Women Phasing out compulsories?

[BusyMomof2]

Each state is supposed to have a Score Chair that all scores are sent to--scores from sanctioned meets. We have one, I have run for that office in the past. Our state looks carefully at scores to make sure its done right (not saying they don't miss some, but they actively ask gyms for scores and have questioned our owner about transfers from out-of-state). If each state committee was doing the job properly, there would be a lot less gym owners circumventing getting the proper score-out scores.

There is a new rule this year that is going into effect in August that addresses moving back and forth between USAG DP and Xcel, AAU, NGA, etc. It is a step in the right direction, but I think there will be a lot of headaches trying to implement it this first year.

What is the new rule?

 

[Chocolate_Chip]

This thread is an interesting discussion. My daughter switched to Gold this past season, and did two years of level 4 prior to that. She had a really successful year and placed top 3 at States, and top 50 out of 700ish gymnasts. She regularly scored 37ish this season, and she is being asked to repeat Gold. She can easily do Platinum level routines and has all of the skills needed for Platinum. When I tell other parents she's doing Gold again, the general reaction has been "Why the heck isn't she doing level 6 or Platinum?!?!" - I realize parents don't have nearly the insight/knowledge that coaches do, but I'm worried that my daughter will get wind of people thinking she's "sandbagging".

When I looked at the scores for many of the gymnasts in her age group, I could see that many of them were on their 2nd, 3rd, and even some 4 years at Gold. I'm fine with her doing Gold again - she has expressed herself that she wants to repeat Gold, mostly because all of her friends are repeating gold as well.

Reading a lot of the comments has me thinking if I should be concerned in regards to how her gym is using XCEL? It's a small gym, and while they don't typically use XCEL to circumvent lower level compulsories, both DP and XCEL teams are small, and all train together.

Is it more common to repeat levels at XCEL since there are fewer levels than DP? If there are gyms that are "sandbagging" so to speak, I wonder if other gyms are falling in line and doing the same thing, simply because they feel the need to do so, in order to be competitive.

 

[Ncgymnastmom]

I was talking to a head coach recently about why her gym dropped developmental levels 1-5. She said the national trend is to focus on Xcel because there is less attrition in that program. Among many reasons, he said it's more like optionals because of the focus on individual strengths. She claimed that the national governing body is encouraging this shift because they see it as the inevitable future of gymnastics training. Do any other coaches out there know if this is accurate? Have you heard anything like this coming from USAG? Thanks

My daughter used to attend a gym that did levels 3-5 and then went to optionals. She was struggling massively in level 4 because she is not strong at bar and had to compete 2 years at level 4 even though she was great at the other 3 events. They then wanted to hold her back another year due to only getting 8.5s on bar in level 4 her second year but she is amazing at floor,beam and vault and can easily do level 7/8 skills. Her gym also didn’t work on upgrades at all besides during 2 months in the summer and only focused on routines all comp season so she was so bored and discouraged. Anyways we switched her to a gym that does xcel and then moves to optionals. She is absolutely thriving because she’s not stressed about hitting bar routines to move up and can work on upgraded skills all around. her bars have even improved massively since I think she had it in her head she would never move up at the old gym. I personally prefer xcel so kids like my daughter don’t get discouraged and quit due to not hitting all the requirements in one event. Also scoring is a bit more easy on them in excel so it really helps build confidence. I don’t see any downsides.

 

[Ncgymnastmom]

Is it no longer required to score out of levels 4 and 5? huh.

My daughters gym does xcel only instead of level 3-5 and you do have to test out of level 4/5 to get into level 6. They usually work on the 4/5 routines through the year and then do a in gym meet during summer to test out of both and move to 6. My daughter is in gold and is trying to test out of 5 next week so she can do level 6 this season.

 

[Milomom]

I just want to add that I think Xcel’s lower hours, flexible routine construction, and less stringent requirements are a great thing for the majority of gymnasts and I would never want that to change! A gym could run Xcel like DP with higher hours and more stringent gym-imposed requirements and that would adequately prepare gymnasts for optionals but it would ruin Xcel! I very much do not want to see the spirit of the Xcel program compromised.

