WAG No Foam Pit

[CrazyTrain]

My dd is 10 training Hopes and Lvl 9. Her coach just moved gyms and the new location does not have a foam pit.

The question is, are airbags and/or resi pits a safe alternative to the traditional foam pit when learning new lvl 9 and 10 skills?

 

[ReluctantGymMom]

I don’t have a good answer for you but my daughters level 7 friend tried out a gym with airbags, she said when she dismounted onto them it felt like it recoiled into her if that makes sense? Like she didn’t sink into it like a foam pit, and it hurt her back to land on

 

[JBS]

My dd is 10 training Hopes and Lvl 9. Her coach just moved gyms and the new location does not have a foam pit.

The question is, are airbags and/or resi pits a safe alternative to the traditional foam pit when learning new lvl 9 and 10 skills?

This is a tough question as much of it depends on the coaches training style as well. Here are a few questions…

1. Do they have an in ground resi pit / airbag landing for vault?
2. Do they have an in ground resi / airbag for bar releases and dismounts?
3. Do they have string bed / web bed competition style trampoline?
4. How about an overhead spotting rig over the trampoline?
5. Do they have a spring floor to in ground resi pit / air bag?
6. How about an rod floor or tumble track to resi pit / air bag?

I have heard the modern air bag systems are very good… however… I have never coached at a facility with them.

 

[Soaring]

My gym was able to get through not having a pit by bringing girls to another local gym to use their pit when first starting to train skills like flipping vaults and double backs. Then they heavily relied on drills, creative equipment set ups, and spotting. It definitely is not ideal, but not impossible to safely train high level skills without a pit. It just can be a lot more time consuming and requires smart coaching.

 

[gym_dad32608]

My opinion, absolutely not. Given that you have stated elite path or training elite, ask yourself this, do you see Addison Fata or Jocelyn Roberson or Jayla Hang or any other jr/sr elite training in a gym without a pit? You don't, because the training level and skills thrown in practice require a pit to be effective. Training at that level without a pit is at best a compromise that will stunt development and at worst dangerous.

 

[RTT2]

No pit would be a dealbreaker for my kid. I could see it working ok if there was another facility nearby with a pit where they could easily train, but I think a foam pit is pretty essential.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think that, with a trampoline and a good sound technical approach, it is possible to safely and effectively train up to about L8ish without a pit.

I'd also say that if I had to choose between a gym with no trampoline and a gym with no pit, I'd take the latter.

..... but I also (if I were still coaching) would be very reluctant to train anything higher than level 8 without a pit (and if it's available, I'll make use of it as early as L4).

 

[CrazyTrain]

This is a tough question as much of it depends on the coaches training style as well. Here are a few questions…

1. Do they have an in ground resi pit / airbag landing for vault?
2. Do they have an in ground resi / airbag for bar releases and dismounts?
3. Do they have string bed / web bed competition style trampoline?
4. How about an overhead spotting rig over the trampoline?
5. Do they have a spring floor to in ground resi pit / air bag?
6. How about an rod floor or tumble track to resi pit / air bag?

I have heard the modern air bag systems are very good… however… I have never coached at a facility with them.

They are building a two foot platform for the vault for landings into a resi pit.

The rest I am unsure of as it is currently under construction and we are using another gym facility in the interim.

I am waiting to see how it all comes together. She has a great coach but a new facility without a pit is causing concern especially during the summer months where there is more time for new skills.

I am just trying to educate myself better about what is normal and customary versus what is a stretch and potential item of legitimate concern.

Thank you all for your feedback thus far.

 

[JBS]

potential item of legitimate concern

No pit would be that.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

I wouldn’t feel comfortable with my daughter training upper level optionals without a pit. :/

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think that, with a trampoline and a good sound technical approach, it is possible to safely and effectively train up to about L8ish without a pit.

I'd also say that if I had to choose between a gym with no trampoline and a gym with no pit, I'd take the latter.

..... but I also (if I were still coaching) would be very reluctant to train anything higher than level 8 without a pit (and if it's available, I'll make use of it as early as L4).

To expand on this a bit:

For anything before saltos, I tend to actively avoid using a pit if I can; it has little to no technical benefit and slows practice down because it takes time for athletes to climb out.

For learning saltos, it is certainly not necessary (I'd much prefer a trampoline and/or tumbletrak), but it can be fun and help build confidence to occasionally let athletes work punch fronts into a pit (though even for this I prefer a resi to a loose foam pit).

