Offshoot from the gym opening suggestions thread

[profmom]

Not attacking you, Gigi, and hope you don't take it that way. I just think it's hard for people in areas that haven't seen much impact to understand what's going on and what the risks are. I'm not in NYC, but many of my students are, and it's been a very horrible last few weeks for our campus community. I see those videos of beaches and it makes me very anxious and sad.

But I stand by what I've said about gym. I think the majority of people will behave sensibly, but it only takes a few irresponsible people to wreck things. I'd guess we can all name a few families in our respective gyms whom we know would send a sick child to practice. And I can't help thinking about kids going to fall meets and mingling with kids from all over their respective areas, some of whom might be from cautious gyms and some not. The reality is that we are all only as protected as the least protected among us.

 

[profmom]

Please stop calling people selfish. Sending sick kids to practice or a meet is selfish and irresponsible; returning to normal life and following all protocols to return healthy kids to gymnastics is not.

That is exactly my point. You might be careful. I might be careful. But it only takes one selfish careless person to undermine all the care you've taken. Go ahead and take temperatures at the door. That's not going to catch Suzie whose mom gave her three extra strength Tylenol before practice because if she misses practice she might not get her kip in time to move up. And when Suzie sneezes into the chalk bucket, it's not Suzie who will pay the price. It's quite possibly the 63 year old beam coach. If nursing homes where everyone is trying to be as conscious and careful as possible because of the risks are still getting hit, I have no confidence that gyms are somehow going to do better.

I wish it were not so. I wish I could believe that everyone will change. But that's not human nature. I just hope we can get good testing and enough capacity to manage contact tracing soon.

 

[Gigi]

Not attacking you, Gigi, and hope you don't take it that way. I just think it's hard for people in areas that haven't seen much impact to understand what's going on and what the risks are. I'm not in NYC, but many of my students are, and it's been a very horrible last few weeks for our campus community. I see those videos of beaches and it makes me very anxious and sad.

But I stand by what I've said about gym. I think the majority of people will behave sensibly, but it only takes a few irresponsible people to wreck things. I'd guess we can all name a few families in our respective gyms whom we know would send a sick child to practice. And I can't help thinking about kids going to fall meets and mingling with kids from all over their respective areas, some of whom might be from cautious gyms and some not. The reality is that we are all only as protected as the least protected among us.

Not offended at all. I totally get where you're coming from. And I am just presenting a realistic picture of how the general public feel. We've been sort of imprisoned for weeks now. I am surprised we haven't all started getting totally annoyed with one another already. It is very sad that I look forward to walking the dog once a day as much as the dog does haha!!!!

I just still say that gym work out with small team is low risk compared to many other things going on. The kids need to get out of the house. Being cooped up in he house days on end is not healthy either, especially mentally.

 

[3rd_time_around]

That is exactly my point. You might be careful. I might be careful. But it only takes one selfish careless person to undermine all the care you've taken. Go ahead and take temperatures at the door. That's not going to catch Suzie whose mom gave her three extra strength Tylenol before practice because if she misses practice she might not get her kip in time to move up. And when Suzie sneezes into the chalk bucket, it's not Suzie who will pay the price. It's quite possibly the 63 year old beam coach. If nursing homes where everyone is trying to be as conscious and careful as possible because of the risks are still getting hit, I have no confidence that gyms are somehow going to do better.

I wish it were not so. I wish I could believe that everyone will change. But that's not human nature. I just hope we can get good testing and enough capacity to manage contact tracing soon.

Again, calling people selfish and careless in this thread is not adding to the discussion.

 

[txgymfan]

Anything posted that is not a suggestion is here.

 

[profmom]

I am not calling people in this thread or on these boards selfish and careless, unless there are people here who would send a child with a presumptive case of COVID-19 to gym. I hope that is not the case. However, given what many of us have reported on these boards over the years about parents and their investment in the sport, I think it would be wise for gyms to presume that not every team parent in every gym will behave responsibly.

