Parents Newbie with 5yo - What Can I Expect?

[John]

I've thought a lot about the poor communication piece and have concluded that what makes a good coach and good gym owner are not necessarily the same skills that make strong business managers or communicators. I often find myself saying, "If only they offered a brief explanation for this sudden change...if only they planned to get this information to parents more than a few days in advance...etc." If I wanted a job at DD's gym and was willing to go without much pay I'd love to work as a communications manager for the team- it seems to be something many gyms could benefit from, but most likely can't afford given the other staffing needs.

Shouldn't the president of the pto be the go between?

 

[gymbeam]

Shouldn't the president of the pto be the go between?

PTO say Whaaa?

 

[FutureGirls]

In this sport it is very hard to plan ahead. Girls can get skills very quickly and be moved from preschool classes to pre-team and team fast. But for many kids it takes seasons to move from one level to the next. Right now for most gyms, it is the beginning of the new season and teams and routines have been kinda set. Now, with your daughter being in the beginnings of pre-team I would ask some of the other moms with kids in her group, her coaches or the front desk what the standard time line is of how girls move from one level to the next. They may keep her in the pre-pre-pre team until
Th spring and then move her to the next group . But like others have said it's gym dependent and gymnast dependent every youn person on CB has had a different journey. No one can give you a very straightforward answer.

Now, I too have a 5 year old and I know that maturity and being able to listen, follow directions etc are definitely part of the decision process when girls/boys move up in groups. You can have an outstanding young person but if they aren't ready for tons of reasons they won't move them. Its ok to have to mature!! So... you will have to let go of some things. Try and befriend some moms around you and start to ask questions. The parents will be your best teachers!!

 

[RTT2]

PTO say Whaaa?

Yeah, not sure our PTO chair will get too involved with the gym since none of her kids do gymnastics.

 

[John]

Yeah, not sure our PTO chair will get too involved with the gym since none of her kids do gymnastics.

Ours has a close relationship to owner / head coach. This may be due to her oldest DD being an exceptional gymnast. Actually going to the Olympics for her home country. She has dual citizenship.

Her daughters are off in college but she continues on and does a great job. Loves the team girls like her own.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Ours has a close relationship to owner / head coach. This may be due to her oldest DD being an exceptional gymnast. Actually going to the Olympics for her home country. She has dual citizenship.

Her daughters are off in college but she continues on and does a great job. Loves the team girls like her own.

I wonder if I'm having a misunderstanding of what you're saying. To me, PTO means parent teacher organization, and it is something that exists in schools. Do you mean something different by the acronym? If you do not, your DDs school PTO leader liaises with the gym team?

 

[Eleven sol]

From my very limited experience I think why it can seem secretive could be that gymnastics is a tough sport and they don't really know how children will progress once they move past the basics. Some become really fearful; others hate the intense conditioning eventually required; others just keep plugging along and get further than you would initially expect. So gyms don't want to outline a particular track for you and then have to go back on it because your child doesn't develop the way they expected. You can have strong potential and not have it realized for many reasons or you can have average potential and realize it fully due to grit. Tough to pinpoint that in a five year old. They give you your child's current level and when they reach the next level, that information. That way they are honest but don't create false hopes inadvertently. Just my guess.

 

[RockyMtnAmy]

I really appreciate all your thoughts and input. I'm learning a few things about myself along the way.

-- My athletic experience as a child was mostly team-oriented. I did softball (as you may have guessed), volleyball, and swimming (which is sort of individual but still mostly team-ish). I think that may be coloring my expectations here. This is a different thing, I think, as you say.

-- Yeah, I think I'm coming at this as a business owner myself, thinking, "wow, the client experience would be so much better if..." But I love that perspective from @RTT that what makes a good gym owner/head coach may not be the same thing that makes a good business owner. That makes sense to me. Still frustrating, but understandable.

-- There's only one other little girl in DD's group at the moment, and the mom doesn't seem to have a ton of experience either. I have chatted with her a bit and she seems about as clueless as me. The class right above ours (pre-pre-team) meets on different days of the week from us. I can think of one parent I've met though that I might ask... I think her DD is on preteam.