Learning twisting is the first place where I think there's any real benefit to having a pit over not having one.... and even here, I prefer to do most of the work on a trampoline. Trampoline is where I'd do most of the progressions and technical work to build good clean twisting; the pit is just for the first couple tries to get accustomed to the feel of twisting.

Learning double saltos is where I think a loose foam pit actually becomes important. Some athletes are naturally comfortable with double saltos, while others will get lost and go completely loose as they start the second salto until they get used to it, and there's no way to predict what will happen with any particular athlete until they've tried a few double saltos -- which means those first few double saltos really need to done into a pit.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I still think a trampoline provides significantly more technical benefit than a pit. Trampoline is where the bulk of the technical development should happen for most skills, imo. The primary benefit of a pit is that a skill can be done sloppily and still be (relatively) safe, but trampoline is in most cases the best place to build good strong technique.

 

[JBS]

I'll expand on our usage a bit like @Geoffrey Taucer did above.

Let me start out with our equipment...

• We have one foam pit. We have a 55' long tumbling strip (spring floor) into our foam pit. The foam pit is 10' wide by about 30' long. It has a single rail over it with about 18' of foam on one side and 12' of foam on the other.
• We have one vault that runway and it lands on an in-ground resi
• We have what we call our "tumble deck". The tumble deck has...
  • 40' long Tumbl Trak with a 20' run on that dismounts onto a resi that sits about 3" below the Tumbl Trak (so the frame doesn't cut up the resi)
  • 40' long tumbling strip of the exact same construction of our spring floor (baltic birch). This is 7' wide and dismounts onto a resi that is flush with the surface of it. It also has a 20' run on.
  • 40' rod floor that dismounts onto a resi that is flush with the surface of it. It also has a 20' run on.
• We have our bars build up on a deck so that 24" resi pits extend from the center of the rails into the dismount area with a set of bars on each side facing each other. This means we have 2 sets of "resi" bars.
• We have a decked up beam with so we can dismount onto a 24" resi there as well.
• We also have 2 in-ground trampolines. One of them is a Rebound string bed and the other is a traditional poly bed. The string bed has a spotting rig over it.
• We also have an overhead spotting rig over a single rail for bar released and such.
• Almost forgot... several mini-tramps... including a Rebound brand string bed mini.

Now how we use it for our gymnastics team...

• Single saltos including flyaways... no real foam pit usage. All of this we teach without a foam pit.
• Double saltos backward...
  • First learn back tuck on trampoline
  • Then learn these 4 things (these are all being learned at the same time)...
    • 1.25 to your back with a pullover out on tramp
    • Cody on tramp
    • Double back in the spotting rig
    • Snap down double back into the foam pit with a spotter
  • Then double back on trampoline with a spotter on the tramp
  • Then double back with slide mat
  • Then double back by self on tramp
  • Then anywhere else in the gym you want to learn it
• Double saltos forward...
  • First learn front tuck on trampoline... off mini-tramp... and off Tumbl Trak
  • Then learn all of these...
    • Crash dive & crash dive ball out
    • Nice dive rolls off of Tumbl Trak and mini-tramp
    • Front tucks in a row on tramp and Tumbl Trak
    • Demonstrate very good control and air sense on front flipping
  • Then huge front tucks kick opens with good control off of mini-tramp into foam pit
  • Then if the step above is looking good... then they just kick open up high and re-tuck it under to learn the double front
  • Once they are showing that they can spot between the flips... then they are allowed to double front in the foam
  • Then same thing onto a mat in the foam
  • Then they can use it anywhere they want it the gym
• Twisting forwards and backwards...
  • NOTE: 85%+ of our twisting is learned NOT into the foam pit. When learned into the foam pit it is only one specific station that we use... the snap down back layout twist into the foam. We do no front twisting into loose foam and we do no back tumbling into loose foam to learn twisting.
  • First we learn either a back layout or a front pike on trampoline
  • After that it's all just bounce half stuff
  • Like this post... https://chalkbucket.com/forums/thre...le-full-and-one-more-thing.42325/#post-248987
  • Again... the only station we use into loose foam is the snap down back twist. This station is vital in the speed at which twisting skills are produced though. In other words... without this station it could take months or years longer to get good at twisting. The key to this station is that it must be used in alternation with the trampoline. They do all the bounce half drills that they can starting with a layout and 1/2ing up on the trampoline... then they move over to the pit and throw their maximum twist (the one they would crash on) there. Then they move back to trampoline and do it again.
• Double flipping twisting...
  • First our athletes get all the trampoline building blocks...
    • Codys
    • Kabooms
    • Crash dive ball outs
    • Cruises
    • Cradles
  • Then once they have double back / fronts and good twisting... they just launch themselves into the foam to learn. We do "up" drills and tramp drills as needed. Spotting is always key on double flipping twisting skills. No spotting... no go. They must demonstrate that they are "in" the skill and not "lost".
  • We then transfer the skills to our tumble deck (resi pits) very quickly... usually within a few days... many times within a few turns. Athletes with air sense have no issues transferring skills to a landing almost immediately as long as they are high enough to land. The tumble deck makes it easy to get the height as we have both a Tumbl Trak and a rod floor there.
  • We will train every variation of skills as well. For example... full in... full out... 1/2 1/2... and arabian in 1/2 out.
  • Here is our tumble deck...

