Parents On the topic of Crazy Gym Moms...

[sevenatenine2]

I have a very hard time drawing the line between being a Crazy Gym Mom and keeping my daughter (10) in check behaviorally. I was wondering if anyone else struggles with this? I know that many of you have children that are wonderfully self-motivated and disciplined and my daughter just.......isn't. In anything. I believe she may have ADHD, but she is not currently medicated. Her teachers at school have said it's not necessary for her there and I don't want to medicate just for sports.

I'm also coaching her in the gym so that provides a whole new level of struggle, but honestly, I don't care if she ever reaches the pinnacle of the sport. Likely, she will not. I DO care GREATLY that she gives her best shot, listens to corrections, and is respectful in gym. She is usually pretty respectful, but the corrections and 100% effort thing don't happen all the time. She lacks focus and sometimes she will be saying something to someone right before she has a turn, fling her body in the air and I know she's given no thought to any correction. When another coach or I give her a correction, she stands quietly but I can tell she's not really 100% engaged.

Of course, on the days she is focused, her gymnastics is 100000% percent better. Amazingly so, really.

So, as a parent, I have been staying on her about these issues in gymnastics and in the other sport she participates in. Like I said, it is not gymnastics. I also see the same thing when she does her homework at home. I feel like I need to stay and watch the other sport so I can give her the evil eye when it's necessary, but then at the same time, I feel like I'm sucking the fun out of the activities when I do that.

Her other coach has never said anything to me about it, so maybe I should drop it and be glad she's exercising and in shape? We've already dropped down from a more intense program and she's doing XCEL now. Life has been much better since then, but the focus issues all over the board still exist. Any advice or words of wisdom?

 

[Dr Maleficent]

I think sometimes its easy to get a skewed view of what is usual as people speak of their 6 year old who is in the gym 20 hours per week then comes home and practices conditioning for hours but trust me, most kids aren't like this and there's nothing whatsoever wrong with them!

I'm sure this isn't really what you meant, but even if she isn't wonderfully self-motivated and disciplined it doesn't mean she needs medicating to do gymnastics or anything else. I have worked with a lot of kids and the wonderfully self-motivated and disciplined ones are the exception rather than the rule. I do worry (not for you but generally) that such discipline and focus is often seen as 'normal' and children who don't match up to this are sometimes seen as being in need of medication. Please note that I am very aware that for certain children medication is in fact necessary and appropriate; I am just concerned that there is a tendancy towards putting more children on a programme of medication than just those with actual medical need.

Really, most 10 year olds would struggle to focus all of the time, and I think this happens more when it is a parent trying to teach them - I know my son plays piano far better for his piano teacher than when I am supervising practice for example! It happens with homework too - concentration in the classroom is often better than concentration when trying to do homework in the home environment when it is mum as 'teacher', and also other temptations beckon. If there isn't an alternative to you teaching her, you may just have to accept that she may sometimes concentrate a little less than she would for a coach who isn't mum.

Finally and most importantly, if the other coach isn't telling you its a problem, it probably isn't, so try not to worry, remind her sometimes about how important it is to listen to corrections for her own safety and for her future scores, and remember that the 'perfect' child is not the 'normal' child!

 

[MILgymFAM]

My younger DD is like that. She is absolutely respectful to adults, including her coaches, but sometimes her brain doesn't engage in receiving corrections and directions. Luckily, her coaches mostly "get" her and are patient, knowing she really cares and doesn't mean to tune out, but I do have to talk to her sporadically about really paying attention. She also had music in her heart and brain and will spontaneously break into dance- this seems to bother her coaches more, so I have to tell her to save her dances for her dance teacher, but I secretly love when she does that. I have found that when I am there she has a better practice, but when I leave she has a more fun (to her) practice. It's a toss up, but I have been hitting about 50/50 for being there- sometimes she asks me to stay and she has never asked me to leave.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Sounds like my 9 year old...she does competative dance, and when she is "on" she is such and beautiful dancer. But recently it seems more often than not, she's in "LaLa land". It breaks my heart. Especially because my 7 year old gymmie is that ridiculously motivated kid. I was in tears this summer, but now I am reframing it. They are different kids and in the big picture, all I want is for them to be happy. But don't get me wrong, I still have days when I worry she'll live in "the van down by the river" (remember the Chris Farley SNL skit?!). So, no you're not alone

