WAG No sponsorship, thanks to Nassar....

[skschlag]

my ds recently got to go to the OTC and train for a weekend. He stayed on campus, and he was there with his coach. HOwever, the rules were very set in stone. NO adults were EVER allowed in the room of a minor, unless there was a medical emergency and then it had to be 2 adults. NO minors were allowed in the room of an adult. They could only stay in the hall to speak. At NO time were coaches/gymnasts to be alone. Gymnasts did not ride down with coaches, unless there were 2 coaches and more than 1 gymnast. Parents for the most part brought the kids. We were welcome to stay and watch practices. Had contact with our kids anytime we wnated.

Contrast that to the girls traveling alone with their coaches, to the middle of nowhere. No cell service ,little contact with parents, adults allowed in cabins apparently, gymnasts alone with adults.

To me, USAG has it right on one side, not right on the other. Is that a total USAG issue or is it the way the coaches do things?

I do think that the accusations were handled incorrectly. They did not do due diligence when things were brought to light. THey did try to sweep things under the rug. there is blame to go around on this one.

 

[l.c.o]

To be fair (and clear, in case) I was suggesting fault for the potential sponsorship fallout and image issues.

Not necessarily fault for the abuse itself.

I do think the overall blame is multifaceted. It was a failure of the system at large. Nassar and other sexual predators are sick, sick individuals. Would Nassar have likely hurt children anyway, had he not had access to gymnasts? Evidence seems to suggest yes. So, of course Nassar holds blame.

But had there been a way to shut it down early, there would have been less overall damage. To children or USAG's image.

 

[DefiniteMaybe]

they had a responsibility to do SOMETHING and all evidence points to the fact that they did very nearly absolutely nothing in all cases until it was forced by law.

This is not okay with me.

Apart from abuse occurring at the NTTC or during National Team travel/team competition, I guess I'm just not sure why criminal activity occurring by people associated with USAG was even presented to the USAG governing body anyway. Why wouldn't it be taken directly to law enforcement? The whole thing confuses me. I'm not sure why it's USAG's fault or responsibility when coaches who are loosely associated with them turn out to be criminals.

And, as far as safeguards go, outside of USAG National Team travel, I don't think it's USAG's responsibility to determine with whom an athlete is safe to travel.

Some kids wouldn't be able to compete in high level gymnastics if they were required to have parents (or extra female coaches or a chaperone) present every time they had to travel. And most high level gym parents I know would be way more comfortable having their daughter travel alone with her female coach (who has half raised her) than with a chaperone that they barely know.

I don't know. It's so easy for us to all post our opinions and advice, but there's really so much to discuss here. I think it's just difficult to deeply discuss such a complex issue on a public forum.

 

[Seeker]

I didn't say anything at all about team travel outside of the National Team...didn't really need to as there is more than likely enough fodder to establish negligence there. Have you read all of the legal documents that are available to the public regarding all of themcases? I've read about 75% of them and there is a lot to take in.

Based on all that I have gathered, there does seem to be an established pattern of looking the other way when something untoward is going on. Sure, they're not toally 100% responsible for everything -- I don't think anyone thinks that -- but I believe that they bear more responsibility than they've taken thus far. Remains to be seen what the courts will say, but I can totally see why a company would not want to sponsor a usag event right now. I wouldn't if I were the ones making those decisions.

 

[Seeker]

I didn't say anything at all about team travel outside of the National Team...didn't really need to as there is more than likely enough fodder to establish negligence there. Have you read all of the legal documents that are available to the public regarding all of the cases? I've read about 75% of them and there is a lot to take in.

