WAG NSW - National and State Stream

[mazz642]

Hi all! Apologies as I know this is unlikely to get much traction here but I can no longer find the Australia forum.

It seems that GymNSW has added a National and State stream option. Just curious if anyone knows much about it? Is it a formal thing where you have to be registered as a State or National gymnast or is it up to the club's discretion what a gymnast is entered as at individual comps? If so, do you think this will lead to some gyms entering gymnasts into the State stream comps as a way to have them be more likely to place and only keeping their top gymnasts who are likely to make State and National comps, in the National stream? I did notice this year in competitions there were some comps which had a state option so it seems it was rolled out this year. I have noticed previously on social media some clubs referring to gymnasts as 'state' gymnasts but if this was not formal by GymNSW before, so is what was the point of this?

Anyway just curious if anyone knows more about it and thought it would be an interesting discussion to have

 

[JessSyd]

Hi,

I am not an expert in this - just a gym parent, but there definitely were state stream competitions this year.

I know it was a thing that existed many years ago, and was for kids who didn't want to do full competitive hours. And then it sort of disappeared when they rolled out the current Australian levels program, and now it is back.

Basically, it's for very low hours programs. For kids who want to train and like having competitions to work towards but can't put in the hours needed to not look out of place in the ALP stream. Or who don't want to train all four apparatus, or so on.

They are judged almost the same way with some minor concessions - like in levels 3-6 a skill (or two for some levels) can be omitted from bars or beam routines without coming off the start value. And because of the concessions, it doesn't lead to anything - the ALP kids can go to state and national clubs, and the border challenge trial and stuff like that, whereas state levels are not designed to lead to those.

Gymnasts can switch between streams - but it'd usually be a case of a state gymnast getting keen and wanting to put in more hours, or an ALP gymnast wanting to drop back but not quit, rather than a coach deciding just before a comp based on potential medal counts.

According to the technical handbook, state levels girls are supposed to be banded (like level 3 and 4 are) rather than ranked anyway, so the potential for upping the medal count shouldn't really be there. (Although they got ranked at the one competition I saw them at).

This year it seemed to be very small. As in the one competition we were at that had a 'state stream' it was literally just two girls from one gym (that only has a state stream) and it made the presentation for that category a bit awkward.

My daughter's club has a state stream, but it is basically just levelled rec gymnastics that follows the Australian levels program and competes at a in house competition once a year. Things might change if it catches on as a legitimate competitive stream but I don't know how much demand there is.

I don't think many clubs will use it to stream out girls who are able to commit to full training hours, as apart from anything else it doesn't make much economic sense. The staffing situation in most clubs is such that it is just easier and cheaper to keep the girls together as a team, rather than having to provide an extra coach and judge for an extra session, possibly on a different day, for girls who could have just competed the ALP.

Not to mention the angst of having to deal with parents! A team and B team politics are bad enough without bumping fully committed but less accomplished gymnasts down an entire competition category!

 

[Aussie_coach]

Interesting. In our State we don’t have the state stream but we have also never had the State Stream.

 

[mazz642]

Hi,

I am not an expert in this - just a gym parent, but there definitely were state stream competitions this year

Hi Jess! Thank you so much for your incredibly detailed reply. That’s explained a lot! My daughter was level 4 this year and will be in 5 next. We are at a small relatively low hours gym (it seems) but don’t have the state stream. So I assume we won’t enter state as the hours perhaps aren’t low enough.
My daughter is only 7 so I don’t think she’d even realise if she was competing in different streams at different comps but I can imagine that would possibly cause angst amongst older gymnasts if it wasn’t a choice to change it up based on their own ability to commit hours at the time.
Very curious to see how it all eventuates this year.
I guess the state option is good for gyms who have lower hours girls who want to compete but not ALP and then there are actual Regional comps they can enter without having to just offer in club ones.
Question, what do you mean banded vs ranked? In level 4 they did both. Banded ribbons and medals for handed gold-bronze but still did places for apparatus and AA. Sorry! Total novice here.

 

[JessSyd]

Yeah some individual competitions band and rank girls in levels three and four (this is relatively new - back when my daughter did those levels they never gave out places) and some just award bands but not places. At the regional competition level it just depends how the region decides to run things.

It would definitely cause angst among older gymnasts if they weren’t given a choice. I think my daughter would rather quit or go noncompetitive than go into the state stream, as it would feel like ’fake competitions’ to her after years in the NLP. I think it would feel different though for girls who were advanced rec gymnasts and had it sold to them as ‘how about you work towards a competition’.

My daughter’s gym does very low hours for senior levels - maxes out at 14 hours a week from level six all the way up to level ten (they have taken girls to nationals on that). Girls progress slowly on those hours, but there is no question of shifting to state stream. It isn’t the goal of the girls, or their coaches.