This is how I feel too. I have 2 gymnasts - my older daughter moved to xcel gold after level 4 and if that hadn't been an option she probably would have quit. She wants less hours and the ability to have routines designed to her strengths. She had no interest in practicing 15+ hours a week that the optionals do -and she has no interest in competing at college. My younger daughter just finished level 4 and is moving to 6. She would do as many hours a week that they will let her. If all gyms move to xcel being a replacement for compulsories, then switching to optionals, they are going to lose a lot of gymnasts.

 

[3rd_time_around]

What is the new rule?

RULES & POLICIES: Recommendation to require any athlete who has prior competitive experience in the Development Program and then competes in a State meet under an alternative program (e.g., Xcel or another gymnastics organization) to submit a petition in order to re-enter the Development Program at Level 5 or higher.
● Levels 5–8: Petitions must be submitted to the State Administrative Committee (SAC).
● Levels 9–10: Petitions must be submitted to the Regional Administrative Committee (RAC).
MOTION: Kittia Carpenter (R5)
SECOND: Paige Roth (R4)

PASSED

 

[scb838]

RULES & POLICIES: Recommendation to require any athlete who has prior competitive experience in the Development Program and then competes in a State meet under an alternative program (e.g., Xcel or another gymnastics organization) to submit a petition in order to re-enter the Development Program at Level 5 or higher.
● Levels 5–8: Petitions must be submitted to the State Administrative Committee (SAC).
● Levels 9–10: Petitions must be submitted to the Regional Administrative Committee (RAC).
MOTION: Kittia Carpenter (R5)
SECOND: Paige Roth (R4)

PASSED

So is the motivation for this new rule to make it harder for someone to return to DP after moving to Xcel? Is it to encourage girls to stick it out and repeat a level instead moving to Xcel for a season with the plan of moving back to DP? Are these sorts of petitions ever denied?

 

[BusyMomof2]

RULES & POLICIES: Recommendation to require any athlete who has prior competitive experience in the Development Program and then competes in a State meet under an alternative program (e.g., Xcel or another gymnastics organization) to submit a petition in order to re-enter the Development Program at Level 5 or higher.
● Levels 5–8: Petitions must be submitted to the State Administrative Committee (SAC).
● Levels 9–10: Petitions must be submitted to the Regional Administrative Committee (RAC).
MOTION: Kittia Carpenter (R5)
SECOND: Paige Roth (R4)

PASSED

Interesting. How is this different than the petition into DP for gymnasts age 12 and up? Will a girl who has been in both programs but is now petitioning into DP after competing Xcel need two petitions? Seems like an administrative headache

 

[Lurker]

"prior competitive experience in the Development Program" does this mean any level or only level 4 since that is the first required level? Also this won't work for those that were always xcel and trying to transition over.

 

[Carly]

"prior competitive experience in the Development Program" does this mean any level or only level 4 since that is the first required level? Also this won't work for those that were always xcel and trying to transition over.

It must mean any DP level otherwise they would have to specify just level 4.

Yes, I agree that it won't work for those that were Xcel only. I would actually prefer it to be the opposite way so that gyms using Xcel to bypass compulsories have to petition to DP. I think Xcel is an excellent program but don't care for the gyms that have girls practicing tons of hours in bronze/silver/gold competing against low hour gyms that are not using it to bypass DP compulsories.

 

[Sebastian12]

So is the motivation for this new rule to make it harder for someone to return to DP after moving to Xcel? Is it to encourage girls to stick it out and repeat a level instead moving to Xcel for a season with the plan of moving back to DP? Are these sorts of petitions ever denied?

This rule just doesn’t make sense to me. I feel some angry intention behind it. Like triaging kids early on for xcel and DP and asking kids to stick it out if they still want to be “DP material”, minimizing the benefits that the temp transition into xcel can provide to some kids, their mental health and overall performance. I am so tired of this narrative.

 

[Carly]

This rule just doesn’t make sense to me. I feel some angry intention behind it. Like triaging kids early on for xcel and DP and asking kids to stick it out if they still want to be “DP material”, minimizing the benefits that the temp transition into xcel can provide to some kids, their mental health and overall performance. I am so tired of this narrative.

