MAG Men's programs

[profmom]

I like the idea of a group. I'd be delighted to see more videos, but understand if people don't want to put them up here.

 

[profmom]

Don't know if this helps, but it's very common for boys to repeat L5. Also, some gyms hold boys at particular compulsory levels for a while and then skip right to L8. It's a lot more fluid than on the girls' side.

We heard, but I still do not quite believe, from one parent from a different gym last year that his son was competing L5 and L8 simultaneously. I guess that explains why the kid was totally ruling L5.

 

[2G1B]

I agree with skschlag - PM for now, maybe a private group for things that we don't want to put out to the world. But I'd say for the private group we might want to have it be all of us since there really are so few of us. ;-)

As for repeating - at "gym 2", where my DS started on team, they said that almost always the boys repeated level 4. At the gym he went to last year, they took it case by case with each kid and I honestly can't tell you how they decided who moved up and who didn't. I know that my DS was supposed to move up to level 5 this year; but honestly, he placed higher than the other boys on his team. So it would have been pretty bad if he didn't move up. Some of the other boys had good years and were also moving up; but some of them had kind of off years; but were still moving up. Some of them had OK years; but weren't moved up. I think that some of it might have had to do with behavior.

At our current gym, for the lower levels, the boys have to score two 54 AAs in order to move up. If you get that your first year, then you move up. If you don't, then you repeat.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I have 2 gymmies 1 boy 1 girl. My son started rec classes when he was 6 and was moved to team when he was 7. He competed Level 4 that spring and then competed L5 as an 8 year old. He was not even remotely ready to do L5 but his coach really pushed him to do it. He did not have any bonuses and did not even have his mushroom circles or his kip yet. Suffice to say his first L5 year was a disaster and he placed at the bottom at every meet we attended. It killed his confidence. He thought he was the worst gymnast in the world and kind of gave up trying. We moved gyms earlier in the fall this year for both kids, my son is now starting to progress but is not going to compete until he has all the bonuses for his level. He is 9 now. Hopefully by spring he can do a couple of L5 meets.

 

[gymboymom]

At our current gym, for the lower levels, the boys have to score two 54 AAs in order to move up. If you get that your first year, then you move up. If you don't, then you repeat.

Very interesting. I never heard of a boys score level for move up.

 

[LilHawkMom]

It is interesting how different the boys program is from the girls in so many areas. My son thinks the scoring for girls is very weird that they are still on the 10 scale both in the JO and college compared to boys being on the execution/start value scale. The hours is also half of what the girls do. Even at level 10 boys the average seems to be only 18-20 hrs.

In the boys programs they seem to be more open to the older/late start boy gymnast than the girls. It is common to have non prime age boys compete at all the different levels. In general, it seems programs are welcoming to boys of all abilities. The rules from USAG is can't compete till 6 yrs and can't compete level 8 until 11 yr. My son skipped level 4 and was allowed to compete level 5 his first year and was 6yrs. The next yr he did level 6 and repeated because of age, and then did level 7 and again repeated because of age. I remember he was always "thrown in" with the boys who were older than him since he was a year younger than the prime age group. You are allowed to move up one level above your age until level 8 where you have to be 11 yrs to compete. And now with the redesign level 8 is 11-12, L9 13-14, L10 15 min. age. This is the prime age groups with the min. age to compete that level. So in the optional levels you do two years.

There has been several changes to the boys program over the last couple of years. They now have a junior elite path for boys starting at level 8. So at regionals the boys will try and qualify to go junior elite by doing a routine called the technical sequence (aka the future stars routines) in addition to doing their optional routine. If they score high enough they get to go to Nationals and compete as a junior elite (JE). There is still the regular junior olympic (JO) route where boys only compete their optional routine and can qualify to nationals that way. If for some reason they don't score well enough to go JE they can go the JO route. Once at nationals the JE doesn't compete against the JO boys. Confused yet?!? It was confusing at first for me to understand it all!

 

[Dr Maleficent]

It's exciting to come across other parents of boy gymnasts! We live in France, and my ds started rec gym (1.5hrs/week) in sept 2012 at the age of 7, 3 months before his 8th birthday. After a few weeks he was asked to come twice a week, a total of 4 hours, then a few months later to come 3 times per week, total of 6 hours. He did his first competition about 5 months after he started. In France you don't compete by levels, but by age, and unfortunately for him his December birthday put him in the 9 year group at the age of 8 (he still isn't 9 and will be competing as a 10 year old in a couple of weeks!). At the time he did a handstand to controlled forward roll, pancake, round-off and backwards-roll to a handstand on floor. He did compete on the other apparatuses but I am not familiar with the technical terms for what he did, but after 5 months he was limited in what he could do. He then got asked to go into the 'sport-study' program here, which is where gymnasts go to a school with which the gym has an arrangement where the coach collects the gymnasts from school early and they train for 3 hours 4 days a week, and then 2 hours on the 5th school day. As far as I can tell the girls train about the same amount of time as the boys, and training is dictated by age rather then level (for the children in the sport-study progam).
The competing by age thing is really hard - it is a bit like international competitions, in that you can enter with any skills, then there is a maximum score for a particular skill, so the harder the routine the more potential points you have. So he has a double disadvantage, being significantly younger and with less advanced skills. I am just hoping that he will be able to understand why he will not place in competitions for some time to come, and have the patience to keep working away at the skills in spite of this. If he does, it will be a great life lesson that will have benefits outside gymnastics too.