-- I have found the coaches to be relatively unapproachable. My husband had another incident the other week where he arrived with DD 10 minutes early for practice. The regular coach did not show up at the start time. A person in the office said she was running late and would be there soon. DH and DD waited in the usual pre-class waiting area. At 12 minutes past the hour, someone (unclear who) pointed out that DD's group was working out with the preteam group that day in the usual coach's absence, and they were already back on the floor. So my DD lost basically 25% of her 1 hour class, which frustrated DH because he's like "We paid for those 12 minutes!" And it felt like we were the ones who should have somehow known that she was supposed to go with the other class even though DD and DH were standing there and no announcement was made. Just another example of the weird miscommunication that has occasionally happened. I asked about it and the coach and the staff gave a simple, "Sorry," with no further explanation or suggestion for how this type of thing could be avoided in the future.

So all that said, I think I might take your suggestions to try and talk to her current coach again now that we are a little more settled into the routine and the idea of this pre-team stuff. At the beginning I asked "What do I need to know that I don't know?" and they didn't seem to be able to answer that. But I think I have more specific questions now, and that should help.

 

[GYM0M]

My DD's is crazy busy right now bc of fall registration and rec classes starting up again. I'm sorry that she was overlooked, but those things happen, & in the grand scheme, that's honestly, a little thing. If your DD continues, there will be LOTS of other things to get upset about. I will add, though, that this sport is also about discipline, esp for competitive gymnasts. It's about being where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there. At our gym, the coach will not come looking for you, not even the little ones. To prevent this from happening again, ask the coach where your DD should be waiting for class to begin as it may be different from the rec area. Team and preteam girls, at our gym, know to meet on the floor, rec classes meet in the waiting room for their coach to come get the class.

 

[SuperMama]

My daughter is still young but we've been to a few different gyms because of family moves so here is what helped me feel more comfortable.

1) check the gym website, many are starting to add information on levels, practice times or number of hours (including for team levels). Reviewing that helped me get an understanding of the forward looking commitment that might be needed if my DD continued to progress.

2) Review a team handbook if possible. At some gyms pre-team is considered a team commitment and so they allow you to have the team handbook with a view into fees and other commitments as well as progress standards and behavior expectations. Some (but not many) have it on their website. If your gym requires you wait until being invited to team for that level of information then I would say know that when the time comes it should give you enough information to decide if you want to make that commitment.

3) Read up on the levels/paths so you know the language (JO, Xcel, Tops etc) so that as you get information about you DD you can understand what it means in the context of the gym world.

4) generally speaking the gyms I have experienced try to move masses at 1 level per year but then have exceptions if your child is either showing accelerated talent, is older/started the sport later, or is struggling with key milestones or requirements. Those exceptions would cause the gymnast to either move forward faster or repeat a level.

 

[Mish]

I also don't understand why asking for this general process information is equated to being obsessed with your child's achievements in the sport, as opposed to just making everyone feel more comfortable with where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing.

I love your whole post. I particularly love this part of it. When you find the answer to this, let me know!

 

[wallflower]

Ours has a close relationship to owner / head coach. This may be due to her oldest DD being an exceptional gymnast. Actually going to the Olympics for her home country. She has dual citizenship.

Her daughters are off in college but she continues on and does a great job. Loves the team girls like her own.

No countries have actually qualified to the Olympics yet so sounds like they are stretching the truth.

 

[gymmom11]

I get what y'all are saying about "letting it be fun," I really do. But I don't think that letting her have fun/releasing expectations and understanding the general process are mutually exclusive.

If I wanted to put her in baseball/softball, I'd probably get some handbook explaining that they are in tee-ball until they are in 1st grade, at which point they start slow-pitch. Fast pitch generally starts around 6th grade, and there's no all-star team until they are at least 8. None of that information precludes my daughter from having fun, and it doesn't mean I'm unreasonably focused on her making the all star team. It just gives us all context for how the sport works for young kids.