Based on all that I have gathered, there does seem to be an established pattern of looking the other way when something untoward is going on. Sure, they're not totally 100% responsible for everything -- I don't think anyone thinks that -- but I believe that they bear more responsibility than they've taken thus far. Remains to be seen what the courts will say, but I can totally see why a company would not want to sponsor a usag event right now. I wouldn't if I were the ones making those decisions.

fixed errors

 

[GYM0M]

I have not read all the court documents. I don't really care to know all the ins and outs that these poor girls endured by the hand of a predator. That being said, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't a great deal of his abuse take place at Michigan? I don't see the NCAA taking any responsibility, changing policies, losing sponsors. The NCAA is charged with protecting college athletes. I also do not see the university jumping to move their program or change their facilities. And do you want to know what bothers me most about this situation? The fact that these abused girls continue to be exploited in pursuit of personal agendas. Maybe my opinion is biased, as I live in Texas and my DD is among the those that regularly attends these camps and I do not want her to have to regularly travel farther from home. Do I think that USAG could have handled it better? Yes; however, I do not think blame rests on their shoulders. But yes, I feel, the blame does rest on the culture of gymnastics, in general, but I don't see the culture changing unless they stop giving out gold medals.....& as far as the recommendations go, I don't feel comfortable with allowing USAG to dictate and/or govern how, when, where, or with whom MY daughter can travel, as I freely admit, in light of this situation, they don't have the best track record. I feel it's MY right to decide how, when, and with whom MY daughter travels and as such, it's MY responsibility to vet those that I entrust my daughter's care to, & if anything happens to her on what I consider MY watch, or the watch of those I elect in my stead, that falls on ME.

 

[DefiniteMaybe]

I didn't say anything at all about team travel outside of the National Team...

Sorry @Seeker. I threw in a little more than my response to you in my last comment. I should've been more clear.

 

[Seeker]

No, the abuse did not take place at Michigan --> he worked at Michigan State (small but significant difference). And yes, they are just as culpable here. What the courts ultimately decide remains to be seen, but there is a lot of shirking of responsibility or at the very least poor oversight for mandated controls.

I understand that abusers are successful because of their ability to be cunning and appear to be trustworthy. They are master manipulators and Nassar is no exception.

However, that's not really the focus of my comments or opinion. When presented with evidence that something wasn't right, they did nothing. In some cases, they took the information and made it seem as if they were doing something with it when they actually were not and had no intention of doing so. It's those stories where you start to see the inconsistencies in the application of their supposed policy. Why take a "report" if you're going to stick it in a file and do nothing? Some of those reporting were coaches and gym owners, so these are professional members of USAG reaching out to their governing body for guidance and assistance and getting the run around. I can't imagine a scenario where that would be deemed okay, but stranger things have happened.

 

[GYM0M]

Some of those reporting were coaches and gym owners, so these are professional members of USAG reaching out to their governing body for guidance and assistance and getting the run around. I can't imagine a scenario where that would be deemed okay, but stranger things have happened.

Sorry about the Michigan-Michigan State thing. I admit I have a bit of tunnel-vision and have not committed the details to memory.

I don't think it's ok, but I can see things from their viewpoint, which I admit is only my assumption of their viewpoint. My thought is that USAG would assume that any allegation of this nature, would be reported to the PROPER governing authority, i.e. Law enforcement, & the PROPER authority would conduct the investigation and determine the legitimacy of any criminal allegation, then proceed accordingly. I can think of a few reasons that this approach is most logical: A) USAG does not have the appropriate training for investigating these types of allegations, B) Any conclusions resulting from any type of in-house investigation would have been seen as biased by the non-favored party, C) any allegation concluded as false could have left them liable for insane amounts of money bc of ruined reputations, and the list goes on. It's what I call a CYA situation, & yes, they were most likely trying to pass the buck, but I don't think that makes them responsible. So, while their actions, or inactions, may be deemed as not ok, they don't blow my mind. On the other hand, what does blow my mind is that these allegations were not taken to law enforcement to begin with, but especially after it was obvious that USAG was passing the buck. In my opinion, it falls back on the adults that were involved with each gymnast that knew of the allegations. From personal experience, it's not the abuse itself that does the most damage....it's when the people you love, the people that you look to for support, for protection, turn their back on you. That's what hurts the most. When those coaches, gym owners, and even the parents allowed USAG's complacency, they became complicit in further damaging the self-esteem, self-worth, and self-image of those abused girls. And for me, this is the scenario that is not and will never be ok.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

USAG is in a bad place and needs to re brand.....