My son's a coach. If he goes back to work before there is reliable antibody testing, he will not be able to visit his grandparents. Both my husband and I have public-facing jobs. If our workplaces resume normal operations before there is reliable antibody testing, we will be in the same boat with regard to our parents. We can take care of ourselves and behave responsibly but we can't control the behavior of the people with whom we interact. Heck, the brother of NY's governor, widely celebrated for his handling of the crisis, was out in public with his damn germy self after everyone knew he had been diagnosed! Latest news is that his son now has it. Most Americans have not adjusted mentally to the kind of community-minded orientation that managing this crisis will require until there are good medical remedies.

So in terms of safety for all institutions, including gyms? We need two prongs. One would be all of the measures to prevent spread: social distancing, barriers to spread (so coaches should be wearing masks, I think), minimal physical contact, rigorous and frequent cleaning of equipment, thorough hand-washing between event rotations (not just hand sanitizer), immediate ban of clients/staff who are either diagnosed or exposed, identification of vulnerable staff members and institution of additional precautions for them, perhaps temp checks at the door, and whatever other measures seem sensible. But we need to keep in mind that nursing homes that have had greater restrictions and care have also seen outbreaks.

The other prong is harder. It requires changing the way we think about our obligations to others. It's not just my responsibility to keep myself healthy and safe. If I get COVID-19, I am almost certainly going to get a mild version based on my own experience with infectious diseases. But I need to think about what I owe to my students, my friends, my colleagues, and my other associates. No more of this "take a couple of sudafed and ibuprofen and go on as usual." I need to reframe that kind of behavior not as tough and laudable, but as selfish and dangerous.

It's a real conundrum. I think if we could all change our thinking and behavior radically, it would be safer to reopen things. Unfortunately, the people who are really concerned about the disease are against reopening, and the people in favor of reopening want everything to go back to normal with no change in our thinking.

I just hope that everyone in this community and their families remain in good health and that no one has to experience a direct encounter with this disease.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Nearly all of the listed precautions focus on surface contact. This is important, but respiratory droplets are an even bigger concern. Example:

2 dead from coronavirus, 45 ill after March choir rehearsal | CNN

Two people have died from Covid-19 and 45 people are ill after a March 10 choir practice in Washington state, health officials said.

www.cnn.com

March 10.

 

[mommyof1]

March 10.

The date is irrelevant. The point is that 75% of the group apparently caught the virus from respiratory droplets from an asymptomatic carrier.

 

[Freddy's Fred]

I live in Georgia and have emails with schedules starting Monday. There are some planning on reopening.

Gosh. Do you mind sharing the names of gyms you know about? I saw that LA Fitness and Planet Fitness both originally said they would open, but now they are staying closed. I'm not judging gymnastics gyms that are opting to open for small groups, but ours in staying closed so I'm curious. I am also right in the metro so lots more cases in our neck of the woods.

 

[3rd_time_around]

The date is irrelevant. The point is that 75% of the group apparently caught the virus from respiratory droplets from an asymptomatic carrier.

The date isn’t irrelevant, because it was before anyone was paying attention.

 

[mommyof1]

The date isn’t irrelevant, because it was before anyone was paying attention.

Virtually all of the precautions we are discussing address surface contact. I am pointing out that transmission through respiratory droplets in a group setting is an even greater danger. Thus far, no one has suggested a way to reduce that risk in a gym aside from having the kids condition outdoors.

 

[Monkeymom76]

Has anyone thought about the rec program? We all know teams do not make the gym money, their rec programs do. How can gyms operate with teams only? The amount of money needed to pay rent, insurance, electricity, employees, etc can not be generated by the team alone. How is that going to work? Rec parents will not drop their little Susie at the door. Having only teams staggered throughout the day is a great idea for the team kids but it’s not good for the gym.

 

[LJL07]

Maybe "opening" was the wrong way to state this. Would "bringing in small groups of athletes under the radar" help everyone understand this better?