 

[sevenatenine2]

Thanks to you all! I just struggle between the behaviors that, as mom, I need to step in and correct and the ones to just let her do her thing so she is enjoying the sports. I'm not planning on medicating her just for sport--it's not that important to me but I have yet to be able to find the line to draw and, as coach, it feels like I'm all over her all the time in practice. I try to keep them in line very little, but while her group of five is tumbling for example, yesterday she was standing by the wall measuring her vertical jump. Then she gets all the other kids to try their turn. Then she tumbles (without making her correction from the last turn), gets in line behind another kid and weavers her braid in and out of the plaits giving herself a ridiculous hairstyle and making the others laugh. Then, I fuss at her, remind her (again) of her corrections and then she will have a great pass. It seems to get good (gymnastics, academic work, other sport skill) out of her, it's usually right after a scolding and I just hate scolding all the time.

This is a kid that loves to play and have fun and be silly, in all walks of her life. She rushes through everything and the quality of her work (in sport and school) is often not the best of her ability, although she has a high IQ and a really good athletic ability. I thought she would mature out of a lot of this but she is 10 now.

 

[sevenatenine2]

It is difficult to be both coach and parent, as I think my child should be the best behaved out of the bunch, and this was probably prompted by something I saw on Facebook this morning:

"Your child's success of lack of success in sports does not indicate what kind of parent you are. But having an athlete that is coachable, respectful, a great teammate, mentally tough, resilient, and tries their best IS a direct reflection of your parenting."

I'd say my kid isn't all that coachable at this point, she's usually respectful.........she's an okay teammate, but to be honest, she's not always paying attention enough to even realize someones gotten a personal best or done a new skill until I point it out to the group....I'd say she's decently mentally tough, not all that resilient, and doesn't always give 100%. It's hard not to feel that doesn't speak towards my parenting!

 

[curlymop]

I have trouble with this, too. I have two younger boys on team, and both are capable of making corrections when they are focused. The problem is that they have trouble staying focused for any length of time. They are in first grade and kindergarden, and their teachers say they are really well behaved at school. I think they view gym more as fun time, and they are already maxed out after having focused all day at school.

I admit that I am guilty of having called them over to tell them to stop messing around and focus. So I'm basically distracting them from practice in order to tell them to stop being distracted. I'm trying to back off and let the coaches handle it, but it is so hard to resist the urge to parent them when I can see that they are misbehaving. We have a coaching shortage, so the coaches are often too busy with other kids and don't even see the behavior stuff I see. I know the answer is to watch less practice, and I'm doing that, too. But it seems like they keep it in check a little more if they know I'm around. Ugh. I'm working on it, but it's not easy.

 

[LJL07]

Mine is not 10--she's 7 1/2, but all of these behaviors sound very similar. She's very fun loving and silly--all the girls love her, but her focus is in and out. I could totally still see her having some of these behaviors at 10 too. It's just her personality. Mine has ADHD, and we did start a low dose of medication when she turned 7. And thank goodness. She would fling herself into back flips without stopping to think and could have hurt herself. And forget about making corrections. I know how frustrating this is!! When my daughter is "on," she is such a talented gymnast. I feel like a CGM too, although my CGM-ness bleeds over into school too. Meanwhile, I have an almost 5 year old who is very focused and on pre-team, and I almost never post about her. It's always this one! She will give me gray hair!! I can't imagine having to be in the gym WITH her. That would drive me nuts. I find that the less I watch practice the less crazy I feel.

 

[aerials]

"Your child's success of lack of success in sports does not indicate what kind of parent you are. But having an athlete that is coachable, respectful, a great teammate, mentally tough, resilient, and tries their best IS a direct reflection of your parenting."

