WAG Progression on learning giants

[htimcj]

What is the progression for learning giants? What are the typical problems that creep up? Is this one of those skills like the kip that you get and lose it and get it and lose it? Just wondering since DD is starting to learn them. At our gym the general progression is strap bar with spot, then no spot, then pit bar with spot and no spot then the real bar. Right now DD needs help getting over the first time but then can swing around 3+ times with no problem. Is this how it typically works? She just gets a bit of a tap and then she's off to the races and around and around she goes. I haven't really watched anyone learn this skill from start to finish and don't know what to expect.

 

[GymCoachR2]

I'm a big proponent of a 3/4 giant approach. Giants on strap are great for confidence, tap timing etc. But when it comes to putting it on a real bar, I much rather kids start doing 3/4 giants with a heavy spot.

You can see examples of this in the first video:
Little kids, big giants! | Swing Big!

I think this helps maintain the correct shapes (ie. not arching over the top), and helps kids shift at the right time as opposed to shifting early which causes bent arms and impedes pirouetting down the line.

That's just my personal opinion though.

 

[htimcj]

She started with those on the strap. She called them medium giants She named them baby giants, medium giants and big giants

 

[JBS]

Here is a thread...

Link Removed

 

[iwannacoach]

Let's assume everyone coaching optional bars knows what they're doing and has a 95% success rate in teaching "ready and capable kids" a giant in a 6 month time frame. Let's also assume you gathered up 10 of these able coaches, and watched them teach giants from square one to the finished product. You'd likely see a variety of....... drills emphasizing different preferences, hear vocabulary used that's specific to the coach, and notice different time spans spent on certain stages, but still see each of them get their kids to the finish line in an acceptable amount of training time.

While the skill remains a constant there are variables that come into play, so the bottom line isn't a movement that's identical with every kid, but rather that each of them finds a way to harvest enough value from their best "variables" to compensate for the weakest of their variables. The reality, therefore, is that you'll see many slight variations of giants, even in kids coached by the same person.

I don't know if that answers the question for you, but there it is.

 

[JBS]

Let's assume everyone coaching optional bars knows what they're doing and has a 95% success rate in teaching "ready and capable kids" a giant in a 6 month time frame. Let's also assume you gathered up 10 of these able coaches, and watched them teach giants from square one to the finished product. You'd likely see a variety of....... drills emphasizing different preferences, hear vocabulary used that's specific to the coach, and notice different time spans spent on certain stages, but still see each of them get their kids to the finish line in an acceptable amount of training time.

While the skill remains a constant there are variables that come into play, so the bottom line isn't a movement that's identical with every kid, but rather that each of them finds a way to harvest enough value from their best "variables" to compensate for the weakest of their variables. The reality, therefore, is that you'll see many slight variations of giants, even in kids coached by the same person.

I don't know if that answers the question for you, but there it is.

This is probably one of the best answers that I have ever read.

Love the 3/4 heavily spotted and shaped giants...but we definitely don't teach all our kids this way. We have had many kids with the body of a "willow tree" on our team...my arm and shoulder yell at me every time I try the 3/4 giant route with these kids. These "willow" kids grow very quickly and it is always a struggle to keep them coming over the top correctly...but if I forced them all into the 3/4 giant route...my arm would be destroyed...and many of them would never have made it...I just can't get them the reps that it will take them to get giants that way. Once these "willow tree" kids get older and develop...you'd be surprised how much power their length can generate...you'll be happy to still have them in your optional program.

 

[GymCoachR2]

Totally valid, and I completely agree. With the willow kids I normally prefer a bent kneed giant route, straight all the way around until the upswing when they bend.

 

[htimcj]

Thanks for all the replys. I never really thought about how kids might do the skill a bit different. I have noticed already the differences with the style of coaching. One coach gets up right next to the strap bar and gives a slight tap right at the top on the first go around. The other coach stands at the bottom and taps at the bottom of the first swing.
As for shape wise she is a bit of a willow with really long legs but only weighs 60 lbs at 10 so it isn't too hard to fling her around

Again thanks, I just had know idea how one went about learning the skill having never watched the progression.

 

[iwannacoach]

Just turn em over and blow right by the "hold" (in the video) position. Once they start getting the idea that giants go around, not up, they be a lot easier to work with. Rule number 1..... if you make a mistake, it will be that of having too much hollow held for too long. You're a good coach, so tell them to hold up their end of the "bargain" while you live up to a promise to keep them safe during their efforts to get it done the right way, or at least the "right" wrong way.

