WAG Private lesson for squat on?

[MILgymFAM]

No, it's not the long legs. Plenty of leggy kids get their squat on quickly. We had a kid make the same mistake while learning squat-ons this summer. She has it fine now (no privates, just refined it in practice). It is a fear issue, despite what she says. She is afraid of getting her hips high enough to squat on properly, because it will cause her more of a lean.

Yup, my DD is 5'5 and all leg, she got her squat on first try, no issues... It's gotta be something other than the legs.

 

[Turk]

Okay, so apparently it's not my legs that are the cause of my problems, but several coaches have told me that's what it is... I think I'm going to hang around this thread to see what the answer could be!

 

[gymdog]

I respect gymdogs opinion and I understand he feels it's a safety issue, but I don't happen to consider that a safety issue for my kids. Lots of kids learn it that way, and with some practice and patience they all seem to get it just fine. Can they trip when they first learn their squat on? Yes, I wish I had a dollar for every optional I've seen trip! Will she get hurt? Hopefully not if she has been taught properly what to do if that happens. All my girls learn as early as the class program how to do 'shins on', slip grip, and tuck and roll. Don't want to jinx myself, but not sure if in all my years I've had a girl get hurt on a squat on. Plenty at another gym I remember, but that's another story!

Well kids get hurt on this at gyms across the country all the time. You don't have to believe me, but it's not my opinion. Rick McCharles has covered this extensively as well. http://gymnasticscoaching.com/new/2007/02/the-most-dangerous-skill-in-gymnastics/

It's not like I don't have my kids learn squat ons. Obviously, there are drills and exercises. I'm glad that you seem to use these too. I don't feel "lots of kids learn it this way" if you mean one foot at a time. I consider that enough of a problem that they wouldn't be doing squat ons at all, but progressions. Still, by doing progressions such as the one in that linked video, I don't find that kids do that at all, much less lots of kids.

So, I don't agree with the way the coach is handling it, of course. As I said, it wouldn't even be an issue in my practice because if they were doing anything that could be remotely described as a shoot through, they'd be back on drills until they got it. If they're doing it like that they're almost definitely lifting their butt up into a position where a beginner is more likely to fall forward (since they'll need time and space to get their second foot on). A more piked on position is more precipitous for novices than getting into a true squat. They might be more likely to fall backwards but oh well. That's safer.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Tell her to pretend she is a mermaid, works for my kids, and rope.

 

[gymdog]

Tell her to pretend she is a mermaid, works for my kids, and rope.

Lol, going to steal that.

 

[iwannacoach]

......In your opinion, is this something that can be fixed in one hour of one-to-one time, a.k.a private lesson?

This is something that can be solved in a two minute burst of resolve and determination.

This sport isn't particularly easy, but then again it's not nearly as hard as many make it out to be.

The culture of "hard" is what it is because each skill's difficulty lies in the eye of the beholder. Think it's easy, do it the coach's way, and enjoy the progress.

 

[Gymsanity]

Well kids get hurt on this at gyms across the country all the time. You don't have to believe me, but it's not my opinion. Rick McCharles has covered this extensively as well. http://gymnasticscoaching.com/new/2007/02/the-most-dangerous-skill-in-gymnastics/

It's not like I don't have my kids learn squat ons. Obviously, there are drills and exercises. I'm glad that you seem to use these too. I don't feel "lots of kids learn it this way" if you mean one foot at a time. I consider that enough of a problem that they wouldn't be doing squat ons at all, but progressions. Still, by doing progressions such as the one in that linked video, I don't find that kids do that at all, much less lots of kids.

So, I don't agree with the way the coach is handling it, of course. As I said, it wouldn't even be an issue in my practice because if they were doing anything that could be remotely described as a shoot through, they'd be back on drills until they got it. If they're doing it like that they're almost definitely lifting their butt up into a position where a beginner is more likely to fall forward (since they'll need time and space to get their second foot on). A more piked on position is more precipitous for novices than getting into a true squat. They might be more likely to fall backwards but oh well. That's safer.

Seems like you may have taken offense to something I said, none was intended. After watching that clip from Rick, I can see why he/others thinks they are so dangerous. I found that squat on drill to be way too advanced/dangerous for beginners, but each coach has to make that decision for themselves and their kids. As far as peeling off the high bar, I hear of that all too often as I find many coaches, Rick included, setting the bars way too far apart for the athletes. I find it promotes the 'flying squirrel' at best and a peel at worst. At the end of the day, it's different coaches with different methods working towards a common goal.

 

[munchkin3]

I'm no coach, but I always felt it had a lot to do with Munch's shoulder and arm strength. Like a pressing issue. She always swings up to the squat on, very uncontrolled. The stronger girls can do much better controlled pressy squat ones. Does this even make sense?

 

[Muddlethru]

No, it's not the long legs. Plenty of leggy kids get their squat on quickly. We had a kid make the same mistake while learning squat-ons this summer. She has it fine now (no privates, just refined it in practice). It is a fear issue, despite what she says. She is afraid of getting her hips high enough to squat on properly, because it will cause her more of a lean.