I saw this today too. I struggle with the same issues you do as my dd has problems with focus. The quote angers me a little bit, it isn't always the parents. My dd is a great teammate, mentally rough and relilient but would sometimes be classified as uncoachable due to her ADHD issues. I almost posted today on the same issues due to the quote. It makes me feel like a faliure even though I work with her teachers, coaches and doctors on these issues so that she can be successfull.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I have 2 kids with ADHD and they are medicated. But I have talked to a lot of people whose kids are mildly ADHD and are not on meds. Many have found success in caffeine helping the child to focus, so maybe a glass of tea before practice or something? Also, no kid can give 100% at all times. I doubt an adult can either. Maybe talk to her outside of practice about taking a moment to think through what she is getting ready to do before she does it. Can be a couple of deep breaths, or going through the hand motions. But something to get her to stop and focus. Also maybe come up with a key word that you can say to trigger her to focus so that you don't have to "get on her" all the time.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks to you all! I just struggle between the behaviors that, as mom, I need to step in and correct and the ones to just let her do her thing so she is enjoying the sports.

Definitely the core of what we all struggle with as parents, in pretty much all areas of our kids lives - when to intervene and 'correct' vs let it go and let them make their own paths. Seldom is there a 'right' answer, and no two parents will make exactly the same judgments and choices - even in similar situations with similar kids. But darn it we try our best to get it 'right'!

....while her group of five is tumbling for example, yesterday she was standing by the wall measuring her vertical jump. Then she gets all the other kids to try their turn. Then she tumbles (without making her correction from the last turn), gets in line behind another kid and weavers her braid in and out of the plaits giving herself a ridiculous hairstyle and making the others laugh. Then, I fuss at her, remind her (again) of her corrections and then she will have a great pass. It seems to get good (gymnastics, academic work, other sport skill) out of her, it's usually right after a scolding and I just hate scolding all the time.

To me (and like I said, we would all make different judgments! This is just me and my experience/opinion!), doing vertical jumps in line while the focus should be on the tumbling is an example of unacceptable behavior in the context of a team gym class. The only thing acceptable with our Xcel girls while waiting in line is reasonably quiet talking. A little hair playing might be ok if it wasn't distracting the group. If a girl did what you described, the whole class would stop and have a talking to (if they participated), and the instigator would be strongly warned, and ultimately sent home if this type of thing was ongoing. There would be no 'this kind of thing happens a lot' as the girl would be forced to either follow the rules of proper conduct or not participate. Even with a valid medical reason (ADHD, etc), the coach would find an approach that lessened the opportunity for the girl to distract others, give her some time on the side to get wiggles out, etc, when needed, remind of corrections right before the turn in a patient way. But the distracting behaviors would need to all but stop.

May sound harsh, and maybe our gym takes Xcel more seriously than some, but I see gymnastics as a class - so just like you can't go do handstands or make your friends giggle at your funny hair in the middle of a teacher's science lesson (because this is disrespectful and distracting), you should likewise follow proper conduct in a tumbling lesson. Both science and gym are 'fun', but both must be learned (requires attention), and in a group learning environment, the teacher/coach must set clear conduct expectations - whatever she decides is logically appropriate - and hold children to these standards with consistent consequences (along with opportunities and boundaries FOR appropriate energy outlets, e.g., free play time, recess, games, etc.).

If the conduct standards are more 'loose', permitting more opportunity for potentially distracting behaviors, then it's likely that many students will indeed take these opportunities, and, consequently, lose focus more often on the teaching subject at hand. Too strict (e.g., don't move a muscle and stare straight ahead?) and it loses impact as it seems absurd. Each teacher will decide what is optimal.

Sure, some students will engage in fewer 'opportunities for distraction' than others, as some are more internally focused/motivated in the subject. These students will usually absorb more material and learn faster. The more easily distracted students, however, are the ones who will most benefit from tighter conduct rules (even though they will resist and push boundaries the most).

Though you perhaps can't 'make' a child focus more, you can create the best environment for it, and continually reward moments of great focus until (hopefully) success becomes self-rewarding. Continually permitting distracting behavior in the name of 'trying not to kill the fun' is tempting for an elective sport, but an organized sport at age 10, especially one with safety concerns like gymnastics, ultimately requires focused learning (my personal opinion).

