Individual event specialization now allowed/practical in women's USAG L7-10

[gymdog]

I see no problem with this.

Besides, the men's side has allowed specialization for ages (and has never had mobility scores at all), and competitions are still dominated by all-arounders. I suspect that with women, who only have four events (three of which are floor), specialization will be even less common than with men.

And it still hasn't happened within the levels as it's been allowed, just as a way to get to regionals or whatever. I really have only seen it with older girls in extenuating circumstances. I think most optional coaches are looking ahead developmentally, and they aren't going to sacrifice an event that could be improved long term just to get some short term gain (nor are many optional families and gymnasts going to accept that). It would have to be a decision in the long run best interest, and I think in almost all cases until the girl is much closer to NCAA gymnastics, it wouldn't make sense to discard an event. Plus, with the training format of most gyms, it would be inconvenient to have a bunch of young optionals just training all these random events, rather than all four together.

 

[gymjourneymom]

I admit I don't know much about event specialist at any level. I just know what I've witnessed at DD's gym. At her gym competing anything but JO AA has always carried with it an unspoken(& sometimes spoken) negative stigma. JO AA=good, Event Specialist or Prep-op=bad. Let me make it clear I DO NOT agree with that line of thinking. Thankfully the tide is turning a bit. Taking alternate routes is a little more accepted. But it is clear to them that the ultimate goal for a gymnast at DD's gym is competing JO AA & progression through JO levels. Even if it takes sometime doing alternate options to get there. So Prep Op & event specialist are treated as "stages" along the road back to JO AA and not a permanent long term options.

The girls I know who have competed as event specialist, have done so because it was their last resort. They were not trying to take an easy road to winning. But rather just trying to continue progressing where they could, rather than quitting. They are generally embarrassed to NOT be competing AA(that part breaks my heart). It is always clear that their goal is to hopefully get the needed events & go back to competeing AA ASAP. They still practice all 4 events just the same as the rest of the team. Event Specialist & Prep Op & JO all practice right along together, with the same amount of hours.

I applaud the event specialist I know for sticking with the sport! Especially when they face their own personal adversity(whatever is stalling their progress) & the negative stigma they may feel from not competing AA.

I agree with Happyfacetwin on this point. That being able to progress & compete where they can, helps keep them motivate to keep trying to overcome whatever obstacle is keeping them from competing AA.

I would like to see event specialists more widely "accepted". It's a wonderful route to keep gymnasts in the sport who might otherwise give up totally & quit. If more rules are needed, to keep it fair to the AA gymnasts, I think that that would be fine. And I believe the gymnasts & coaches I know would support such rules. The gymnasts I know would be horrified to hear that anyone thought they were "taking the easy path" because it's NOT easy for them!!! They are usually fighting many battles just to be still in the sport. They want to be able to stand proud & not be accused of taking anything away from the AA gymnasts.

I admit I'm not very knowledgeable about USAG rules. Can you give me some more examples of rules that might make event specialist more accepted & still be fair to AA gymnasts??? Is there such a way to make it fair??? I really hope so for all involved.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

I hope that coaches will be very careful in allowing a girl to specialize at level 7 or 8. One of the basic, wonderful challenges about AA gymnastics is the requirement to be versatile and succeed even at events which are not naturally a gymnast's strong suit. Specialization for one season or part of a season would be excellent in the case of injury or at higher levels when NCAA is the goal. One gymnast I know competed one season at L10, dropped back to 9 for her senior year, and specialized in vault and floor for her last year in high school, with the goal of competing (not on scholarship) for Southern Utah. However, I think any gymnast should be proficient at all 4 events at a semiadvanced level - until level 7 or 8, excepting the case of injury or other special circumstances, such as a late starter wishing to specialize in order to make it to NCAA level. It is simply the range of talent and dedication required to succeed in gymnastics that makes it such a wonderful sport.

 

[bookworm]

In terms of placing at meets, the event specialist gets a "duplicate" award but the AA gymnast gets the first award in the placement (at least that is how it went at this year's Regionals and States...we didn't see specialists at any of our other meets) ...for example," Susie (the AA) in first place with a 9.4 and receiving a duplicate award is Sally, an event specialist" and that's exactly how they announced it...not as a tie but as a "duplicate" award which I thought was a bit odd in the wording...from what i heard at these meets, the event specialist cannot displace an AA for an award unless her score is higher (duh) so it does give the specialist opportunity to place in meets.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Thanks for hearing me out & understanding my point Notamom. I feel sorry for the gymnast that you describe. I cannot believe that a gymnast that has put so much into the sport & still shows up for practice everyday, does not in her heart want to progress. And I doubt that she really wants to stay the same level for the rest of her gymnastics career either. I'm sure she is crushed each time her friends move up without her.

