School says no

[toddletts]

Hi, My daughter is in year 3 and is currently doing 12 hours a week training. her gym is really pleased with her and want her to take an afternoon out of school for training in addition to this. However, at present the governors are not authorising it, despite the fact that schools are supposed to be promoting sport. I anticipated that the school would agree to it for a set period and then review, but at present it is just a no. She currently has 100% attendance and we have offered to cover any work missed. Has anyone else encountered this problem and, if so, was there anything that you could do?

Thanks,

Sarah

 

[Learning Parent GB]

I haven't come across this for sports purposes. However, I do know that schools are allowed to enter into arrangements for flexi-schooling. That is the best term to google I would think, and although you are not going to be home educating full time I would imagine that homeschool groups will be well placed to advise you and to be up on the legalities.On a practical note, is there no way to increase the hours without missing school?

 

[Faith]

Why do they need her to take the afternoon off if she's only doing 12-16 hours? I would think that could fit around school time with no issue?

What are your/her/the clubs expectations for her? Are they expecting her to start elite track competition next year? Level 3 (b.2004) or Level 4 (b.2005)?

If I were the school I'd only be allowing kids who are being elite tracked out of school. Otherwise where do you draw the line- if you're allowing a club gymnast out of school, you have to allow the tennis players/footballers/swimmers/cyclists/judoka's out too, regardless of level, ability or future achievements.

I think all you can do is ask the gym if they have a plan for her over the next few years, and why they want her afternoon training. If they have specific aims for her which will require doing more training than can be done easily around school, or they need time with the coach in an unoccupied gym to reach those goals, then can request a meeting with the school head. Outline her potential and future in the sport, making the point that it could be considered special or exceptional needs (which I think makes a whole lot of difference with the school as they have to provide for gifted and talented children in they way they do any special needs child). If they still refuse I'd go back to the gym and see what they say- they must have come across it before and will know if there's any point escalating to the LEA or whoever. Also ask the school under what circumstances they would allow it, if any.

Most athletes don't need to take time out of school until they are training around 20 hours a week. Over that and the late nights/tiredness/lack of downtime will start to impact on school anyway so it's in everyone's best interest to allow some flexibility...

 

[Flossyduck]

My daughter was asked to train one afternoon in the week too. She was year 2 at the time, she's year 3 now. She is an elite track gymnast and was training for level 4 when we were asked.

The reason we were given, is that the gym is completely empty, other than the elite girls. They have total run of the place and freedom to move around the equipment, without disrupting other classes. It also allows them to get a double session in, which apparently has certain benefits.

Not all the girls were able to do it, so at first I said no. In fact our school were very supportive and didn't have a problem with it. We were told by the gym that if there was a problem they would happily speak to the school on her behalf to explain why they wanted her there, but the school were fine. After a while, when she was one of only two who didn't go in, I let her go and she does actually really enjoy it.

I think it would depend a lot on the level and the end goal. Like Faith said, this would only normally be asked of elite track girls and you would presumably know if that was what she was training by now? She'd be doing compulsory levels and training level 3 or 4, which you don't normally get to without noticing. Anything else and it would be completely unnecessary at her age as hundreds of girls manage to do very well at national grades and regional grades without skipping school.

Ask the gym what she will be training and why they need her in during the school day. Find out what lesson she would miss at school (PE would be good and that's what my dd misses) and see if the gym can talk to the school. Its not he same as flexi-schooling. That is a completely different system of schooling that the school would have to offer and if they don't (and very few are set up to offer that) it means changing schools. In a regular school day goes down as 'off-site' educational activities and the school can do that, but only if they think it can be justified. Anything other than elite track and you might struggle. Elite track and there's wriggle room, but you need the gym to engage with the school.

Good luck.

 

[Jenny]

By law you are entitled to flexi school in the UK. Your school may tell you that you are not but homeschool/ flexischool groups will give you the information if you want it. Schools must accommodate it by law. Although this is not true flexischooling it is a way round it if your school is not keen. You can just inform them that you are going to do it and they will not longer be attending school for Friday afternoons or whatever. Again the support of homeschool / flexischool groups will be helpful.

If they tell you it affects their absence rates it doesn't. They can put it down as 'educated off site' or 'approved sporting activity'

Faith children are often taken out of school here for other sports at varying levels. Off hand I can remember diving and swimming, tennis (all early morning training with a late start to school varying from 9.30 to 11.00) . I also remember children doing an afternoon of ballet once or twice a week. All at Primary school. Not all these children were 'elite' but all showed promise. I am sure at Flossy's gym not all the children missing school for an afternoon actually end up doing compulsory 4. Some probably end up even competing club grades which seems ridiculous but the gyms take a chance.

I can see the benefits of both staying in school and having school time training.

 

[Flossyduck]

I'm sorry, but it's not correct to say that schools are obliged to accommodate flexi-schooling by law. You are legally allowed, under the uk system, to arrange flexi-schooling for your child BUT no individual school is required to allow it in their school. It's entirely at the discretion of the governors and head-teacher and they can ask the LEA for their opinion, but they can say no. If they say no, you have to find a school which can accommodate it.

"The Legal Position
Flexi schooling is a legal option should the parent be able to arrange the agreement of
the head teacher of the school at which s/he is registered.
It is an offence for a parent to fail to ensure that a child of compulsory school age
attends regularly at the school at which s/he is registered. However the 1996 Education
Act states:
"The child shall not be taken to have failed to attend regularly at the school by reason of
his absence from the school (a) with leave" Section 444 (3)
In practice this means the Head teacher. To arrange flexi schooling therefore you should
prepare a proposal and set up a meeting with the head teacher. Whether or not it is
allowed is entirely up to the head teachers discretion."