This is a kid that loves to play and have fun and be silly, in all walks of her life. She rushes through everything and the quality of her work (in sport and school) is often not the best of her ability, although she has a high IQ and a really good athletic ability. I thought she would mature out of a lot of this but she is 10 now.

I should add that I have a son like this (possibly more severe). He is now 11. It is a constant experiment with his teachers to find ways to encourage him to focus and not distract himself and others. He is highly social, verbal, and attention-seeking. He also rushes and quality of work is seldom high though he is perfectly capable of high performance. He is athletic. We have tried a variety of sports with him, including gymnastics, in which coaches ID'd him as 'talented' and wanted him for team right away. He couldn't follow the conduct rules of team. He wanted to chat all the time and 'play' on the equipment out of turn. He didn't want to do the conditioning and 'cheated' on it all the time when coach would turn his back. Ultimately, we realized he liked the social and 'prestige' aspects of team/gym more than the actual training of the sport. We pulled him out before he ever competed (not in a mean way - we anguished over the decision at the time). He never asked to go back. He now walks on his hands at recess, does ugly front handsprings on the beach, and gets the attention he seeks. I'm not saying you should pull your daughter out of gym!! Just relating to the struggle of seeing a child with identified talents struggle to demonstrate the self-focus that this sport demands. We have two others who are team gymnasts. One with unreal laser focus (girl), and one with age-appropriate satisfactory focus (boy). They are happy in a strict gym environment and have no conduct issues. My older son was not. Just different people.

Sorry for the long ramble that probably sounded more judgy at times than supportive. It stems from my struggles with my (similar) son and his need for strict, clear conduct boundaries to get him to learn and achieve. For now, and possibly forever, he will need external rewards to boost his focus. My hope is that his successes from all his experiences with 'forced' focus now will ultimately be what it takes to inspire his internal ambitions and focus. It's my hope, but I know not a guarantee.

Good for you for reaching out for different views and experiences to try to help your DD. You sound like an awesome parent and I'm sure you'll find a way to keep the love of the sport alive while boosting her focus a little. Parenting is hard but amazing, right?

 

[Amusibus]

sevenatenine2 said: ↑ "Your child's success of lack of success in sports does not indicate what kind of parent you are. But having an athlete that is coachable, respectful, a great teammate, mentally tough, resilient, and tries their best IS a direct reflection of your parenting."

No, it's not.

This statement makes the assumption that we are starting with children who are all born equal. We are born with different genes, different bodies and minds, and different physiology, including neurophysiology controlling ability to focus and motivate/get the big picture (executive function). Even amongst the "normals" so much variation is present, but particularly for kids "in the syndrome mix" innate abilities are not the same.

Having children with ADHD and ASD, I hear comments all the time about how "that behavior wouldn't fly in MY home", and "let me have them for a week and I'll whip them into shape". After I got over being offended by these kind of statements, I realized that they are actually coming from a stance of innocent ignorance on the subject of neurodevelopmental disorders and their accompanying behaviors. And now I just laugh, and think what kind of week they would have with my child and how much of an eye opener it would be.

 

[iwannacoach]

.... I believe she may have ADHD, but she is not currently medicated. Her teachers at school have said it's not necessary .....

....Of course, on the days she is focused, her gymnastics is 100000% percent better......

Yes.... and on the days she is focused, outside the gym, her life is likely 100000% better in many different aspects.

Medication for sports??? No way.

Medication to help a child succeed in all aspects of life. You betchya.

 

[sevenatenine2]

I'm not opposed to medication and may talk to her doctor about it. I believe that she can (and does) focus at school but it takes a lot out of her and is very tiring and there is nothing left after school. She was so much better at gym in the summer when we has practice 8am-noon and no school.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I saw this today too. I struggle with the same issues you do as my dd has problems with focus. The quote angers me a little bit, it isn't always the parents. My dd is a great teammate, mentally rough and relilient but would sometimes be classified as uncoachable due to her ADHD issues. I almost posted today on the same issues due to the quote. It makes me feel like a faliure even though I work with her teachers, coaches and doctors on these issues so that she can be successfull.

okay, i gotta say something here. you should never feel like a failure about anything unless you don't love, feed and clothe your kids.

if you guys only knew me...and my parents...and i was the oldest...and if there was anyone who ever had add, adhd, gytu, buts, fomn, (just making some up I DID. so glad my parents didn't make a big deal out of anything and let me be me.

gymnastics is the best environment for "us" to be in. constantly moving...