I would venture to say this is no easy road for her. She is obviously fighting some battle, we just don't know what it is. I imagine there is some reason that she is "refusing" to learn new skills. My guess would be severe fear issues, but that is just a guess. Sometimes fear can be crippling & stall them in their tracks.

The gymnast you refer to, may actually be the type of gymnast that would benefit from being an event specialist. If she still loves the sport & still puts forth great effort where she can, why should she not continue to progress in the events that she can? Is it fair for the other L7's to compete against someone who continues to repeat the same level year after year? I would think moving this gymnast up to compete the L8 events she is willing & able to, would be a more fair option for all involved. And it would keep her progressing instead of being totally stalled in her progress. JMHO.

 

[gymnut1]

I don't think this would be fair for an AA gymnast when it comes to placement and ranking. There are many advantages for a gymnast to train and compete in only selected event(s). When competing together, I think some sort of handicap system should be used. Otherwise you will have proportionally more specialists moving onto the next round.

sort of like the international system then people thought it would kill off the aa but that has not happened - when you look at the event finals at worlds and euros plenty of AA peeps make the finals. And without event specialists we wouldn't have Chuso or Beth Tweddle still going

QUOTE]

 

[NGL780309]

I don't think this would be fair for an AA gymnast when it comes to placement and ranking. There are many advantages for a gymnast to train and compete in only selected event(s). When competing together, I think some sort of handicap system should be used. Otherwise you will have proportionally more specialists moving onto the next round.

sort of like the international system then people thought it would kill off the aa but that has not happened - when you look at the event finals at worlds and euros plenty of AA peeps make the finals. And without event specialists we wouldn't have Chuso or Beth Tweddle still going

QUOTE]

I wasn't aware Beth was a specialists now. When did she stop training AA?

 

[gymnut1]

Years ago. She hasn't trained beam in years. She only competes floor and bars but I read she does train vault because she has a decent yurchenko which might be needed in a team comp if someone was injured.

 

[jdf]

Maybe in some cases, you could have a really good vaulter and tumbler but bars and beam are just not coming along at all and that kills the AA so much they can't even get the 8.5. But even that seems a little less likely to me. I don't think the program has been utilized to its full potential yet so I admit I probably can't really make projections like that. It may be possible but just hasn't been a recognized option to train like that yet.

This is my daughter. She is on level 6, and is a very strong vaulter and tumbler. She needs to really work the beam, and struggles on bars. I would like to see her keep working in all areas for a year or two, but then (maybe at level 8?When she is in high school?) let her specialize on floor and vault. I can see that at a certain point, no matter how successful she is on vault and floor, the other two would make her question whether she wants to continue.

 

[CoachTodd]

I see the advantage to allowing specialists at 9 and 10. I'm not sure about allowing it at 7 and 8 though. At that age, I think the girls should still be pushed to work through their weak events. I think if my dd knew about this, she'd want to drop floor just because she sometimes gets tumbling blocks. In the long run, though, if she did that, I think she'd regret it.

I'm curious how allowing it at level 7 and 8 has anything to do with age? In my mind it would be the older gymnasts trying to put something together maybe for college and to do so, they'd concentrate on their strong event. I've know quite a few kids that could have rocked floor at the college level but can't do bars.

When did age start determining levels?

 

[CoachTodd]

Here's a better question instead of worrying about a specialist beating an AA gymnast (On the men's side I seldom saw this happen and I really don't think it matters since the specialist can't take away the AA from the AA person) I'd like to see one question answered without any politics behind it.

Why do we need mobility scores?

The serve not purpose for the gymnast as long as the coaches have the gymnasts best interest in mind.
I love the USAG answer. They say it's to make sure they are proficient at the previous level skills before they are allowed to compete the more difficult skills of the next level. This is BULL. 85% of the judging at each level is done on dance and form. I could do the level 6 girls' floor routine with next to no tumbling and still get a high enough score to mobilize to 7.
Levels 7, 8, and 9 all have very specific requirements on each event. If the kid doesn't have the skills on those events, they most likely aren't going to compete. I can't see where the USAG needs to determine if they are allowed to move up to the next level instead of letting the coach and gymnast make that decision.
I like the fact that should I desire to put in the training time, I could take my 40+ year old butt, work a strong vault, then go to a men's meet at elite and compete against some of the best in the country. If I were female, I wouldn't have this option.

