Women Kips with Straight Arms

[Becauseisaid]

DD has her kip, but straight arms is hit or miss for her. She was talking about it yesterday and mentioned that her HC was telling her she needs to make sure her glide is more extended. However, this is where little girl stubbornness comes in. DD mentioned to me "But XX has short glides and she makes her kip!" Now XX is a teammate who is much stronger than DD and I mentioned that that probably helps her with her kip and HC knows what will help DD with her own kip. Whew!

ANYWAY....the conversation made me curious. What part of the kip helps create straight arms?

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Short answer - without momentum from a glide you lack the potential to kip (or even a straight arm kip).

Longer answer - The extended glide allows you to transfer that effort, by pulling the feet towards the bar, to circling your hips behind the bar. The kip has the miracle three - strength (to perform the kip), timing and technique. With the correct application of the miracle three the kip can be done with straight arms.

Becauseisaid, I hope my answer assists. I am deliberately trying to stay away form lots of detail and jargon.

Congrats on the DD's first stages of kipping. Best, SBG -

 

[Becauseisaid]

Thanks SBG!

Have at it with detail and jargon. I can usually keep up. I assumed that this wouldn't have a simple "Oh this one piece makes all the difference" answer. If it were that simple, the kip wouldn't be such a bugger for girls to get.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

KIPS - A start this morning -

Modeling a human doing physical skills is complex. Kips have been around a long while and much has been worked on - fortunately. Modeling the human into segments is important, but assumptions have to be made. Humans differ in length, mass and ability to produce "work." A kip for each of us varies. Continuing - Each segment has mass and the CM of each can move, rotate and change height (relative to ground).

A LB kip starts with potential energy as they stand on the mounting board (block). They jump to the bar lifting their hips behind them and create a bit more potential energy. During the swing phase total energy (sum of kinetic and potential energy) decreases, mostly due to friction with bar. Energy (while doing the skill) then increases. Work now commences. When you lift your legs it changes the location of the center of mass (and thus increase the gravitational potential energy) and increases her rotational rate (which increases her kinetic energy). The straight arms pushing against the bar contributes to completing the rotation of the hips upward and behind the bar.


Human - Body tension throughout the skill is needed to be able to maintain power during this approx. 1 sec. skill. Force generated while doing the kip have been measured as high as 2.3 x body weight (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6652865 - study on mens HB). Abs, hip muscles, low back, legs are heavily involved in the work of lifting your legs at the end of the swing.

The timing of lifting your legs has a small window to be applied - too late poor transfer of momentum, too early not enough. Bent legs transfer lower energy. The timing of grip shift (in order to have the potential to push on the UB) and continue rotation is critical.

I am running out of steam and time.....I hope this contributes. SBG -

 

[Gymsanity]

KIPS - A start this morning -

Modeling a human doing physical skills is complex. Kips have been around a long while and much has been worked on - fortunately. Modeling the human into segments is important, but assumptions have to be made. Humans differ in length, mass and ability to produce "work." A kip for each of us varies. Continuing - Each segment has mass and the CM of each can move, rotate and change height (relative to ground).

A LB kip starts with potential energy as they stand on the mounting board (block). They jump to the bar lifting their hips behind them and create a bit more potential energy. During the swing phase total energy (sum of kinetic and potential energy) decreases, mostly due to friction with bar. Energy (while doing the skill) then increases. Work now commences. When you lift your legs it changes the location of the center of mass (and thus increase the gravitational potential energy) and increases her rotational rate (which increases her kinetic energy). The straight arms pushing against the bar contributes to completing the rotation of the hips upward and behind the bar.


Human - Body tension throughout the skill is needed to be able to maintain power during this approx. 1 sec. skill. Force generated while doing the kip have been measured as high as 2.3 x body weight (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6652865 - study on mens HB). Abs, hip muscles, low back, legs are heavily involved in the work of lifting your legs at the end of the swing.

The timing of lifting your legs has a small window to be applied - too late poor transfer of momentum, too early not enough. Bent legs transfer lower energy. The timing of grip shift (in order to have the potential to push on the UB) and continue rotation is critical.

I am running out of steam and time.....I hope this contributes. SBG -

Wow, guess that trumps my "hey dummie, straighten your arms" analysis!