 

[Invisible Duck]

Victoria used to have a state stream that was based on the national stream requirements but a little bit more simplified and with a bit more flexibility in requirements. State level 10 would have been roughly equivalent to national level 8. Max training hours for state stream was 12 hours and was monitored by the tech committte to an extent but was mostly an honour system.
The last year we had this was 2014.
Since the introduction of the current ALP we now have division 1 & 2. Requirements are identical but in division 2 it’s much more common for gymnasts to be missing a requirement here or there. It’s pretty unlikely that a div 2 level 10 will have all requirements, especially on bars.
I’m actually not sure if there are specific training hour restrictions for division 2.
all gymnasts compete at same events and are split by divisions for awards. Only division 1s would be trialling for state team at 8-10.
Basically it’s a great option for smaller gyms or gymnasts who do not or cannot commit to high hours.

 

[mazz642]

Yeah some individual competitions band and rank girls in levels three and four (this is relatively new - back when my daughter did those levels they never gave out places) and some just award bands but not places. At the regional competition level it just depends how the region decides to run things.

It would definitely cause angst among older gymnasts if they weren’t given a choice. I think my daughter would rather quit or go noncompetitive than go into the state stream, as it would feel like ’fake competitions’ to her after years in the NLP. I think it would feel different though for girls who were advanced rec gymnasts and had it sold to them as ‘how about you work towards a competition’.

My daughter’s gym does very low hours for senior levels - maxes out at 14 hours a week from level six all the way up to level ten (they have taken girls to nationals on that). Girls progress slowly on those hours, but there is no question of shifting to state stream. It isn’t the goal of the girls, or their coaches

Ours were a combination of bands and places for regional comps and just places for the invitational comps. Sorry I get confused with the terminology.
So prior to this change, did the 'State' gymnasts attend the invitational competitions alongside the ALP/NLP gymnasts? Just not the State and regional comps run by
GymNSW?
My daughter will be 11/12 (I think, haven't got the schedule yet) hours for level 5. I'm not sure what it maxes out at.

Victoria used to have a state stream that was based on the national stream requirements but a little bit more simplified and with a bit more flexibility in requirements. State level 10 would have been roughly equivalent to national level 8. Max training hours for state stream was 12 hours and was monitored by the tech committte to an extent but was mostly an honour system.
The last year we had this was 2014.
Since the introduction of the current ALP we now have division 1 & 2. Requirements are identical but in division 2 it’s much more common for gymnasts to be missing a requirement here or there. It’s pretty unlikely that a div 2 level 10 will have all requirements, especially on bars.
I’m actually not sure if there are specific training hour restrictions for division 2.
all gymnasts compete at same events and are split by divisions for awards. Only division 1s would be trialling for state team at 8-10.
Basically it’s a great option for smaller gyms or gymnasts who do not or cannot commit to high hours.

Wow 12 hours max for State stream, and that was low hours?
The divisions sounds like a good way of breaking up the competitions. This year a couple of comps were like that, one comp but awards given out were broken into state vs national.

 

[JessSyd]

I don’t actually know? Suspect it varies from region to region and invitational to invitational. I have been to regionals where the state girls competed with the group and were separated during presentation. And invitationals where there was no state stream. And invitationals with divisions that weren’t related to stream, just an honour system on training hours and readyness. So a huge variation!

I didn’t see any at metro state trials at all (which makes sense, as they are trials for states), and the State Stream states is a completely separate occasion to regular states. And at that competition there is also a ‘repechage’ sort of states for girls in the ALP who didn’t qualify for the real states (same day but different session). (But it isn’t heavily attended, which is a shame as it is a really nice comp, and gives those girls the chance to compete with professional photographers present which is always nice).

 

[coach_M]

JessSyd did a great job of explaining this! The idea is that it’s a more flexible stream to make the sport more inclusive and give options for gymnasts who want to compete but can’t commit to the standard hours or are unable to do certain skills or apparatus. They don’t attend state trials, but can attend regional and club competitions if the organisers include it.

I think different clubs use the stream in different ways - my old club had a seperate group that trained lower hours and they compete state stream levels 3 and 4 but not above.
My current club has a testing system for all gymnasts, and if they don’t achieve the required testing score they will do state stream instead (that being said, the 3 girls we had doing state stream at the first regional comp were doing national stream by state trials and 2/3 went to state). We also have a few rec “levels” squads who have competed as state stream 3’s and might compete some kids in the higher levels next season.
I also know of some clubs that are usually smaller or worse performing clubs that entered all or more of their regular levels gymnasts in state stream

 

[coach_M]

Also, so exciting to see other people from Sydney on here amongst all the Americans!