 

[GYM0M]

If your child got off the school bus running a high fever, you wouldn't go to her teacher and await further instruction from the school board. No, you would take her to the doctor, who would diagnose her and treat her. If the disease was serious enough to infect the entire class, school, or district, then you would seek out her teacher and expect them to handle notifying the rest of the class, school, district, & school board, if need be.

 

[raenndrops]

Apart from abuse occurring at the NTTC or during National Team travel/team competition, I guess I'm just not sure why criminal activity occurring by people associated with USAG was even presented to the USAG governing body anyway. Why wouldn't it be taken directly to law enforcement? The whole thing confuses me.

This is where I am at. If somebody committed a crime against my child, I would report it to LAW ENFORCEMENT. Let the LAW sort it out. Once the criminal is found guilty, they would then not pass a background check. Reporting it the the NGB (in this case, USAG), should actually come AFTER the police have gotten involved.
#1 - Report to police
#2 - Report to the gym ownership (if they are not aware already)
#3 - Report to USAG

We also need to do a better job of talking to our kids. They have to understand that they can come to us if something hinky is going on... or if they are unsure if what is going on is right.
Heck, I have a relative in her 40s that wasnt sure if her doctor did something inappropriate to her during an appointment. She said it felt like it was inappropriate, but she wasnt sure and didnt want to accuse him falsely. She has since filed a report. He is facing charges. A few others have since come forward. I say this because if an ADULT has issues knowing, how are we supposed to expect kids to? The answer is we can't. We have to keep the lines of communication open!

 

[sce]

To me, USAG has it right on one side, not right on the other. Is that a total USAG issue or is it the way the coaches do things?

I wonder if the rules you encountered are OTC rules not just specifically USAG?

 

[Seeker]

Sorry about the Michigan-Michigan State thing. I admit I have a bit of tunnel-vision and have not committed the details to memory.

I don't think it's ok, but I can see things from their viewpoint, which I admit is only my assumption of their viewpoint. My thought is that USAG would assume that any allegation of this nature, would be reported to the PROPER governing authority, i.e. Law enforcement, & the PROPER authority would conduct the investigation and determine the legitimacy of any criminal allegation, then proceed accordingly. I can think of a few reasons that this approach is most logical: A) USAG does not have the appropriate training for investigating these types of allegations, B) Any conclusions resulting from any type of in-house investigation would have been seen as biased by the non-favored party, C) any allegation concluded as false could have left them liable for insane amounts of money bc of ruined reputations, and the list goes on. It's what I call a CYA situation, & yes, they were most likely trying to pass the buck, but I don't think that makes them responsible. So, while their actions, or inactions, may be deemed as not ok, they don't blow my mind. On the other hand, what does blow my mind is that these allegations were not taken to law enforcement to begin with, but especially after it was obvious that USAG was passing the buck. In my opinion, it falls back on the adults that were involved with each gymnast that knew of the allegations. From personal experience, it's not the abuse itself that does the most damage....it's when the people you love, the people that you look to for support, for protection, turn their back on you. That's what hurts the most. When those coaches, gym owners, and even the parents allowed USAG's complacency, they became complicit in further damaging the self-esteem, self-worth, and self-image of those abused girls. And for me, this is the scenario that is not and will never be ok.

Maybe you're misinterpreting what was being reported to them. In addition to the Nassar-related issues of abuse being discussed, coaches and gym owners understandably reached out to USAG, their governing body and issuer of coaching certifications, to report a multitude of issues related to coaches displaying abusive and/or inappropriate behavior. They wanted to report the issues, wanted support/advice/guidance in how to address these issues as well as to log some sort of official complaint so that it would be on the record and hopefully investigated and considered in the review and potential revocation of that license. There are multiple examples of this type of scenario, where nothing was done when there were multiple gym owners and coaches reporting behaviors that should have caused at the very least some sort of investigation or incident report. There was simply no intention of doing so nor a process to support that. Which seems very odd to me -- if you're going to require a certification to coach at USAG meets and events, then there ought to be a way to revoke that certification based on observation of certain behaviors. But there wasn't a process for doing so until such time someone was convicted of a crime or jailed, which we all know can take several years. That approach may have been fine had that been spelled out explicitly and the same process followed every time. But that didn't happen either. The inconsistent application of the "policy" may be the thing that bites them in the end.