The above quote is from the UK Home Education Org.


And it's also not correct to speculate that some of the girls at dd's group didn't go on to compete compulsory 4. As soon as a girl moves from the elite track to the grades they move to a different group, which never requires them to train in school hours. The gym is very firmly against skipping school for any other competitive route and I have to say that I can't see why is would be necessary. I work part time for BG and I'm not aware of any of the major clubs which require it for non-elite girls and I'm surprised if smaller clubs do.

All that said, I don't know if the OP's dd is on the elite track, she may be. If she is I'd say it's up to her if she wants to miss an afternoon, as we do. I'm only responding because I want to make sure they have the right information about their rights and other people's experiences when deciding what to do and it is something we have direct experience of and knowledge about, so hopefully can help.

 

[Faith]

There is a club I've heard of which has girls take an afternoon off to train. As far as I know these are non-elite, I know one is 10 years old and has so far only competed in her grade 14 having started the gym last year. It's not an elite club - only one or two may do compulsories if they find a very talented child. It's a busy gym so the main reason I can think of for doing it is they are trying to do as many sessions as possible, so are cramming loads of rec in after school and getting team kids in during school hours...

Apparently the schools are fine with it as they get some sort of brownie points for allowing it. I suppose it depends on the local LEA and the school and it's OFSTED report. I also suppose it depends on their understanding of the sport- if they've not had a request like that before and they hear a year 3 kid needs more gymnastics training, they may be thinking "ooh, good at gymnastics= olympics" without having further information..

I know some schools are so obsessed with OFSTED and getting their outstanding rating that they like to tick all the attendance and academic boxes, and sport is way down the list.

.

 

[toddletts]

My daughter is not doing any compulsory grades and has only been in the competition squad since September. She seems to be progressing through the groups well, though. I think the reason the gym asks some of the children from the higher groups to train a little during school time is so that they can work in a smaller group and with the whole gym to themselves. I think it also enables them to do a double session.
The school have authorised someone to do the same a few years back and the Head seems to be in agreement, but the governors don't seem to have come across it before and so are uneasy.

 

[Jenny]

I'm sorry, but it's not correct to say that schools are obliged to accommodate flexi-schooling by law. You are legally allowed, under the uk system, to arrange flexi-schooling for your child BUT no individual school is required to allow it in their school. It's entirely at the discretion of the governors and head-teacher and they can ask the LEA for their opinion, but they can say no. If they say no, you have to find a school which can accommodate it.

"The Legal Position
Flexi schooling is a legal option should the parent be able to arrange the agreement of
the head teacher of the school at which s/he is registered.
It is an offence for a parent to fail to ensure that a child of compulsory school age
attends regularly at the school at which s/he is registered. However the 1996 Education
Act states:
"The child shall not be taken to have failed to attend regularly at the school by reason of
his absence from the school (a) with leave" Section 444 (3)
In practice this means the Head teacher. To arrange flexi schooling therefore you should
prepare a proposal and set up a meeting with the head teacher. Whether or not it is
allowed is entirely up to the head teachers discretion."

The above quote is from the UK Home Education Org.


And it's also not correct to speculate that some of the girls at dd's group didn't go on to compete compulsory 4. As soon as a girl moves from the elite track to the grades they move to a different group, which never requires them to train in school hours. The gym is very firmly against skipping school for any other competitive route and I have to say that I can't see why is would be necessary. I work part time for BG and I'm not aware of any of the major clubs which require it for non-elite girls and I'm surprised if smaller clubs do.

All that said, I don't know if the OP's dd is on the elite track, she may be. If she is I'd say it's up to her if she wants to miss an afternoon, as we do. I'm only responding because I want to make sure they have the right information about their rights and other people's experiences when deciding what to do and it is something we have direct experience of and knowledge about, so hopefully can help.

It must vary by region then Flossy because In our area I know personally of more than one school that has been forced to comply with flexi schooling against the wishes of governors and head teachers by the LEA. It wasn't for gymnastics but for personal choice.

I also know like Faith of some girls that miss school but are not doing compulsory grades. I have also personally come across girls competing grade 13 who miss school to train weekly. Slight overkill but maybe they just weren't good enough for compulsory 4 in the end.

I don't have any strong feelings one way or another. I think it is fine at primary school but High school maybe is different.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

When pink and fluffy was at her old gym she used to go Wednesday afternoons 1-5. This was mainly as she couldn't cope with the hours they wanted her to train later on on a Friday night. She was only 7 and the school was quite happy to put it down as off site learning - mind you his daughter does gym so he was very sympathetic. Now she trains less hours and is older so its not an issue and she attends school full time.

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[meeeshymoo]

My dd goes to gym one afternoon a week, school couldn't be more accommodating. However now she is in senior school, it depends on her timetable. This year has been ok as missing a library session and art, both made up easily.
We will see what September brings, if its core subjects she will not take the time out.

Has been useful as they tend to use these sessions to target weaker areas. School mark her down as approved sporting activity.

 

[toddletts]

Thanks guys. School seem quite sympathetic, but governors not so. We will see what happens in september. She isn't doing compulsory grades so I guess it doesn't matter either way.