I don't really get why this sport is so secretive, like an exclusive club. Why is it on me as the parent to ask the coaches/gym management or even other parents about how it works when I really don't know what I don't know? Would it be so hard to put some of this stuff down into a "Welcome to our Gym!" packet that just explains the basic idea of progression and gym policies? I know there's a team handbook (which is, of course, secret), but she's not on the team, so I can't have access to it.

Case in point: the first day she ever went there (preschool rec class), they left the little kids' area and went to play in the foam pit at the end of the session. I followed them back deep into the gym. The coach turned around, clearly frustrated with me and said, "We don't allow parents back here." There are CCTV monitors for watching the more remote areas of the gym in a room, with no sound. First of all - no one told me where parents were and were not allowed to be, so how was I supposed to know that? Second, I was trying to get a handle on what a gymnastics class was like for my 4 year old - this was a trial class to see if we wanted to come again and, you know, pay them. How was I supposed to do that if I couldn't see very well and couldn't hear anything at all?

Interactions like this have happened on and off throughout our time there. I have even asked them "What do I need to know?" when I'm not sure what direct questions to ask and I don't get straight answers.

After reading CB here, it seems like this is not restricted to our gym, this seems to be the way its done across the board in gymnastics. I don't get why a parent has to fish for information or learn the hard way by committing some huge gym parent faux pas (potentially jeopardizing your own child's experience for some reason) when simple instructions presented up front would have prevented it. I also don't understand why asking for this general process information is equated to being obsessed with your child's achievements in the sport, as opposed to just making everyone feel more comfortable with where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing.

I'm, generally speaking, a rule follower. I like to know what's expected of me so I can do the right thing. I wish that "just drive her to practice and pay the fees" was sufficient description of what I'm supposed to be doing, but it doesn't seem to be. There's an unwritten set of rules here that I'm having a hard time figuring out and makes me feel like a total dolt.

Any thoughts on why the culture is like that?

I don't necessarily think it is secretive.. gyms are overwhelmed with children and families, to have an individual tour of the facility during operating hours would be impossible. Could they have told you where to wait? Sure. Maybe the coach assumed the front desk had let you know that. I don't know how that translates to the team being a secret process.

Every child is different in gymnastics. Every path will be different. Nobody can tell you how long she will be pre-pre-preteam because they do not know at this point. It is not a structured "every child moves up 1 level every year." While generally speaking in the younger levels, yes *most* girls will move 1 level each year. However, many will skip levels. Even in the preteam levels. Some will move up in the middle of the season. Some repeat, even on preteam levels. There simply cannot be a textbook for moving through the sport because no two children are the same! Once your daughter moves into JO there are minimum score and skill requirements to advance set by USAG. However, gyms have their own requirements too. For example, USAG mobility to move from L4 to L5 was acquiring an AA score if 31. However, my gym as well as many others have stricter requirements than that. Our gym requires a 36 AA as well as having most of the skills needed for L5. It really is a case by case basis as to how long each gymnast will be on a certain level, or how long it will take them to go to L10 or Elite.

Speak with other parents with children in higher JO levels and ask their experience. While is may not be the same yours will be, it could give an indication of the gyms policies for progression.

 

[RockyMtnAmy]

I will add, though, that this sport is also about discipline, esp for competitive gymnasts. It's about being where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there. At our gym, the coach will not come looking for you, not even the little ones. To prevent this from happening again, ask the coach where your DD should be waiting for class to begin as it may be different from the rec area. Team and preteam girls, at our gym, know to meet on the floor, rec classes meet in the waiting room for their coach to come get the class.

You have exactly proven my point. We were doing exactly what we were supposed to be doing, as had been communicated to us from the beginning. My DH and I are smart, observant people who want to do the right thing. But we aren't telepathic. If there was a different process, on one particular day, that could have been communicated. I communicate DDs absences to the coaching staff. Why can't they communicate with me?

The fact that the gym and you in this response seem to think that we should have just been able to intuit the right thing to do is illustrative of the cultural problem I'm talking about.

My daughter has been reprimanded for taking off across the gym floor by herself before (which ended in a meltdown. At which point the coach threatened to pull her out of the class on the first day. Again, before DD knew how it was supposed to go and what was expected of her). Why would I assume the right thing to do is to send her back wandering around looking for a class and a coach with whom she is totally unfamiliar? That makes no sense.

