WAG JO Code changes 2018-2022

[GrayCatMom]

You have to read the small print. The real change here is in level 6.

Level 7 can can still receive a10.0 SV as long as they have a cast to 3/4, and any cast not to handstand still incurs an amplitude deduction.

For level 6, they can still get a 10.0 SV as long as they have a cast above horizontal, but if they cast to 3/4 or higher, they receive no amplitude deduction.

So was there an amplitude deduction before for not getting to handstand for level 6 even though it wasn't required to hit handstand? If there was, this sounds like a good thing for those girls like mine that are struggling with the kip cast handstand. Hoping she will have it solid by the end of summer so she can compete 6.

 

[fuzi]

So was there an amplitude deduction before for not getting to handstand for level 6 even though it wasn't required to hit handstand? If there was, this sounds like a good thing for those girls like mine that are struggling with the kip cast handstand. Hoping she will have it solid by the end of summer so she can compete 6.

Correct. In the last cycle, the expectation for all casts in optional levels 6-10 was handstand. Any cast not to handstand received a deduction.

Now, in level 6, there will be no deduction for cast height as long as your reach 45 from vertical.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Wait ... level 8 beam requires 4 A skills and 4 B skills. But to not get a "not up to level deduction," you need at least 3 B acro skills (two flight skills in the series and another stand-alone acro skill) plus 2 B dance skills? So, you actually need at least 5 B skills, not four.

I fundamentally dislike the idea of meeting the rules of the level and still being deducted for not being up-to-level. If you meet the rules of the level, by definition you should be up to level.

So how is this fixed? Go to open ended scoring. This is what we have for level 7-10. Just like in FIG they receive a Difficulty score which comprises their composition requirements, connection points, bonus points and their assigned difficulty value for each skill. Then theynhave an execution score out of 10. Add them together and boom a score that rewards both difficulty and execution.

 

[skschlag]

So how is this fixed? Go to open ended scoring. This is what we have for level 7-10. Just like in FIG they receive a Difficulty score which comprises their composition requirements, connection points, bonus points and their assigned difficulty value for each skill. Then theynhave an execution score out of 10. Add them together and boom a score that rewards both difficulty and execution.

That is what MAG does in the states......

 

[MILgymFAM]

Does anyone else feel like Jennifer Anniston in Office Space?



I mean, why have minimums if those aren’t good enough. If what they really want to see is more than that, why not just require it? To say the deductions are small is minimizing when 0.2 could be the difference between 1st and 10th (or more) place. I like the open ended system- it’s also what they have in T&T optionals.

 

[Natasha]

I understand that it is just a small deduction. But I think it is fundamentally wrong to deduction for "not up to level" when one meets all the requirements of the level. I get the whole deduction for not completing the skill with perfect form. And I also get the point of deducting for unbalanced routines that are all acro or all dance. But there is actually no way to have a four A and four B routine that does not get deducted for not up to level. So clearly the level should require 5 Bs and not four.

I really don't think it would be an issue if they just labeled it differently. If it helps, think of it as a "not the most difficult allowable routine" deduction rather than 'not up to competitive level" because, it truly is a deduction for not being as difficult as allowed.... If the level REQUIRED 5Bs that would be a .3 deduction for a missing B vs less than .1

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The solution is not to deduct for the minimum but to give credit for doing more.

 

[Natasha]

The solution is not to deduct for the minimum but to give credit for doing more.

It is really just semantics. I guess for L8 you could think of it as a 9.8 start value with earning 'difficulty bonus' but in terms of actually figuring scores, that would just get unnecessarily complicated when you get to L9 and L10 and you already have the bonus. But...if it helps to just think of it that way, go ahead....

 

[MILgymFAM]

It is really just semantics. I guess for L8 you could think of it as a 9.8 start value with earning 'difficulty bonus' but in terms of actually figuring scores, that would just get unnecessarily complicated when you get to L9 and L10 and you already have the bonus. But...if it helps to just think of it that way, go ahead....

Except if they want to treat L8 like L9 and L10, then it really should be treated like them. If not open ended, then all three should have a 10 SV if requirements are met and then bonuses if they really want to differentiate harder routines.

 

[raenndrops]

Except if they want to treat L8 like L9 and L10, then it really should be treated like them. If not open ended, then all three should have a 10 SV if requirements are met and then bonuses if they really want to differentiate harder routines.