 

[gymnut1]

Here's a better question instead of worrying about a specialist beating an AA gymnast (On the men's side I seldom saw this happen and I really don't think it matters since the specialist can't take away the AA from the AA person) I'd like to see one question answered without any politics behind it.

Why do we need mobility scores?

The serve not purpose for the gymnast as long as the coaches have the gymnasts best interest in mind.
I love the USAG answer. They say it's to make sure they are proficient at the previous level skills before they are allowed to compete the more difficult skills of the next level. This is BULL. 85% of the judging at each level is done on dance and form. I could do the level 6 girls' floor routine with next to no tumbling and still get a high enough score to mobilize to 7.
Levels 7, 8, and 9 all have very specific requirements on each event. If the kid doesn't have the skills on those events, they most likely aren't going to compete. I can't see where the USAG needs to determine if they are allowed to move up to the next level instead of letting the coach and gymnast make that decision.
I like the fact that should I desire to put in the training time, I could take my 40+ year old butt, work a strong vault, then go to a men's meet at elite and compete against some of the best in the country. If I were female, I wouldn't have this option.

We think you should do this

 

[NGL780309]

I don't think this would be fair for an AA gymnast when it comes to placement and ranking. There are many advantages for a gymnast to train and compete in only selected event(s). When competing together, I think some sort of handicap system should be used. Otherwise you will have proportionally more specialists moving onto the next round.

sort of like the international system then people thought it would kill off the aa but that has not happened - when you look at the event finals at worlds and euros plenty of AA peeps make the finals. And without event specialists we wouldn't have Chuso or Beth Tweddle still going

QUOTE]

I wouldn't consider Chuso a specialist. Vault may be the event she shines on, but she still competes AA and was training AA. She competed AA in 2008 Olympics and in some competitions before being injured.

I heard she plans on trying for 2012. I hope she can make it.

 

[NGL780309]

I wasn't aware Beth was a specialists now. When did she stop training AA?

I just thought it was injuries keeping her out in the short term. Sad to hear.

 

[ZZMom]

Wow! I wish this would have been a possibility for my older DD. She was a level 10 and retired at 16 due to back pain from a back condition called Scheuermann's Disease. She would have loved the chance to compete the events that didn't hurt her back (vault and bars). I'm glad other kids will have this opportunity.

Regards,

ZZ and E's Mom

 

[gymnut1]

I just thought it was injuries keeping her out in the short term. Sad to hear.

Not sad at all - her beam sucked

She is great at what she does and I would rather she keep going longer on less pieces - the feeling of watching her win at worlds and Euros will stay with me forever.

I didn't know Chuso was still competing aa. I have only seen footage of her on vault and floor recently. Well there you go!

 

[NotAMom]

Is it fair for the other L7's to compete against someone who continues to repeat the same level year after year?

Definitely couldn't disagree with you there.

 

[bogwoppit]

But you know there are many reasons for repeating year after year. My own DD basically did the same level since she was nine ntiuntil she was 13, this was due to many injuries. She did get a few new skills, but also lost some. Without specialisation she would've quit years earlier.

You cannot tar every gymmie with the same brush. You also cannot let fear guide the bringing in of new rules.

At our meets they give awards for the AA gymmies and then have a second award ceremony for the specialist gymnasts! Really doesn't change a thing for the AA girls.

 

[grizzoline]

Not sad at all - her beam sucked

She is great at what she does and I would rather she keep going longer on less pieces - the feeling of watching her win at worlds and Euros will stay with me forever.

I didn't know Chuso was still competing aa. I have only seen footage of her on vault and floor recently. Well there you go!

Yeah, Beth's beam really did suck - relatively speaking, of course. There is a horrible video of her beam from the AA in Athens. Quite the meltdown, which was a bummer, as she could have placed quite well, considering her strong bars and floor. Also, wasn't there something about her not being able to do backwards landings anymore after an ankle injury - I'm sure the ankle hurt her beam as well.

As far as Chuso goes - she's only coming back now but said something about potentially specialising. This year she has only competed vault and beam, I think.

 

[gymnut1]

I cant remember the last time I saw Chuso on bars. Im sure you are right. Beth avoids back landings because of her ankles. I am more than happy to see these top gymnasts continue on their 'good' pieces.

As for JO I think it is great for teenagers to continue pressing forwards on their better pieces.

Does anyone know if you will be able to 'multi level' ie will girls be able to compete level 9 floor and bars and level 8 vault and beam for example. I know you can do that in T & T.

I personally don't think specialisation is needed at level 7 but can see it being great from level 8 and up.