 

[Outlast]

LilHawkMom, so are the future stars routines the same as the JE routines?

All this info has been quite helpful.

So at what age do the best Junior Elite Men start to compete in internationally? After they turn 16? It must be later than the girls.

 

[skschlag]

They can compete as Jrs at 15. There are 2 Jr division, 15/16, and 17/18 (just like level 10). THey are officially seniors after 18, although some 18 yo compete as srs. At P&G they also invited the top jrs to compete with the srs the next day. That is just nationally, not internationally. I think most of the men are 18 before they are competing internationally.

 

[Outlast]

Interesting. So quite a bit later! So it's no wonder why the men's side seems to feel less pressure packed for little guys.

 

[skschlag]

Right? And I don't even think that there are truly "prime ages". I know that USAG has age groups that go to nationals, but in reality, there is no "prime age" for the boys. There is really no in or out of age. I have talked to several people in USAG about this after having some people tell me that my son was "out of age" and "too old" to be competing level 7. All say that for the boys, the only age that matters is when they can compete internationally. Before puberty and strength development, it just doesn't matter. Made me feel sooo much better!! (and my son isn't that old, but the changes came in the middle of hte plan for him, kind of messing things up a little bit)

 

[Outlast]

That must have been encouraging for your son to hear. Sad that people think he's too old though.

 

[skschlag]

Yeah. He was quite down for a while because one mom said it to his face. he is an 11 yo level 7. Nothing too old about that at all.

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

@skschlag I think I saw videos of your son from last season and I would say he is amazing and right on track!

 

[gracyomalley]

I just have to laugh - an 11 year old level 7 too old!!! Here in our state there are VERY few level 7s under 12....and in general, although there are tons of 6-8 year old level 4s, they almost all "peel off" to other sports long before level 7. Our team has a 13 year old level 9 - and he's been a consistent placer at nationals and future stars all along, no competition for him in the state and really none in the region. At a recent meet a male college gymnast spoke to the boys about how he started gym at age 13....ever hear of a girl starting at 13 and doing college gym???

Its the norm for boys to do 2 years at each level, and not unheard of to do 3 (with the bonus system routines can still change and skills be gained - and with 6 events there are many boys who are several levels ahead in certain areas but struggle enough in others to need to stay back, not just to "win" but even for safety reasons....). Puberty makes a huge difference for boys because the gain in muscle mass is faster and more significant that with girls - and boys gym is more strength based (DS13 is now finally stronger than DD11 - he started gym late (10) and is still a level 5, she stared early (competed old 5 at 8) and is a second year level 7...and now he's the one getting new skills each week for the first time ever...)
There is a 14 year old on the team, also a late starter, who will probably do L7 this year then may skip levels....he's getting crazy strong as he matures and works really hard...

All this to say, is it seems to me that the boys program allows for the goofy things to spend 3 years learning to have straight legs and pointed toes for Level5, then when they mature enough physically and mentally to focus (big for boys) they can really speed up their progress and still feel successful as gymnasts....harder for girls to do so....although I applaud every "older" teen who gets out there and gives her all in compulsories!!!

 

[LilHawkMom]

I only mention the prime age because of future stars and how it relates to going to JO nationals but I definitely feel it is not as important for boys to be the prime age to be successful. We have 2 boys who will be level 8 (first yr that level) and they are age 13 and sadly can't go to JO nationals and one is an excellent vaulter, always winning it at meets and both show good talent but not the "right" age. And we have a several great boys that look great and would do wonderful at age 10 future stars (in my parent opinion) but are 11 and would have to do future stars age 11 instead.

 

[profmom]

It is crazy how the level progressions can work for the guys. DS acquired a new teammate from another part of the country a few years ago. He arrived at the gym in the late spring/early summer and told the program director that he had been headed for his second year at L5. The program director took one look at him and growled, "You're shaving! You're a level 8!" and proceeded to get him there. After a season of L8 in which he was constantly improving, he's slated to compete . . . gulp . . . L10 this year so he will have the chance to qualify for JO Nationals. It helps that he is apparently utterly without fear and will try anything.

 

[emorymom]

I think because of economics of coaching, fewer men can career coach. Fewer men can devote decades to coaching boys.

I think this is a primary reason in my area that some teams look "sloppy" compared to their girl's teams.

If you put my son's L5 team against the girls' L4 team I don't think you'd think, boy those boys aren't maintaining form. If they don't, they are doing push-ups or holding their arms over their heads.

The girls do probably go more hours at a comparable level, but our boys' group is smaller.

 

[LilHawkMom]

LilHawkMom, so are the future stars routines the same as the JE routines?
.

The future stars routines for ages 11-13yr are the same as the JE technical sequence for ages 11-13yrs. Boys 14 yrs and up do harder technical sequence routines. There is no future stars for boys 14yr and older. In future stars boys do the 6 regular apparatus and a strength routine, flexibility, and trampoline routine. In the technical sequence they only do the 6 regular apparatus.

 

[Outlast]

Ah, thanks for enlightening me.

Seriously everyone's responses have been helpful.