Or, like in L9 and L10, admit that the SR only earn you a 9.xx SV and you have to earn the additional tenths through additional difficulty.

 

[coachmolly]

As an Xcel coach for the last 5 seasons where there really aren't "up to level deductions"- there are some that can be interpreted that way, but they really aren't taken, I am 100% in support of requiring routines to be up to a certain level and rewarding those that go above and beyond and do it well, especially at the higher levels. It is so frustrating to see a kid do a stunning routine with high level, high quality skills get beaten by a small margin by a gym that does that bare minimum skills just because your kid went above and beyond and did it very well, but obviously more/harder skills means more to deduct- even if they are done well.
I also think it pushes gyms who have their kids compete the easiest possible routines (even though the child is capable of more) to ensure winning teams to step out of their comfort zone and gives incentive to go for more. Because if all 3 of your kids contributing to the team score get .2 in composition deductions, that's going to hurt.
However, I do see where implementing it differently might be beneficial. I know it's semantics, but maybe like another poster suggested a 9.8 SV with options for level appropriate bonus. I do like the way the composition deductions are spelled out much better this time around allowing for much less variability among judges and think that will be very helpful in terms of scoring consistency.

 

[CoachAlex]

So girls with mental blocks on flyaway will either be stuck in level 4 or Xcel?

The bar dismount for level 5 is a flyaway - never made any sense to me that level 6 didn’t require a flyaway.

 

[raenndrops]

The bar dismount for level 5 is a flyaway - never made any sense to me that level 6 didn’t require a flyaway.

But it is a flyaway out of 2 tap swings... not as scary for some that way.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

But it is a flyaway out of 2 tap swings... not as scary for some that way.

Negative , flyaways are easier out of a cast . The fear may come into play because it's different.

 

[mommyof1]

Negative , flyaways are easier out of a cast . The fear may come into play because it's different.

Are they safer out of a cast? As a parent, I find watching the tap swings and flyaway in the L5 routine very scary.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Negative , flyaways are easier out of a cast . The fear may come into play because it's different.

I am not a coach, and can only speak for my kid, but Puma Jr said pretty much the same. That it seems scary at first to do it out of a cast, but once you do it, it’s way easier. And I think her flyaway is way better out of giants in her IGC Silver routine, vs her Bronze routine where she can’t do the giants. She does a layout flyaway if that matters.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I am not a coach, and can only speak for my kid, but Puma Jr said pretty much the same. That it seems scary at first to do it out of a cast, but once you do it, it’s way easier. And I think her flyaway is way better out of giants in her IGC Silver routine, vs her Bronze routine where she can’t do the giants. She does a layout flyaway if that matters.

Fear is as important as how easy or hard something is. Which is my my DD can twist but doesn’t do bhs. Why she’s learning a toe on but can’t flyaway. She lost hers both times in the transition to doing it from a new skill- a cast and then a clear hip- so easier or not... it was harder. At least for her.

 

[raenndrops]

Negative , flyaways are easier out of a cast . The fear may come into play because it's different.

Not easier out of a cast for ALL. That's why I said for some
Most of our L6s take the deduction and do one tap swing into their flyaway for that reason (until they are comfortable doing it out of the cast... or out of a clear hip).

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Fear is as important as how easy or hard something is. Which is my my DD can twist but doesn’t do bhs. Why she’s learning a toe on but can’t flyaway. She lost hers both times in the transition to doing it from a new skill- a cast and then a clear hip- so easier or not... it was harder. At least for her.

Yup. All kids are different. There are multiple things that Puma Jr “should” have been able to do/not do at certain points. They all have their own journey! I think whoever’s (I forget by now lol) point was that it’s not crazy to require a salto dismount at L6 IF it’s already required at L5. BUT...I agree with you that it’s a tough rule change for kids that are successful on L6 bars with other skills (and other L6 events) but struggle with just the flyaway. But they didn’t ask me. Lol.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Not easier out of a cast for ALL. That's why I said for some
Most of our L6s take the deduction and do one tap swing into their flyaway for that reason (until they are comfortable doing it out of the cast... or out of a clear hip).

It's physics. Much easier , the mental part depends on the kid and coaches ,