"moving up" question

[zoemurr]

If a child moves up in the middle of competitive season (does a few meets a L4 and a few at L5) are they allowed to compete at states at the lower level? Or once you move up do you have to stay there?

Thanks!

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

I'm pretty sure that once they compete at the next level, that is their level for the rest of the season- on the USAG website there is some information about dropping back a level, but it's very formal and I don't think that's a good idea here. Hopefully s/he would qualify to states at the higher level, though.

 

[momocay]

I think if he/she moves to level 5 and qualifies for sectionals, they are no longer able to move back. I would check your state website. They may have different rules.

 

[gymnastgets10]

I think as long as s/he hasn't compete in states for the higher level yet s/he can go back and compete states for the lower level. I'm pretty sure one of my teammates did this in level 4/5. (But I wasn't at my current gym then, so I could be wrong, but I think she told me that.)

 

[cathiann]

I would ask the coach about that--they should know your state's rules on it. I know in MN for Optionals you have until a certain date to drop back to the old level, but don't know how it works for Compulsories.

 

[cher062]

That was my DD from L4 - L5. I was told that once she competed at a Sectional she could not move down if she competed as a L5. She did do some qualifiers as L4 then L5 then L4 again because she was already registered as those levels and they couldn't be changed before she went to Sectionals as a L5.

It could be different from state to state. Check with your coaches they should have that answer for you

 

[Deleted member D3987]

ask your daughter's coaches. the rules can vary from state to state.

 

[zoemurr]

Thanks

I'm in NY.

It's not for my DS.. it's about another local team. I don't want to get into specifics 'cause I don't know who reads here and the whole thing makes me very angry.. but anyway..

We know of a child that repeated L4 and did some L4 meets this year. Then he did some L5 meets. It was mentioned that (someone thought) he was going to do L4 states again. I was just wondering if it's possible. Sounds like as long as he hasn't done regionals that it might happen.

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

there are no rules prohibiting 'sandbagging'...

 

[cher062]

I'm in NY.

It's not for my DS.. it's about another local team. I don't want to get into specifics 'cause I don't know who reads here and the whole thing makes me very angry.. but anyway..

We know of a child that repeated L4 and did some L4 meets this year. Then he did some L5 meets. It was mentioned that (someone thought) he was going to do L4 states again. I was just wondering if it's possible. Sounds like as long as he hasn't done regionals that it might happen.

Thanks!

Yes it is possible. In my state so long as he hasn't gone to a sectional at the upper level. You have to check what the rules are in your state and the ones that would know that the best is your coaches.

 

[KKMOMMY]

m belief is once you compete at a different level, you should continue competing in that level. but i often see girls compete with my daughter as a level 5, and not come in first place, and at sectionals they compete as a level 4, so at states they compete as a level 4 imho, i thinks that is wrong.. especially if they would of qualified for sectionals on a differnet level.. some gyms just want the wins,, glad i am not at one of them.. i just want my daughter to be challenged, and love learning her new skills.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

like i said...there are no rules that prohibit "sandbagging". quite unfortunate.

 

[JBS]

If a child moves up in the middle of competitive season (does a few meets a L4 and a few at L5) are they allowed to compete at states at the lower level? Or once you move up do you have to stay there?

Thanks!

In our state, we have a "drop back" date. They must drop back by that date.

From our state handbook:

Drop-Backs/Move-Ups
Gymnasts are permitted to drop back to their previous level if after qualifying for
and competing at the higher level, they wish to go back to their previous level.
The deadline to make that decision is:
Deadline for Drop Backs
October 1 Compulsory Gymnasts
3 weeks before State Meet Optional Gymnasts
Any movement between levels must be documented and reported to the
Competition Chairperson (Gymnast Mobility Form found in the appendix of this
handbook may be used.) This includes move-ups and drop-backs.

In Wisconsin, here is the kicker:

Fall 2010 season - gymnast competes L5
Spring 2011 season - gymnast competes L6 and achieves mobility score to move to L7
Fall 2011 season - gymnasts competes L5 again and "puts the hammer down" on all competition
Spring 2012 season - gymnast competes L7

Basically....L5, L5, L7...how fair is it for a L5 to be able to compete giant, giant, layout one week later? Good question huh?

 

[JBS]

From Judge Judy at JustGymnastics.com:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2)"Is It Fair?" - by Judy Schalk - Brevet Judge
(Repeat L-5 and Move to L-7)

===========================================================
Repeating Level 5 has been a hot issue with so many for so long that it warrants
special consideration. In my August issue I quoted the newly published statement
from USAG on their philosophy of fair play in the matter of "mobility," i.e.,
when to move up to the next level. It states that once a high level of proficiency
is achieved at a level, the gymnast should move to the next level when she can
do so safely.

USAG, not wanting to force gymnasts out of a program because, for whatever
reason, they can't make the commitment to go to the next level, no longer has
mandatory "move up" scores. Therefore, clubs have developed their own program
strategies for mobility. The following scenario submitted by a reader lends to an
explanation of the current mobility regulations.