 

[iwannacoach]

Totally valid, and I completely agree. With the willow kids I normally prefer a bent kneed giant route, straight all the way around until the upswing when they bend.

Good that!

Just make sure the kid are rolling their hips, just like a back roll, as they work the upswing and support (shouldn't be one, but...) phase.

 

[wallflower]

DD recently learned giants so this is fresh on my mind from a parents perspective. It was nothing like the kip which took forever and was frustrating to watch. I *think*, though I have no actual knowledge, that having a good baby giant really helped DD pick up giants quickly. She first practiced them on the low bar with a spot. I remember her first day the coach saying she was pretty much doing them alone. She then went to the pit bar and with a coach standing there and helping her cast and get situated in the handstand she could do them alone. It took another week or so for her to have the courage to cast and do them without someone at least standing there. From the first day on the low bar to completely alone on the pit bar was maybe 2.5 weeks. Then it was another 2 weeks maybe to put them on the real bar and add the flyaway. Needless to say it was WAY faster than I expected. Once she had them on the real bar she never missed them. It was nothing like a kip which I remember taking like 9 months to really learn and even then she would still miss some or have bent arms. I'd have to say giants were the fastest skill she's ever learned on bars. I think all the pieces were likely already in place. One of the things her coach told me the first day was that she really understood the necessary shape and the hollow arch action.

Oddly she never really used the strap bar. She does now to work front giants.

So you never know, it could come quicker than you think.

 

[htimcj]

I am glad to hear that it isn't like the kip that comes and goes and comes and goes. Her coaches seem to think she'll get it pretty quickly because she has a really nice tap swing and good form. So far so good.

 

[MaryA]

I am glad to hear that it isn't like the kip that comes and goes and comes and goes.

I don't know about that. Both girls on DD's level 7 team who started the season with their giants lost them again. One lost them fairly early on in the season. The other competed them most of the season, even going on to compete level 8. Then she had an injury. I think (though I would not swear to it) that she got them back after her injury but then lost them again. Possibly she never got them back after her injury. Anyway, she ended up competing free hips at level 7 States, even though she had qualified for Level 8 states. My daughter now has her giants (only on the pit bar, last I heard) and the two girls that got them first still don't have them back. Also, the mother of one of our level 8's was saying that it took her daughter two years of getting her giants and losing them again before she finally got them for good. Not to be Debbie Downer, and hopefully your daughter (and mine!) get their giants "for keeps", but I don't think there are any guarantees.

 

[iwannacoach]

Kids will "lose" giants for a few reasons. I think the most common mistake is they try to swing up to the handstand, and that's a deal breaker because the action used to support a handstand will kill their swing every time. If they want to swing to the handstand and still make it over, they have to swing with more conviction and wait a bit longer to give them "enough" to get to *and* through the handstand.

The skill has a lot in common with clear hips, and just as clear hips evolve gradually, from a horizontal finish, to a handstand finish, so too should giants.

 

[vagymmomma]

One other thing I would add is that once they "get" giants, there's generally a decent amount work to get the right shape. There were some girls on DD's team that had giants most of the season, but the shape was still archy or they would bend their knees to get an extra tap. Like many skills in gymnastics -- it definitely evolves over time. Even mine who went from doing giants once on the strap bar to the regular bar in 2 practices took a good 6 months to get a really nice shape. They're really purdy now.

 

[gymmomtoo]

My oldest daughter "got" her giants one late summer day when her coach told her if she did them on the competition bars (she had just gotten them on the single high bar), he'd let all the Optionals end practice at noon and buy them all pizza for lunch. He was more than a little shocked when she got up there and did then, but he followed through on his promise.

She then "lost" her giants for a good 6-9 mos! Competed her first year of level 7 without them. Once she found them again, they stayed though!

 

[htimcj]

Well, it sounds like I will just have to hope that once she gets them they will stick around

 

[BarCoach]

In my opinion the 3/4 giant minimizes losing the skill. It bypasses the handstand and reaches a tap in order to get over the bar. Then the gymnast can work on opening the shoulder angle to reach handstand. That's how I've taught them and it has worked for me.

 

[htimcj]

In my opinion the 3/4 giant minimizes losing the skill. It bypasses the handstand and reaches a tap in order to get over the bar. Then the gymnast can work on opening the shoulder angle to reach handstand. That's how I've taught them and it has worked for me.

She has been doing a lot of 3/4 giants. The warm up is a couple of good high swings, then baby giants, then a bunch of 3/4 giants and then giants with a spot or someone standing right there.