WAG Kip arm bend

[Deleted member 14190]

Yup, that's straight. I'll concede that one.

But I still say that's the exception, not the rule.

==
I agree that it is rare, a constant battle, time consuming, and has its draw backs,, with that said, do you not agree that the child who displays this should get rewarded for it? And if you agree then a deduction must be taken for those who bend which means it is the rule.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

==
I agree that it is rare, a constant battle, time consuming, and has its draw backs,, with that said, do you not agree that the child who displays this should get rewarded for it?

No, because it has at least as much to do with morphology as it does to do with strength or technique.

And if you agree then a deduction must be taken for those who bend which means it is the rule.

Consider this: the current code doesn't reward straight body casts over straddled casts, even though one requires superior strength and technique.
Some details are so minor that they're not worth the trouble.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

No, because it has at least as much to do with morphology as it does to do with strength or technique.



Consider this: the current code doesn't reward straight body casts over straddled casts, even though one requires superior strength and technique.
Some details are so minor that they're not worth the trouble.

==
Interesting, Well I don't think your going to get your wish of doing away with the deduction, that would be a travesty in our sport.
As far as the straight body cast, You mention "superior strength and technique" but in the same breath you want to do away with the casting deduction for bending the arms???? That my friend doesn't make sense... It's not superior strength when you are cheating and bending your arms ,,, and I certainly wouldn't consider the bent arm technique to be superior either....
Anyways,,,, perhaps we can meet up at regionals this year for a beer.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

==
Interesting, Well I don't think your going to get your wish of doing away with the deduction, that would be a travesty in our sport.

Why? That's how the skill is done by most gymnasts, including at the top level. I see nothing wrong with it.

As far as the straight body cast, You mention "superior strength and technique" but in the same breath you want to do away with the casting deduction for bending the arms???? That my friend doesn't make sense.

I think you missed my point.

It's not superior strength when you are cheating and bending your arms ,,, and I certainly wouldn't consider the bent arm technique to be superior either.

It is neither superior nor inferior. It is honest and realistic. Bent arms is how the skill is generally done.

Anyways,,,, perhaps we can meet up at regionals this year for a beer.

Now you're talking my language

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Why? That's how the skill is done by most gymnasts, including at the top level. I see nothing wrong with it.



I think you missed my point.



It is neither superior nor inferior. It is honest and realistic. Bent arms is how the skill is generally done.



Now you're talking my language

Beers it is!

 

[Dr Maleficent]

Beers it is!

Awww, gotta love a happy ending

 

[munchkin3]

Can I print this thread out and slip it to the judges before states?
Very interesting stuff.....thanks everyone....I love the details of this stuff.

 

[Jenny]

It is neither superior nor inferior. It is honest and realistic. Bent arms is how the skill is generally done.

That doesn't make it what we should be striving for or deducting from. We should be aiming for perfection. And it can be done.

After all if we use the benchmark of 'generally done' to other skills in WAG can you imagine the dreadful level split leaps and twisting could descend to.

And the body morphology bit doesn't work for me either. You could argue that some kids have bodies built so tight they cannot reach a decent split, or fast twitch so slow they cannot tumble more than an inch above the ground. Would you also remove those deductions?

 

[Dr Maleficent]

Can I print this thread out and slip it to the judges before states?

Only if you keep your arms absolutely straight whilst doing so. Or it's deductions for you

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

That doesn't make it what we should be striving for or deducting from. We should be aiming for perfection. And it can be done.

After all if we use the benchmark of 'generally done' to other skills in WAG can you imagine the dreadful level split leaps and twisting could descend to.

And the body morphology bit doesn't work for me either. You could argue that some kids have bodies built so tight they cannot reach a decent split, or fast twitch so slow they cannot tumble more than an inch above the ground. Would you also remove those deductions?

Do you think female gymnasts should be deducted for doing a straddled cast rather than a straight body cast?

 

[gymdog]

Well, I agree with both sides. They should get deducted for execution, after all if you are not flexible it will be much harder for you to do beam back handsprings but you will still get deductions. Or if you are super flexible it will look like you're not jumping and you'll get amplitude deductions and might arch on other things. Everyone has pluses and minuses in terms of deductions, that's just the nature of the sport. Practically I think there is some level of not locked arms in the kip that is not entirely perceptible to the judges and doesn't get deducted.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Do you think female gymnasts should be deducted for doing a straddled cast rather than a straight body cast?

Everything is trending towards straddle, even in the elite world. I would imagine that once all Americans start straddle casting at the elite level FIG will quickly make a change to penalize the straddle. Lol. On a serious note, if you are competing the straight over the straddle STOP.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

How is bending the arms to cast any different from separating the legs? I see no reason to punish either one.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

How is bending the arms to cast any different from separating the legs? I see no reason to punish either one.

One wins the other doesn't.

 

[Jenny]

How is bending the arms to cast any different from separating the legs? I see no reason to punish either one.

Bent arms are ugly, straddle casts can be pretty. straight casts can be ugly too. Straight is more difficult. But they are worth the same. But then aren't tuck and pike double backs worth the same. And one is harder? Just thinking out loud ready. But I would never want them to encourage bent arms.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

One wins the other doesn't.

I beg to differ.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Everything is trending towards straddle, even in the elite world. I would imagine that once all Americans start straddle casting at the elite level FIG will quickly make a change to penalize the straddle. Lol. On a serious note, if you are competing the straight over the straddle STOP.

But aren't they already valued differently in the FIG code? Isn't a straddle cast hs an A and a straight cast hs a B?

 

[Jenny]

USAG code?

 

[Jenny]

Double post sorry

 

[wandrewsjr]

USAG code?

They are both B's in USAG JO code.