Parents Level progression - is this normal?

[guest301]

We have new gym in our area. Supposed to be super awesome from what ppl say. Well we are in a search off a gym for a level 1-2 team. So I gave them
A call and they said they progress gymnast not by competing season but by results. One gymnast can compete in level 5, then get her skill needed for level 6 and compete as 6 the next day, then get level 7 then be 7. Is this normal? I thought it takes a year to train and succesfully compete to move a level. No?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

no. if it's done right, you coach them and move them up when they're skill competent.

 

[sglemon]

To me that sounds a little odd. Learning a new skill, isn't a new level. There are new routines that need to be learned at each level. It doesn't take a day to learn them, it takes several months, to learn to be proficient at it, and have a decent scoring routine. Meets to be done. According to USAG, you need to score out of levels, which means you need to compete. I know in our area, competition season lasts about 6 months, not year round. I would also be interested to see the injury rate at the gym. Do some reasearch, look at scores. Some people prefer to move up quickly with 32s, while others prefer to take the time to perfect routines, and score 38s. What are you interested in?

 

[JessLW]

It depends what the gym's goals for the gymnast are. For one gymnast, the plan might be to get through compulsories as quick as possible in order to get to optionals at a young age and have a shot at elite. Maybe for another gymnast the plan is to take it a year at a time.

Some kids are naturals and pick up skills quickly and with good form. It isn't uncommon to see girls do 2, sometimes even 3 levels in a year if they're those types. That's how you end up with 10 year old L10s and 12 year old elites. It isn't really possible without doing some level skipping.

I think the gym's philosophy sounds good. They're basically saying that they take levels on a case by case basis and they're not going to hold talented kids back so that they can have a winning L4 team. As long as they're not rushing through the levels just for the sake of it or pushing kids to do skills they're not ready for, I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Seeker]

It depends what the gyms goal for the gymnast are.

Exactly this...^^^^^

If your goal is elite, there is no purpose in doing one level a year if you have the skills and can move on to the next level. I've seen it done very successfully, but it depends on the kid and the coach and how it's executed.

 

[gymgal]

In theory, it is a good plan and it works particularly well for those seeking elite or those who joined gymnastics late and can "catch-up" . It also probably works well for smaller gyms who practice in multi level groups (L1-3, 4-6,7-10). But I could see it being a real challenge if this was done for all/most gymnasts in a larger gym with separate level teams. New girls would be coming in/out of the individual teams all the time. While it might not affect coaching, it would affect team unity. I can only speak from my dd's experiences and I know she gets a boost from her teammates when she is having trouble in practice or at a meet. These friendships take time to develop and if teams are always changing, those close bonds do not have a chance to grow.

As for putting your dd on team for L1-2, it may be better to find a gym who has a developmental program for advanced little ones but does not compete. Little ones take a long time to learn and master competition routines - time that is better spent learning new skills. And the cost is ridiculous for comp leos, warm-ups, meet fees etc. Trust me, you'll question the reasoning 5 years from now... I know I did and my dd started comp at an equivalent of L3-4.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I like their statement--it sounds like they aren't one of those gyms that automatically keep girls in a level for 2 years--no matter how they do at meets. That doesn't mean all girls will move up after a few meets--some girls may need a year or two (or even three) at a level to be ready). Sounds like their focus is more on the gymnast and not on the team.

 

[Bajanswife]

In theory, it is a good plan and it works particularly well for those seeking elite or those who joined gymnastics late and can "catch-up" . It also probably works well for smaller gyms who practice in multi level groups (L1-3, 4-6,7-10).

DD's gym is like this. The girls are grouped together based on a variety of factors, not just competition level, so it is normal to have girls within the same group become ready to compete a new level at different times. The coach tries to keep girls in the same training group for a whole year at a time (or more if works out), regardless of what level they are actually competing at any given time. I like that the HC is able to focus on each girl as an individual and do what's best for her. DD's training group is about to compete level 5 for the first time this weekend, minus 1 girl who isn't quite ready. Ordinarily she'd just keep competing level 4 until she was ready for level 5, but she skipped level 4 and it didn't make sense to teach her the routines at the last minute when she was only missing one skill for L5 - it's like a backwards step. Of course she just got the kip that had been holding her back and it's now too late to enter her this weekend because it's a travel meet!