Either way, the response from them at large has not been satisfactory. Of course, as you mentioned, the responsibility for what happened touches many others as well -- it is not all on them -- but they are top dog here. They need a better crisis management team and some better guidance for how to rehabilitate their reputation. It is still seriously lacking/falling flat.

 

[Seeker]

I wonder if the rules you encountered are OTC rules not just specifically USAG?

I spent quite a bit of time at the Colorado Springs OTC in 95-96 and even way back then, there were very strict guidelines in place for how to handle having minors on the campus.

 

[skschlag]

I wonder if the rules you encountered are OTC rules not just specifically USAG?

They seemed to come from our regional director. They were what he put in place. So I was assuming USAG. But could just be his rules I suppose. Although I have heard the Jr Nat Team has the same rules....

You also cannot stay there until you are 12..(that is an OTC rule)

 

[mommyof1]

As far as USAG's responsibility goes, it doesn't matter whether the victims reported or should have reported the abuse to law enforcement or USAG or anyone else. The culture and formal policies of the USAG women's program created an environment which made it all too easy for these things to happen and all too difficult for the children and young women affected to report, and in many cases even to question or recognize, the crimes that were committed against them. It is 100% a USAG issue, and it's affecting the image of the sport right down to the very lowest levels. I am willing to bet that I'm not the only low-level JO parent out there fielding questions from friends and fellow parents about how I could possibly let my child continue in the sport given the scandal. Perhaps economic pressure from the loss of sponsorships will prompt a stronger response and the necessary rebranding.

 

[DefiniteMaybe]

My teenage daughter has attended developmental camps at the NTTC for several years. She is a wise, old soul, and she is very aware of all that's happened. She is absolutely heartbroken for the victims. She believes that the perpetrators should be severely punished. However, as an athlete herself, she does not understand why anyone would blame USAG for the atrocities committed there by one evil man, or elsewhere by a few others. She has never felt like she couldn't speak up for herself, and she has never felt unsafe at camp or with her coaches. She believes the USAG national staff and her coaches have taken very good care of her over the years. And while doing so, they've helped her to become a strong young woman and they have helped her to move closer to her goals and dreams. DD absolutely loves the camp. I wish you could all hear it from her perspective. From an insider's point of view. She is baffled by the theme that is echoed over and over blaming the "environment created by USAG." She finds the camp environment especially empowering. And many of her friends feel the same. It is a high pressure environment, but my dd would argue vehemently against it priming girls to endure abuse. She would argue quite the opposite, actually.
Again, we are absolutely broken for the girls who were abused. I wish more than anything that we could turn back time and stop any of that abuse from ever happening. The victims have their own story to tell.
And I would bet that most of the girls who've spent much time at the camp have their own story, too.
My dd is not alone in her opinions. And she's pretty devastated about the NTTC changing locations. She just recently said, "You know how Harry Potter says that Hogwarts is his home? That's how I feel about (Karolyi) camp!"

 

[flippinam]

Sorry about the Michigan-Michigan State thing. I admit I have a bit of tunnel-vision and have not committed the details to memory.