 

[RockyMtnAmy]

I don't necessarily think it is secretive.. gyms are overwhelmed with children and families, to have an individual tour of the facility during operating hours would be impossible. Could they have told you where to wait? Sure. Maybe the coach assumed the front desk had let you know that. I don't know how that translates to the team being a secret process.

I never asked for a private tour of the gym during operating hours. I asked for a piece of paper or perhaps a webpage (they have a pretty good one - it would be easy to add) that says, "here is generally how thing work when you are in a competitive track. Herepick ups and drop offs work. Here is how absences are handled. Here's how we feel about parents watching. We have rec shows twice a year, usually in April and November. If you have a question here's who you can call or email."

Every child is different in gymnastics. Every path will be different. Nobody can tell you how long she will be pre-pre-preteam because they do not know at this point. It is not a structured "every child moves up 1 level every year." While generally speaking in the younger levels, yes *most* girls will move 1 level each year. However, many will skip levels. Even in the preteam levels. Some will move up in the middle of the season. Some repeat, even on preteam levels.

You just said "most" girls. So why say that? A handbook doesn't have to be prescriptive. Why can't they say "This is how things happen most of the time"? There could be disclaimers all over it that every child is different and that the coaching staff reserves the right to place your child where it most makes sense. But even that is never communicated!

I find it at the least extremely odd that a new parent is expected to learn gym policy information from other parents.

 

[FutureGirls]

Another perspective, but you mentioned this is a very well known gym with lots of talent. But, maybe it's not the right place for your child and family. We too were at a very well known place and have switched and it's magically different. It's one thing to not communicate things, but yelling and pulling a child off the floor for not knowing or remembering rules isn't ok too. (I get there is safety, but she hs to know the rules to follow them) She's 5 . Coaches need to remember and know this closely. You have to have your Child in a place that's safe for her.

 

[John]

No countries have actually qualified to the Olympics yet so sounds like they are stretching the truth.

2016 Rio.

 

[John]

Another perspective, but you mentioned this is a very well known gym with lots of talent. But, maybe it's not the right place for your child and family. We too were at a very well known place and have switched and it's magically different. It's one thing to not communicate things, but yelling and pulling a child off the floor for not knowing or remembering rules isn't ok too. (I get there is safety, but she hs to know the rules to follow them) She's 5 . Coaches need to remember and know this closely. You have to have your Child in a place that's safe for her.

I was going to suggest the samething. Find a gym you and your DD like. If she falls for the sport you will be spending much time with the gym and it's coaches. Find a gym that meets your needs and expectations, a gym that aprreciates and beleives in your DD. Do what's best for your family.

Also ignore the passive aggressive and jealous behavior at gyms and this site.

 

[notthatmom]

Another perspective, but you mentioned this is a very well known gym with lots of talent. But, maybe it's not the right place for your child and family. We too were at a very well known place and have switched and it's magically different. It's one thing to not communicate things, but yelling and pulling a child off the floor for not knowing or remembering rules isn't ok too. (I get there is safety, but she hs to know the rules to follow them) She's 5 . Coaches need to remember and know this closely. You have to have your Child in a place that's safe for her.

Are you and I the same person? Lol! This is so EXACTLY my experience. Went from a well known elite gym, to a place where my daughter has flourished and gets 20 times as much attention and coaching as she did before. Communication at the new gym is beyond what I could have ever expected. They say hi to me every day (I don't even think DD's old coaches knew my first name) they occasionally come and sit next to me at pick up time and talk about her progress, share her praises with me, etc.
At the old gym they basically said "no news is good news, if we need to talk with you, we will...don't ask us questions about your gymnast"
(Which is why luckily for me, I had a friend at the gym who had a child on team before DD joined and she was able to give me the training and pricing info...which was NOT something I could have easily gotten from the gym, even when she was on pre-team)

 

[wallflower]

2016 Rio.

Your post said "going to the Olympics" which would be the future and would be impossible to know at this point.

If she went to Rio that would make sense.