Anon If predicting a kids success at 6 is so tricky, why does Tops start so young?

[Anonymous (84a7)]

Hello,
I will preface this with knowing TOPS and D1 are not associated with each other.
I noticed the post about predicting D1 kids and was curious about this! Alot of the coaches were saying to just coach the kid in front of you and theres not much of a way to determine as things can drastically change...why even have a TOPS program to predict and train the kids that young towards an elite path?

 

[Anonymous (c477)]

Hello,
I will preface this with knowing TOPS and D1 are not associated with each other.
I noticed the post about predicting D1 kids and was curious about this! Alot of the coaches were saying to just coach the kid in front of you and theres not much of a way to determine as things can drastically change...why even have a TOPS program to predict and train the kids that young towards an elite path?

You can predict which 6-year-old has the *potential* to be a very good 9-year-old. And you can also predict that almost all of the girls, regardless of potential, will quit before high school. It’s a gamble and the returns are very low. That’s one reason most gyms, including some elite gyms, don’t have TOPs programs.

 

[Anonymous (f3d2)]

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally the intent was more around getting coaches of talented young athletes together to educate the coaches.

There is nothing magical about tops. It is simply another assessment of gymnasts using certain criteria. It can be used in a way motivate and push improvement in athletes. Some gyms appear to like the prestige.

It is/was an excellent experience for coaches which is why many seasoned coaches/programs don't participate in tops testing - but the fundamental skills and strength absolutely are worked within the gyms.

It's a good experience for the right kids, but it's not for everyone. With the right coaching talented kids don't need tops to succeed nor will tops make an average gymnast a star.

I'd say the program is most beneficial for gyms that have a few talented athletes who are outliers for age and ability to work and learn with their coaches alongside similar athletes.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Possibly unpopular opinion, but TOPS as it currently exists is a waste of time and effort.

Don't get me wrong, the TOPS skills and sequences are mostly excellent for technical development, but the age specifications undercut the stated goal of the program.

The science is pretty clear: study after study has found that kids are better off doing a large variety of sports at a young age, and waiting until much later to specialize and focus on excelling at any one particular sport. So with that in mind, a program explicitly aimed at high-intensity specialization at a young age kind of defeats its own purpose by design.

And I know that the underlying idea is that it's as much for the coaches as for the athletes, but education on classical mechanics, program design, sports science, and sports psychology would be far more helpful than evaluation of specific technical sequences.

 

[Anonymous (84a7)]

Possibly unpopular take, but TOPS as it currently exists is a waste of time and effort.

Don't get me wrong, the TOPS skills and sequences are mostly excellent for technical development, but the age specifications undercut the stated goal of the program.

The science is pretty clear: study after study has found that kids are better off doing a large variety of sports at a young age, and waiting until much later to specialize and focus on excelling at any one particular sport. So with that in mind, a program explicitly aimed at high-intensity specialization at a young age kind of defeats its own purpose by design.

And I know that the underlying idea is that it's as much for the coaches as for the athletes, but education on classical mechanics, program design, sports science, and sports psychology would be far more helpful than evaluation of specific technical sequences.

What are the studies saying exactly? Why is it better? What is better? What are the improved outcomes? How many sports? What ages? I love to read research so feel free to post some links here. Id love to read them.

 

[Anonymous (84a7)]

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally the intent was more around getting coaches of talented young athletes together to educate the coaches.

There is nothing magical about tops. It is simply another assessment of gymnasts using certain criteria. It can be used in a way motivate and push improvement in athletes. Some gyms appear to like the prestige.

It is/was an excellent experience for coaches which is why many seasoned coaches/programs don't participate in tops testing - but the fundamental skills and strength absolutely are worked within the gyms.

It's a good experience for the right kids, but it's not for everyone. With the right coaching talented kids don't need tops to succeed nor will tops make an average gymnast a star.

I'd say the program is most beneficial for gyms that have a few talented athletes who are outliers for age and ability to work and learn with their coaches alongside similar athletes.

Do they keep a list of gyms that participate?

At the end when you say along side similar athletes do you mean the older girls in the gym with the same skills?

 

[Anonymous (ba41)]

From a parents perspective making it to D1 can’t be predicted from TOPs because many have the talent and potential, but do they have the tenacity and grit to survive?

Making it to D1 feels like Survivor. How do you measure that?

Perhaps there are some that had an easy road, but in my experience it’s a rough road with setback after setback.

 

[Anonymous (84a7)]

From a parents perspective making it to D1 can’t be predicted from TOPs because many have the talent and potential, but do they have the tenacity and grit to survive?