Q.) I would like to know the rules for competing a level and then moving down
to compete another level, or skipping a level altogether. My colleagues and I,
as well as several other coaches from other gyms have noticed that a particular
gym in our area will compete their girls as Level 5's, skip level 6, and then compete
Level 7. Or, they will compete Level 5, then compete one meet as a Level 6 and
then compete Level 5 again for the remainder of the season, then move immediately
to Level 7 after the Level 5 season is complete again. We have had several
complaints about this from parents that not only go to our gym and compete against
these kids, but also the parents of the kids who attend the other gym that skips
and repeats levels. As a newer coach, I am not sure what to tell these parents. I
assume that moving down a level after competing a higher level (I.e. Level 6 back
to Level 5) is against the rules.

Also, this team was Level 5 Team State Champions last year. About 5 of the girls on
that Level 5 State Team were competing Level 7 no later than 2 months after. This,
without competing a Level 6 meet first, this information was confirmed by a parent
whose gymnast was part of that squad of girls who went directly from Level 5 to Level 7.

Please clarify with me if this is indeed against the rules, and if so, what disciplinary
actions can be taken? I assume that this is definitely against the spirit of the JO
program since it is holding girls back from progressing, or progressing incorrectly.

A.) Some clubs choose to only compete one meet at Level 6 just to get a mobility
score and move directly to Level 7. They may prefer to spend their time more productively
working L-7 skills while just competing L-5 meets to remain competition-sharp. According
to the rules, this strategy is allowable.

With the exception of skipping Level 6 entirely, never getting a mobility score, the rest
of what you described is legal. Here are the Mobility and Dropping Back rules that apply.
- Athletes may not skip any level. They must advance one level at a time by scoring the
minimum mobility score at any USA Gymnastics sanctioned competition.
(Rules & Policies, p. 19, II., A., 3.)
- Once a gymnast has competed in a Sectional meet, she may NOT drop back to a lower
level in the same competitive season.
--- If no Sectional meet is held, the State Administrative Committee must determine prior
to the beginning of the competitive year, a designated "declaration" date for each level
for such purpose. (Rules & Policies, p. 21, C., 1.)

This means that a L-5 may compete in a L-6 meet before Sectionals (or the designated
"drop back" date), then finish the season as a L-5. Having already received her L-6 mobility
score in that one L-6 meet, she may move to L-7 as soon as she leaves L-5.

Are you sure there was NO L-6 meet in the past where some of these athletes may have
acquired their mobility score to move to L-7. I would assume that a coach who uses this
strategy would understand this requirement. You must contact your USAG State Chairperson
with this concern if further action is to be taken.

Considering the ramifications you described, I assume that's what led USAG to come out
with a statement on their philosophy of mobility. The issue of "good sportsmanship and
fairness to all athletes" may be in jeopardy. I don't believe that simply professing a
philosophy is enough to deal with real issues when regulations clearly permit the strategy.

Judge Judy
=========================================================== [/FONT]

 

[3rd_time_around]

I believe the rule is once they compete at a state meet at a certain level, they can only drop back with a formal petition. Also it says that they can only do one state meet in a competitive season, and in our state they compete state from high to low (ex: level 6 middle of Nov, level 5 end of Nov, level 4 beginning of Dec). I always wondered why the lower levels didn't compete earlier, then I realized that its probably a way to make sure that someone doesn't slip through the system and compete in more than one, say level 4 then level 5. i recall a certain gym doing what you are describing in our state. It made me so mad.....

 

[zoemurr]

Thanks everyone. I really want to vent and give specifics, but I shouldn't. It's just unfortunate that many adults don't find it important to play fair.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

JBS - It's funny because almost every gym in my state does what the letter writer was complaining about in that article. It doesn't feel against the rules or the spirit of competition to me because it's just accepted.

Few gyms in my area compete L6. So it's very common for a girl to do two years of L5, but get most of her L7 skills during the second year. They try to have the girls rotate who is going to actually compete L6 to get a mobility score so that the team can still place for L5.

So, really to solve the issue, we need to look at why so many gyms just want to skip L6.

 

[JBS]

So, really to solve the issue, we need to look at why so many gyms just want to skip L6.

1. Giants are easier than freehips and counterswings.

2. L7 is the third level of the FHS vault.

3. If you have 15 L5's and 10 L6's all combined into one L5 team...you're going to do well at L5 team. It's comical to watch some clubs follow this path and still be terrible at L5 and L7.

4. It's easier to train kids bigger skills when they are confident. If a gymnast is anywhere near L7, they will be totally confident with L5 (kip, RO-BHS, cartwheel on beam)

That's just a few I could think of...I'm sure the other coaches have more.

Now some drawbacks...

1. The gymnast that is going to top out at L6 is now going to top out at L5 just because they're not a L7 according to a certain clubs L7 standards.

2. Less team scores. Our gymnasts take great pride in earning a team score. If you compete L6, there are twice the number of score for your club to earn.