting direction in any kind of way. @bogwoppit thread needs to be closed. It is going round in circles and is not relevant.