Parents Multiple repeat level 3s who train 16 hours per week

[ChalkFullOfLove]

I just learned that there’s a training group of 8 gymnasts who all repeated Level 3 at our gym a year ago. They train 16 hours per week which is on the high end for level 3s, so I was surprised that so many had to repeat. I can’t help but wonder if this points to a larger issue with the coaching or the development program.

My daughter is not part of that group. She just completed her first competitive season as a Level 3. A couple of months ago, her coaches mentioned that they anticipate holding a bunch of her group back for next season. My daughter and her group also train 16 hours per week. I’m okay with her repeating Level 3 if she genuinely needs more time, but I want to make sure it's not due to weak coaching. She puts a lot of time and effort into gymnastics, and I want to be sure she’s in the best environment to grow and feel successful.

Also, my understanding is that upward mobility at this gym is based on skillset not on AA scores.

Has anyone experienced something similar at their gym? Would this situation raise any red flags for you?

 

[Coach Kate]

How are they scoring? That seems like a lot of hours for level 3. With that many hours, I would expect a lot of up training.

Having that many girls need to repeat level 3 is definitely raising my eyebrows. The kip is the big difference for level 4 and if you can't learn a kip in a year of 16 hours a week, I do think there could be a coaching issue.

 

[ORgymmom]

Sounds like our old gym.

When I encountered this years ago, it took me a long time to understand and only in hindsight and after a gym change. Now that we have spent time elsewhere and I’ve watched other cohorts come through the ranks, I understand it more.

In our case the gym was excellent at polishing optionals from elsewhere and identifying future elites, but inexperienced with creating compulsory athletes from scratch, especially teaching basic 3 and 4 skills. There were just enough extremely talented girls who broke through that they never had to question their own coaching experience and instead blamed athletes and parents for repeats. From mymeetscores, I can see that the only girls who made it to level 6 who we know from those years tested out of 4 and 5. Everyone else got stuck in 4 or 5 in spite of high scores and left the sport. Our new gym can get any warm body through level 6/7 if they’re willing to put in the work.

There was also a shortage of coaches and crowding issue so some girls would be held at level 3 or 4 due to space constraints but told it was because they didn’t meet the gym’s for the next level. Some years those requirements would change at the last minute (also in hindsight due to space constraints or accepting new girls at the next level)- so to train 5 you needed to have level 6 or 7 skills. This created a crunch for girls trying to move to 4. I also realized when we switched gyms how badly rotations and practice schedules were managed. There was a lot of standing around and often not enough coaches to go around.

When some people did speak up and ask questions, the girls who were scoring 38s were held up as proof that everything was fine. Those girls could have scored 38s trained by my dog in our backyard!

I would be wary of staying in a program like that, and I say that as a parent of an athlete who was at a gym that did 16 hours for level 3 and still had repeats and some big skill gaps. It might be fine for the top 2-3 athletes in the group but you’ll see a ton of attrition from the rest of the group over the next couple of years.

 

[Lobster]

I think it depends what repeating a year of level 3 looks like at your gym. Is the second year spent mostly working upgrades because the intention is to then do level 4 while being ready to score out of 5 and hop to level 6 that same season?

I see some gyms around here using that formula. 1st year level 3, 2nd year level 3, 3rd year level 4 in the fall, score out of 5 and then be level 6 in January.

I’ve also experienced gyms moving through the compulsory levels at a snails pace because there is not space/coaching in the levels above. The gym doesn’t and can’t take kids into the higher optional levels so the longer they keep clients in compulsory levels, the longer they keep you as a client. Most kids won’t make it to upper optionals anyway, so this works for the gym. Eventually from going to meets you will figure out they can’t offer the upper levels and move on if your child is headed that direction.

 

[ChalkFullOfLove]

How are they scoring? That seems like a lot of hours for level 3. With that many hours, I would expect a lot of up training.

Having that many girls need to repeat level 3 is definitely raising my eyebrows. The kip is the big difference for level 4 and if you can't learn a kip in a year of 16 hours a week, I do think there could be a coaching issue.

Thanks for your response! I thought there'd be more up training as well with that many hours. On average, they score in the 35 - 36 range. A few still don't have their kip. After nearly a year on the team, my daughter only got her kip recently and it's not yet consistent.

 

[GymDadWA]

Might be as simple as until you have certain skills like Kip, BHS BHS, Cartwheel on Beam, etc. you can't move up. Then the question is if those are the restrictions why aren't the gymnast able to develop those skills training that much.

 

[Gymgirl84]

I think for such high hours, there might some issue if many are still not scoring pretty high and not getting some of the upper level skills.
I'm in EU but my team is close in level to 3-4-gold and this year all of them got their kip with 9 hours a week. Some got it pretty early on and have been competing it this year, some have got it recently and it's still in the clean up process but they'll be competing it next season.

 

[Coach Kate]

Thanks for your response! I thought there'd be more up training as well with that many hours. On average, they score in the 35 - 36 range. A few still don't have their kip. After nearly a year on the team, my daughter only got her kip recently and it's not yet consistent.

Yeah I'd honestly be expecting either 38s or that they'd have their level 4 or even 5/6 skills with that many hours. Level 3 is just really basic so if you have that many hours a week, it should be enough to either be scoring 9.5+ (hyper attention to detail, including routine text, but also immaculate form on basics) or a ton of uptraining.

If I were you, I would look into some other programs in your area. Your daughter may still repeat level 3, but I think you're probably wasting a lot of time in your/her life. It's really good in the lower levels especially to maybe do another sport or activity - swimming and dance are great compliments to gymnastics, but really it could be anything. It's just too many hours and it seems like they're either very inefficient or ineffective, or some combinations.