Not a coach here either but putting my two cents anyway. Makes sense that it is a fear issue. In one's mind, putting one foot first is a "safety" net. Jumping with both feet they realize for a split second nothing is touching the bar. Then the coach yelling at her does not help and the pressure that everyone already has their squat on magnifies the problem. Let us know how she does with the private. She'll get it. Good luck.

 

[GymMomXcel]

My daughter struggles with this... For her it is the leaning over the bar needed to get your hips up. Fear issue. Not just squat on.. Higher casts, etc. I'm confident she will get it eventually!

 

[Ginger]

Thanks for all great responses!

I now believe it might be the fear of getting her hips high enough + pressing down on the bar, as Gymjunkie, Munchkin3 and 4theloveofsports said. When I think about it - her shoot thru was never great either during her L3 season. She never missed it or fell, but she almost always hit the bar with her foot. I think she feels safe and comfortable with her sloppy squat ons, the fear is what prevents her to do it better than this sloppy way.

As for the yelling - I am not here to judge. 'Yelling' is how my daughter described, but maybe the coach just raised her voice in order to be heard? That's what I told my daughter and she seemed to be more comfortable during last night's practice. I'll try to schedule a private for next week and hopefully it will work not only for the skill, but also for some coach-gymnast bonding.

Thanks again and I'll let you know.

 

[2G1B]

I agree that with this skill it is likely fear. My older DD had her kips before her squat on. Well, before she got her squat on *back*. She had her squat on and then got hurt on it. her right foot somehow didn't get on and instead the top of that foot got on the bar, then slipped and she rotated around the bar with her shin on it. She had a huge bruise and a burn from it. After that she wouldn't do the squat on again. For months. And months. The coaches tried backing off of it. They tried pushing her. They tried not mentioning it. They tried spotting. Nothing worked. She insisted that she just couldn't do it. She insisted that it wasn't that she was scared.

Finally the coach had a serious talk with her, pointed out that she hadn't done a squat on since she had gotten hurt and that it was a fear and DD just needed to overcome it. Apparently DD cried a bit. But then she asked that no one watch and she went over and tried it, got it on the second try and has had it since.

FWIW, she is also all legs. But it was totally a fear issue.

 

[Aero]

@2G1B | I had a moment like that once with a rec student a long time ago. Her mother had her do privates with me in addition to her normal once a week class in an effort to get her standing back handspring. This girl was actually pretty good, and it was very clear she could do it on her own. During our second lesson I got very serious and I went right up to her, face to face, and I said, "listen, I know you can do this skill. You've been able to do this skill for a while now. We've broken through all the walls, except this last one, and it's your job to break through it. I want you to take your time, concentrate on what you need to do in the skill, and then do it. If you don't commit and at least try it by yourself, I'll end this lesson right now." She instantly got very serious too, and stood there for a few seconds very still and really focused. She then threw the back handspring on her own for the first time and landed it beautifully. She was all smiles for a while after that! I'll never forget that day. Interestingly, I haven't had a situation like it since, not even with my team girls. It definitely worked for her, though.

 

[Ginger]

So an update. She had a private this week. Went thru all the drills beautifully, but when it came to the 'put it together' moment, it all fell apart again.
It is definitely in her mind.
At least she is able to keep the knees together now. But her shins go apart in some 90 degrees angle. I personally think it must be harder to do it this way than to keep the feet together.
I'll probably give it some time, and if she doesn't improve in two weeks on so, we'll go for a private #2. Or should I be concerned about the muscle memory/bad habit building up?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Make her do it but only step on the bar with the other foot.

 

[Ginger]

@coachp, what do you mean? Like, since she places her right foot on the bar first (she is righty), should I tell her to try to do it with her left foot going first?

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

@coachp, what do you mean? Like, since she places her right foot on the bar first (she is righty), should I tell her to try to do it with her left foot going first?

I haven't read through this whole thread but my first thought reading this post is that YOU shouldn't be telling her anything.

Not to be rude AT ALL please don't take it that way, but my opinion is leave it to the coaches and say nothing about the skill ever. As the parent I have learned from experience when a gymnast has a block or whatever on a skill, the best thing we can do is smile, never mention it and talk about school. Our favourite topics in the car these days are, the show we are watching this weekend and how weird it is that hamburgers don't have ham in them.

It will happen.

 

[gymdog]

So an update. She had a private this week. Went thru all the drills beautifully, but when it came to the 'put it together' moment, it all fell apart again.
It is definitely in her mind.
At least she is able to keep the knees together now. But her shins go apart in some 90 degrees angle. I personally think it must be harder to do it this way than to keep the feet together.
I'll probably give it some time, and if she doesn't improve in two weeks on so, we'll go for a private #2. Or should I be concerned about the muscle memory/bad habit building up?

So like her knees are together but her feet are apart?

 

[Ginger]

Yes. From knees up, her legs seem to be glued together, from knees down, they are VERY apart.

 

[OrangeArt]

Our favourite topics in the car these days are, the show we are watching this weekend and how weird it is that hamburgers don't have ham in them.

Okay, wayyyy off topic, but how funny is it, my daughter and I have literally had the hamburger conversation twice in the past month. And I'm sure you probably know, but its because they come from Hamburg Germany, or at least that's what Google told us