I don't think it's ok, but I can see things from their viewpoint, which I admit is only my assumption of their viewpoint. My thought is that USAG would assume that any allegation of this nature, would be reported to the PROPER governing authority, i.e. Law enforcement, & the PROPER authority would conduct the investigation and determine the legitimacy of any criminal allegation, then proceed accordingly. I can think of a few reasons that this approach is most logical: A) USAG does not have the appropriate training for investigating these types of allegations, B) Any conclusions resulting from any type of in-house investigation would have been seen as biased by the non-favored party, C) any allegation concluded as false could have left them liable for insane amounts of money bc of ruined reputations, and the list goes on. It's what I call a CYA situation, & yes, they were most likely trying to pass the buck, but I don't think that makes them responsible. So, while their actions, or inactions, may be deemed as not ok, they don't blow my mind. On the other hand, what does blow my mind is that these allegations were not taken to law enforcement to begin with, but especially after it was obvious that USAG was passing the buck. In my opinion, it falls back on the adults that were involved with each gymnast that knew of the allegations. From personal experience, it's not the abuse itself that does the most damage....it's when the people you love, the people that you look to for support, for protection, turn their back on you. That's what hurts the most. When those coaches, gym owners, and even the parents allowed USAG's complacency, they became complicit in further damaging the self-esteem, self-worth, and self-image of those abused girls. And for me, this is the scenario that is not and will never be ok.

I do agree that any abuse should definitely first be reported to appropriate law enforcement. However, I think USAG has the responsibility to be more cautious with who they certify and allow to keep their certifications. Sometimes nothing that is "technically" illegal happens and therefore can't really be handled by law enforcement. I have a personal connection to an example of this. I'll refer to this coach as Bob. Bob was consistently giving one particular gymnast on his team special attention and bought multiple gifts for her. After doing this for about a year, he said something inappropriate to her. This gymnast was smart enough to tell trusted adults before any physical abuse could happen. After she came forward with this, several other young coaches and gymnasts came forward with similar stories with Bob. Several reports were filed to USAG, since Bob had technically done nothing illegal and it couldn't be fully handled by law enforcement. USAG should have revoked his certification since he was a clear threat to young gymnasts. However, they only gave him a one year suspension. The gymnast that reported his behavior and most of her teammates left the gym after that. There was no public record or announcement of his suspension, though, and he continued to coach a new group of gymnasts throughout that year (just not going to competitions) under the pretext that they weren't ready to compete yet. The next year he continued on as normal, competing at USAG sanctioned meets. This is not okay, and I'm sure it happens more often than we'd like to believe.

 

[flippingtogether]

USAG is in a bad place and needs to re brand.....

To get back to the OP's original question about sponsorships and thoughts on this, ^^^ this is 110% true and why I am not surprised at all, and am very very glad, that the sponsors all pulled out. The train wreck is still continuing in terms of media and PR (see new story links below).

The bottom line: if corporations sponsor these big USAG events, they are in fact giving money to and fueling the USAG, the big, bad organization with a VERY tarnished brand in the eyes of the general public (and in the eyes of many (most? all?) in the gymnastics community). The brand is getting more tarnished every day as the stories aren't stopping yet.
By giving money to sponsor these big events, a corporation is stating they support all that USAG stands for, what they do, and what they have done. NO WAY will any corporation right now actively and vocally support USAG. They can't, and they shouldn't.

Remember these headlines in mainstream media outlets: (with links if you want to see the story)
USA Gymnastics Blasted for Skipping Senate Hearing on Sex Abuse (NBC, March 2017)
USA Gymnastics slammed for not attending Senate hearing (USA Today, March 2017)

And here are newer headlines - this last story is new to me (and really makes my blood boil):
After Abuse Scandal, USA Gymnastics Says It Will Take Steps To Protect Athletes (NPR, June 2017)
USA Gymnastics Failed to Protect Athletes From Sex Abuse: Report (NBC, June 2017)
AFTER SEXUAL ASSAULT SCANDAL, OUSTED U.S. GYMNASTICS LEADER GETS BIG PAYDAY (Newsweek, June 2017)

(Re: this last news story - does everyone know that Steve Penny got approx. $1M in a severance package? THAT will make any corporation run from sponsorship - b/c that severance package is where sponsorship money goes! Yikes - this looks terrible to the outside world - and believe me perceptions are SO important. Run, potential sponsors, run as far and fast as you can from this never-ending train wreck.)

These headlines above are how the general public views USAG - basically everyone is constantly reminded of just the awful things happening in the sport of gymanstics.
The org has A LOT of work cut out for them. A reasonable goal is for them to get sponsors back in 2018 - that will take a lot of work and brand re-building.
We shall see if it happens.