Yes. And that is definitely happening. I guess it depends on the state, but as long as the groups are very small and under 10, I don't think it is illegal for the gyms to do this. I think the gyms can say they are technically still closed if they are doing groups of 2-4 kids. USAG will not take any action either because gyms fall under "private businesses" according to what they have posted on their website. So it seems like it is up to the gym owners, regardless of shelter in place. I am skeptical of the no spotting and maintaining a 6 foot distance too at the upper levels. How would that be enforced? And it presents a totally different safety issue.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Teams are not our biggest source of income, but they really do carry many gyms. Seeing the top gymnasts is often what builds the gyms reputation and brings the red kids in. My team makes very little money directly, but the inspiration they provide our other gymnasts and our community brings in many, many kids and encourages many more to continue to train for many years. They are an important part of our successful business.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Honest and blunt opinion: I think several entire industries, will die out completely, and I think the gymnastics industry has at best a 50% chance of being among them. I think it will be years before events involving large live audiences (such as concerts) happen again. I give gymnastics about a 50% chance at surviving this at all.

Cleaning will have to happen much more frequently and thoroughly, which means the associated expenses will increase. I won't be surprised if the cost of insuring a gym increases, with the fear that clients could try to hold the gym liable for an outbreak that spreads among gym members.
The 2020 Olympics won't happen this year, and I'll be surprised if they even happen next year. I'll be surprised if they happen at all, so no Olympic-year-bump in attendance.
College sports will take a hit, because it's anybody's guess how long it will be before they can once again pack a stadium for a sports event. Which probably means fewer scholarships.
Fewer people will be in an economic situation that allows them to afford gymnastics. Fewer people will feel comfortable with their kid doing a sport that involves everybody taking turns putting their hands on the same equipment.
So, at the end of the day, there will be an increase in the cost of keeping a gym open, and a decrease in the number of kids coming to gym. The return of kids will not be a flood, it will be a trickle.

It will be many years before sports in general bounce all the way back, and a lot of sports won't make it through. Gymnastics -- at least in the USA (and probably other countries as well) -- might already be dead. As will many other industries that revolve around bringing large numbers of people together in close quarters.

 

[Aussie_coach]

At this stage I have not seen or heard of any gym losing their business yet. Everyone seems to just be hanging on and accessing the support they can and hoping to reopen soon.

But I think you are right about the more serious long term consequences. I think all the gyms around here will reopen once we are allowed, but to find that there is a drop in student numbers. There will certainly be some that find, they can no longer make ends meet financially.

We will see the true impacts in 6-18 months.

 

[amiandjim]

At this stage I have not seen or heard of any gym losing their business yet. Everyone seems to just be hanging on and accessing the support they can and hoping to reopen soon.

But I think you are right about the more serious long term consequences. I think all the gyms around here will reopen once we are allowed, but to find that there is a drop in student numbers. There will certainly be some that find, they can no longer make ends meet financially.

We will see the true impacts in 6-18 months.

I know of at least 8 gyms in the US that have closed.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I know of at least 8 gyms in the US that have closed.

That is very sad. As a gym owner you put your heart and soul into your gym, to see it fall apart is so tragic. And for so many of the gymnasts and the coaches, it is their second home and their happy place.

 

[Gigi]

I agree that many small businesses may never come back. We live in an area with a lot of small independently owned restaurants and some of them have posted on our neighborhood groups that they will not come back or they are really struggling and that take out only is not enough to keep them afloat. It is a sad state indeed. I don't know the profit margins of gyms but most kids sports businesses don't make you rich.

Kids graduating from college aside from not having the recognition, will also not get jobs this year. Many corporations have layout off plans. One of our large accounts already announced layoff plan of 50K employees. 50K!!!! I really feel that there will be long lasting economic impact. It is already May and we are still talking about flu.... the next flu season is almost here already.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I doubt concerts and sports will be done for years. Too much money in them. The almighty dollar speaks very loudly, and when everyone is fed up with unconstitutional mandates; and loss of income, homes, cars, and civil liberties; you can bet they will resume, either with litigation or with common sense. The 6-foot mandate is so people feel safe and think businesses and government are doing something, but like those who work in fields of biological containment said, it might as well be 1 foot or 10 feet. It’s just a number.