Making it to D1 feels like Survivor. How do you measure that?

Perhaps there are some that had an easy road, but in my experience it’s a rough road with setback after setback.

Thats what it seems like for sure!!!

 

[Anonymous (ba41)]

Thats what it seems like for sure!!!

Not to mention the constant heartbreak and stress.

It felt like every time one thing went right and you feel on a positive path, 10 things go wrong to knock you back down.

 

[Anonymous (84a7)]

Not to mention the constant heartbreak and stress.

It felt like every time one thing went right and you feel on a positive path, 10 things go wrong to knock you back down.

Do you think that's how most athletes or parents feel?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

What are the studies saying exactly? Why is it better? What is better? What are the improved outcomes? How many sports? What ages? I love to read research so feel free to post some links here. Id love to read them.

Articles are a lot easier to find than the studies themselves, it seems, but here's what I was able to dig up in a few minutes:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/sports-injuries/youth-sport-specialization

Sports Specialization in Young Athletes: Evidence-Based Recommendations - PMC

Sports specialization is intense training in 1 sport while excluding others. Sports specialization in early to middle childhood has become increasingly common. While most experts agree that some degree of sports specialization is necessary to ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Realistically, if you're aiming for the collegiate or elite level, gymnasts have to specialize earlier than many other sports. However, I still think it's best to delay that as long as reasonably possible.

 

[Sebastian12]

Aiming for NCAA shouldn’t need early specialization. It was a big deal when NCAA opened to elite athletes, meaning these are two life tragedies for gymnasts. NCAA athletes meant to have a balanced sports and academic life and have the package the colleges want to see in any other students. Sadly, college gymnastics became more competitive and drove the families into early specialization. In my humble opinion as a parent, this is not a trend we should chase after, this is the trend we should fight against.

 

[Anonymous (ba41)]

Do you think that's how most athletes or parents feel?

I think that probably depends on what their path looked like.

My daughter has definitely known girls that had an easier time - less injuries, great coaches etc.

But the majority have had major struggles in one way or another.

The few we know who had an easier path are the ones who didn’t get to level 10 in 5th grade….. Too much too early.

My daughter grew up in the time where girls could commit in 7th and 8th grade! Complete insanity.

 

[Anonymous (a406)]

What are the studies saying exactly? Why is it better? What is better? What are the improved outcomes? How many sports? What ages? I love to read research so feel free to post some links here. Id love to read them.

My kids are grown and flown and I'm a news junkie. This has been widely reported in multiple news outlets for the last 15-20 years at least. Here's what a quick google search for 'sport specialization in young athletes' turned up. I tried to stick with sources from reputable research based institutions. You can read through the articles/abstracts (and look at the list of sources to learn even more). What is clear - the risk of overuse injury and burnout is increased by early specialization.

Sports Specialization in Young Athletes: Evidence-Based Recommendations - PMC

Sports specialization is intense training in 1 sport while excluding others. Sports specialization in early to middle childhood has become increasingly common. While most experts agree that some degree of sports specialization is necessary to ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sports Specialization and Intensive Training in Young Athletes

Sports specialization is becoming the norm in youth sports for a variety of reasons. When sports specialization occurs too early, detrimental effects may occur, both physically and psychologically. If the timing is correct and sports specialization is performed under the correct conditions, the...

publications.aap.org

The Dangers of Early Sport Specialization

Understand the pressure and risks young athletes face with early sports specialization, including increased injuries and mental health issues.

www.nfhs.org

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/sports-injuries/youth-sport-specialization

 

[Dahlialover]

What are the studies saying exactly? Why is it better? What is better? What are the improved outcomes? How many sports? What ages? I love to read research so feel free to post some links here. Id love to read them.

Just type “early sports specialization” into PubMed and read away.

 

[Dahlialover]

Here are the standard medical guidelines for safe youth sports participation:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/sports-injuries/youth-sport-specialization?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

[Dahlialover]

I will say that I tried to listen to these guidelines by having my son take a lot of time off during the summer (he missed equivalent of two months during the summer due the to trips, gym closures, illness, and wanting to do other things). When he returned to regular training in the fall, he was super focused and he made tremendous progress, but after just 7 weeks, he developed multiple serious overuse injuries that cost him his whole season. Overuse injuries can happen in a very short period of time. It turns out that significant increases in training intensity are a huge risk-factor for overuse injuries. I thought taking time off would protect him, but the opposite was true. This sport is hard to navigate safely. Kids need time off for their physical and mental health, but it’s also extremely difficult to ramp up training intensity gradually upon return. It’s a Catch-22.