 

[wallinbl]

There are new routines that need to be learned at each level. It doesn't take a day to learn them, it takes several months, to learn to be proficient at it, and have a decent scoring routine.

Yes, but the compulsory routines 4-6 are highly similar, some skill changes mixed with minor choreography changes. If you know the 5 routines, you could do the 6 routines fairly quickly (assuming skill competence). DD (L5) picked up the L6 routines in a Saturday.

In optionals, you can keep your choreography and mix in higher level skills.

I'm simplifying a bit, but routines are not a large obstacle.

Meets to be done. According to USAG, you need to score out of levels, which means you need to compete. I know in our area, competition season lasts about 6 months, not year round.

Yes, but if you're moving on because the gymnast is advancing to get to higher level skills, you only need a 31. Our gym has seen girls do L5 in a morning session (to score out) and L6 in an afternoon session.

 

[Muddlethru]

My interpretation of the gym's mission statement is they move gymnasts up whenever they are ready. I think this is a perfectly sound mission statement. By this, kids that need to repeat a level even 3 times, will repeat it 3 times. Those that need only one year, will do so and those that can move up 3 even 4 levels in a year will be able to do so. Nothing wrong in my book. The problem lies in how they base their determination in moving kids up and if that basis is sound and backed by years of experience and expertise.

Btw, scoring out of a level is not as complicated as it seems. You can have a judge come to your gym and/or you can compete numerous levels in one meet and move up. All it takes is to get the mobility score at USAG sanctioned competition.

 

[SGMOM]

It would be great to be at a gym that had gymnasts competing and training according to their individual ability and achievement. Our gym seems unwilling or unable to do this. There's a minimum of one or sometimes two years per level. This system tends to make young, talented gymnasts either quit gymnastics or leave the gym due to boredom and frustration.

 

[NewtoGym]

Possible, but does not happen very often. It would take a very diligent coaching staff, an amazingly motivated athlete and everyone would have to be on board and working toward the goal.

 

[wallflower]

I think it sounds good because they treat them as individuals. Some girls at our gym are competing a 3rd year of level 5 while my DD will have competed 4,5,6 and 7 in only 2 seasons with high scores. Though I must admit I'm hoping for a slow down at this point. It doesn't seem to stress DD out, but I'm a different story.....

 

[iwannacoach]

Sometime I read things posted by parents that illustrate the many diverse layers found within the gymnastics industry. I've read that some gyms have a policy of one year per level, and some that require two years at particular levels. I think it's very wrong when a program defines a child's abilities and rate of progress in such a rigid manner.

I've worked with kids that can learn a pull-over in their first weeks of instruction, a hip circle a month or two later........and a glide kip with-in their first year, which would put them around level 5. These kids are not extreme examples, just healthy kids that have passed through a physically active set of years before getting to the gym. Having these average but able kids spend a year at any level below 5 just slows them down, because the earlier levels offer nothing more than a framework for kids to learn the basics of gymnastics movement and building routines.

I love the idea of moving a kid to the next level shortly after "passing" the requirements of any current level, right up to the point of level 5. If at level 5 a child shows a need to mature her skills and ability to compete, then that's her level for the year....no "second season" in the spring to groom for a more successfull fall season. I'd rather keep them in the gym and train them to move up to L6 in the fall, and most of them would do just that. The exceptions would repeat L5 because that's where their work and abilities place them, and that's how it should be determined....by a childs ability to learn, and the intangible assets they invest in their training.

 

[Quadqueen]

Sometime I read things posted by parents that illustrate the many diverse layers found within the gymnastics industry. I've read that some gyms have a policy of one year per level, and some that require two years at particular levels. I think it's very wrong when a program defines a child's abilities and rate of progress in such a rigid manner.