Continued in next post...

 

[JBS]

Continued from the last post...

Onto vault...

We use a Table Trainer and a mini-tramp for forward entry vaulting (tsuk... kaz... hand front)... we use the T-trainer for yurchenko style vaulting into our foam pit. We only have 55' from the wall to the pit... so this only gives us about a 50' run. This is why we use the "bouncy" vault surfaces (mini-tramp or t-trainer). Here is our yurchenko setup...



Tsuks and such is with a mini-tramp and a Table Trainer. "Table Trainer" vs "T-Trainer" is one is a regular vault table made of hard foam and the other is a trampoline table.

Our vault setup works fine as we only really need the ability to "throw" into loose foam a few times before try to convert it. We go straight from the "bouncy" vault setups that we use to vault on a resi. For forward entry vault we will use the mini-tramp until the athlete as enough power to use the springboard. So full vault onto resi with the Rebound mini-tramp at full angle and table usually on 135 cm.

We also do this type of stuff into our pit (this is at U of Nebraska on the men's side)...

Now into foam pit usage for bars as we have a single rail over loose foam...

Not much to say here... I think that this is vital in learning speed and reduction of fear. Our pit bar will lower down to only 4' above the foam and go up to full height. We use it for everything from Level 4's trying to get a new cast handstand by themselves all the way up to high level release moves and dismounts. Things like front giants are also good just in case of peeling off on the first attempt.

Summary...

While we only use the foam pit for 10-15% of the turns for the skills and progressions listed above... it is absolutely vital for that. Foam pits speed up skill acquisition while reducing fear.

Due to the fact that we like to lower our pit bar and kick foam out of the way... an airbag pit system would not work for our training style.

If I could have another foam pit... I would have a second vault runway into loose foam.

 

[JBS]

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I still think a trampoline provides significantly more technical benefit than a pit. Trampoline is where the bulk of the technical development should happen for most skills, imo. The primary benefit of a pit is that a skill can be done sloppily and still be (relatively) safe, but trampoline is in most cases the best place to build good strong technique.

^^^ 100% this.

 

[JBS]

Here is a poll from a while back...

For Coaches - Featured - Do we need pit for level 9 and level 10

My DD feels very comfortable staying a small gym without pit. She is practicing level 9 skills . I am worried about their facility has no pit , how much this wud affect the learning new skills of level 9 and level 10?

chalkbucket.com

 

[GymnastPotterhead]

I'm no where close to level 8/9/10 (xcel gold, training platinum) but pit is one of the places I feel comfortable doing skills. (Good thing or not, who knows?) A lot of my skills start in the pit, especially cuz I have weak ankles and its a super soft landing so I don't have to worry about getting injured...

 

[superNova08]

A pit can be a great tool if you have the right coaches, but honestly, I'd look more at the coaching rather than the presence of a pit. From experience a pit can be great for twisting skills as if you have the proper training there is less risk of injury. However, if you haven't been taught the proper prerequisites, you can get seriously injured.
Ex: Gymnast is told to do front full without training. The gymnast tears things in the knee. (Said gymnast was me)
The upside to having a pit it double flips and vaulting. A pit or resi pit is great for those in need of softer landings due to joints as well.
Ultimately I'd say to look more at the coaching. If the coach is good and can adapt to a gymnast's needs I'd say it's definitely possible to train upper levels without a pit.