Yes. What is the reasoning behind the rule? A year of Xcel between DP levels could be great for a gymnast who is very strong in some events but not others and could really benefit from the flexibility of Xcel. I don't know how difficult the petition process for this case is but my dd's gym needed to petition her into a lower Xcel level when she switched because of injuries. It was not a difficult process and she was approved.

 

[raenndrops]

Yes. What is the reasoning behind the rule? A year of Xcel between DP levels could be great for a gymnast who is very strong in some events but not others and could really benefit from the flexibility of Xcel. I don't know how difficult the petition process for this case is but my dd's gym needed to petition her into a lower Xcel level when she switched because of injuries. It was not a difficult process and she was approved.

My reading of the rule is that it only affects gymnasts who were DP, then competed a state meet in another program.
Simple work-around ... don't go to Xcel State if they are going to go back to DP, especially if they made the minimum qualifying score in DP to move up to the next level.

The current petition process only allows gymnasts to petition to L7 or below, but the new one for former DP allows petitioning into Levels 5-10. This would allow a former DP who moved to Xcel to come back in a higher level, even if they aren't 12 years old yet, as long as they met the minimum age for the level.

There was some discussion regarding entry into the Development Program from alternative programs, but nothing was decided, so the current rules SHOULD remain in effect unless or until they come to some decision.

 

[Dahlialover]

This is so confusing! I can’t figure out what problem this is meant to solve. There must be a common scenario that this rule is meant to address but I don’t know what it is.

Is this for gymnasts who competed level 7 and then went Sapphire and now want to return as at level 9? Is this for gymnasts who competed level 2 when they were 6-years-old and then competed Xcel silver-platinum and now wants to return at level 6 at age 10 (without scoring out of 4)? Is this for gymnasts who competed level 9 and then got hurt and then competed Diamond and now want to return at level 8?

What’s the goal?

 

[NutterButter]

It might be to detract people from 'quitting' DP just to compete in another program for the sole purpose of 'winning' only to come back to DP the following season.

What I don't think is happening is a USAG committee sitting around in a room dreaming up ways to intentionally make it harder for kids to compete in whatever stream they want and/or need.

 

[Sebastian12]

My reading of the rule is that it only affects gymnasts who were DP, then competed a state meet in another program.
Simple work-around ... don't go to Xcel State if they are going to go back to DP, especially if they made the minimum qualifying score in DP to move up to the next level.

The current petition process only allows gymnasts to petition to L7 or below, but the new one for former DP allows petitioning into Levels 5-10. This would allow a former DP who moved to Xcel to come back in a higher level, even if they aren't 12 years old yet, as long as they met the minimum age for the level.

There was some discussion regarding entry into the Development Program from alternative programs, but nothing was decided, so the current rules SHOULD remain in effect unless or until they come to some decision.

It might be to detract people from 'quitting' DP just to compete in another program for the sole purpose of 'winning' only to come back to DP the following season.

What I don't think is happening is a USAG committee sitting around in a room dreaming up ways to intentionally make it harder for kids to compete in whatever stream they want and/or need.

If this is the interpretation, it even makes less sense…many gymnasts transition from DP to xcel was because of the burnout, not getting the skills, loss of love, injury…with no clear prediction of going back into DP or when, and they are even deprived of the pride of competing xcel state? That seems depressing…

 

[NutterButter]

No one is being deprived of anything! I think you and others want to assume the worst of USAG all the time.

 

[Dahlialover]

I think the meaning of the rule depends entirely on the criteria used to evaluate petitions. Someone thinks it is worth a volunteer’s time and effort to review these petitions, so there must be a problem that they are trying to solve. But what problem is that?

 

[CluelessGymMom]

This is an interesting thread. I didn't know XCEL was so frowned upon. I know very little about gymnastics and all of the rules, but at our gym everyone does XCEL at the lower levels to "try" competitive gymnastics. If the kid and the parents are still all-in post an XCEL season or two, and the kid shows an aptitude for the sport, they are given the option to switch tracks.

I personally have liked XCEL. While most of the girls on the team compete the same routine, a couple of the girls have had a slight modification to the routines, as needed, to allow them to be competitive throughout the year. By state, all girls who needed those modifications early on, improved and competed the same routines as everyone else. I love that about XCEL! Those girls didn't get turned away or held back because of one skill, and that allowed them to catch up!