I've worked with kids that can learn a pull-over in their first weeks of instruction, a hip circle a month or two later........and a glide kip with-in their first year, which would put them around level 5. These kids are not extreme examples, just healthy kids that have passed through a physically active set of years before getting to the gym. Having these average but able kids spend a year at any level below 5 just slows them down, because the earlier levels offer nothing more than a framework for kids to learn the basics of gymnastics movement and building routines.

I love the idea of moving a kid to the next level shortly after "passing" the requirements of any current level, right up to the point of level 5. If at level 5 a child shows a need to mature her skills and ability to compete, then that's her level for the year....no "second season" in the spring to groom for a more successfull fall season. I'd rather keep them in the gym and train them to move up to L6 in the fall, and most of them would do just that. The exceptions would repeat L5 because that's where their work and abilities place them, and that's how it should be determined....by a childs ability to learn, and the intangible assets they invest in their training.

Just to clarify...around here, fall and spring are ONE season...it's not considered "repeating" if you are in the same level in both fall and spring...it's just a 6-month long, continuous season.

 

[iwannacoach]

I get that, and don't consider it to be a repeat of the same level. One of my faults, to some, is that I lean in the direction of gymtime, and possibly at the expense of competition time. The reasoning is mine alone, and there are some coaches who'd dissagree, and I respect their positions. It's just that the more time you spend in the gym....the more you'll have to compete with. The trick is to strike the right balance for the coach, kid, and parents so everyone feels good at the end of the year.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I lean in the direction of gymtime, and possibly at the expense of competition time. The reasoning is mine alone, and there are some coaches who'd dissagree, and I respect their positions. It's just that the more time you spend in the gym....the more you'll have to compete with. The trick is to strike the right balance for the coach, kid, and parents so everyone feels good at the end of the year.

I'm with you.

 

[LizzieLac]

I get that, and don't consider it to be a repeat of the same level. One of my faults, to some, is that I lean in the direction of gymtime, and possibly at the expense of competition time. The reasoning is mine alone, and there are some coaches who'd dissagree, and I respect their positions. It's just that the more time you spend in the gym....the more you'll have to compete with. The trick is to strike the right balance for the coach, kid, and parents so everyone feels good at the end of the year.

This is an interesting angle to the conversation. What is your feeling on what you train vs. what you compete?

 

[Natasha]

We have new gym in our area. Supposed to be super awesome from what ppl say. Well we are in a search off a gym for a level 1-2 team. So I gave them
A call and they said they progress gymnast not by competing season but by results. One gymnast can compete in level 5, then get her skill needed for level 6 and compete as 6 the next day, then get level 7 then be 7. Is this normal? I thought it takes a year to train and succesfully compete to move a level. No?

Yes it is possible to move up levels quickly, but is it normal? NO. MOST gymnasts will need a year at each level to successfully get the skills for the next level and some will need more than a year.....and most gymnasts will not make it to optionals. They told you what is possible at their gym, but unless they are only taking the most talented and promising gymnasts, then most gymnasts will not move up 3 levels in a year.
Also, keep in mind if they are a brand new gym, they will have lots of ideals of how they want things to run, but in practice it may differ as the logistics of everything gets in the way.

 

[iwannacoach]

This is an interesting angle to the conversation. What is your feeling on what you train vs. what you compete?

Competition isn't really competition, it's more an opportunity to get unbiased feedback from the judges (well supposedly) on what they've put together from their work in the gym......and to see how that aligns with other kids.

I like telling kids with "pre-state" jitters to calm down, everything that can be done has already taken place over the past few months during their gym training......and that I'm willing to accept any results that are a product of that work.

Gymnastics routines aren't like many other sports where a big rush of adrenaline is going to swoop in and save the day. With few exceptions, what kids do in meets is a reflection of what they do in the gym, and that's why I favor gym time over competition. I know I can't have it this way, but if I could get away with it, the optional kids I train would "compete" about every three weeks starting with a meet just before the winter break......but that's just in a dream world.