 

[suebee]

sevenatenine2 said: ↑ "Your child's success of lack of success in sports does not indicate what kind of parent you are. But having an athlete that is coachable, respectful, a great teammate, mentally tough, resilient, and tries their best IS a direct reflection of your parenting."

No, it's not.

This statement makes the assumption that we are starting with children who are all born equal. We are born with different genes, different bodies and minds, and different physiology, including neurophysiology controlling ability to focus and motivate/get the big picture (executive function). Even amongst the "normals" so much variation is present, but particularly for kids "in the syndrome mix" innate abilities are not the same.

Having children with ADHD and ASD, I hear comments all the time about how "that behavior wouldn't fly in MY home", and "let me have them for a week and I'll whip them into shape". After I got over being offended by these kind of statements, I realized that they are actually coming from a stance of innocent ignorance on the subject of neurodevelopmental disorders and their accompanying behaviors. And now I just laugh, and think what kind of week they would have with my child and how much of an eye opener it would be.

My non-gymmie is on the autism spectrum. There is no way he could be on team. Heck, he often can't particpate in many extracurricular activities or school without significant issues. He's my older child, and I know the school thought a large part of the problem was me and how I parent him. They told me so on many occasions.

My gymmie is the opposite. I'm constantly told that she is a perfect role model, at school, at gym, pretty much everywhere she goes. I think their school was just so floored that she could actually also be my child, because she is so much unlike her brother. But she's obviously not on the autism spectrum and doesn't have his issues, and even though I parent them similiarly (although not the same, since they're different kids and have different needs), she's a totally different creature than he is.

It's kind of really sad how much I feel validated that dd shows that the problem with ds isn't me and my parenting.

 

[MILgymFAM]

It's kind of really sad how much I feel validated that dd shows that the problem with ds isn't me and my parenting.

I can really commiserate with this, except with gym rather than school. My YDD has always been a very heavy child, and my ODD very thin and strong. When ODD started gymnastics about two years after YDD, it seemed like everyone had a comment. People where always happy to profess shock that they were sisters, and a coach even said to me once that she "couldn't believe Lina was mine." When Caitie told her how healthy we ate, she had assumed Caitie was wrong, because it had to be the diet I was feeding her. She actually asked (and unfortunately is not the only person to do so) if I fed them different food. Some people will just never understand how many natural differences can exist, even within a family. Even is a family with great parenting.

 

[gymdog]

I'm pretty strict in that the practice generally is structured most of the time, but if we were in a line, I wouldn't be likely to send a kid home for the behaviors described, especially if they stopped after they were told to. If it was repeated maybe sitting out. I think you should try restructuring the practice to have the kids working more simultaneously either through stations or drills or exercises they do in their own spot on floor, and only cross tumble for 5min or so. This will benefit all the kids and give those with attention deficits less of a chance to fall behind or get distracted.

If we were in a line tumbling, it would be a more fun practice or free tumbling so unless it was dangerous I wouldn't really get worked up about vertical jumps.

 

[gymdog]

By the way, I don't think it's your fault. And anyone who hasn't spent significant time with children like this doesn't understand. They will rock your world. Some gyms won't take children like this, but we do and they are some of my best athletes without a doubt due to their energy level. They will be very motivated if given extra challenges and opportunities that stimulate their desire to go fast, spin, flip, bounce - they are seeking out these activities often because of their brain chemistry.

 

[aerials]

Thanks Dunno for your thoughts.

gymnastics is the best environment for "us" to be in. constantly moving...

I completly agree with the above statement. I don't know what I would do without gymnastics for my dd.

It's kind of really sad how much I feel validated that dd shows that the problem with ds isn't me and my parenting.

This is sad. I have seen this enough that I take one childs behavior with a grain of salt and give the parents the benefit of doubt.