WAG Scratched meet - am I overreacting?

[cbifoja]

I hate it when ANYONE sends information verbally through a young child.

Agreed because then I get it filtered through a 10YO with ADD who tells me what she wishes the coach said!

 

[Muddlethru]

Like everyone else I would be very upset and support all the posts above that indicate the timeliness and inappropriateness of the way the information was communicated.

However, could the coach have been telling your daughter for weeks or months to either put in more effort, or do certain things that your daughter may not be doing? Could your daughter may have seemed not to be listening to the coach? I know our coach "threatens" for lack of a better word, to scratch a gymnast from a meet weeks or months before a meet if the gymnast does not get a skill, improve their attitude etc. And he has scratched girls off meets day(s) before. Regardless, if the coach had this problem, he/she should have warned you in advance of the possibility of scratching a meet if things don't change.

 

[flippin out]

I agree with the other posters......while it's not unheard of to scratch an athlete right before the meet.....it's how this was handled that I would be livid about.

I can't wait to hear how this weekend went for you and both of your girls

 

[gracyomalley]

Agree with everyone that communication through the 8 year old is the first problem, then honest open and positive communication with parents the second (as in "I know we both have your DD best interests in mind and as her coach I am doing XYZ because...."), and that the comment about scoring 3s is absolute poppycock......DD's first meet as an old L5 she only made it over one vault - with spot and scored a 5.5, fell on beam and missed her dismount, and still scored a 7.....and scratched bars - she and I knew ahead of time that she would need to get her kip or she would scratch...she was 8, and coach communicated clearly and in a positive fashion with her AND me for weeks ahead. Oh, and she was scoring high 8s 2 meets later....which never would have happened had she simply had to scratch everything...her form and attitude were never an issue but still - 3s just don't happen!

I realize that the gym you are currently at is convenient and affordable, and you feel this coach is skilled. This is of course important in youth sports. However, speaking from ugly personal experience, the things that feel "off" are in fact often "off". It is not important that your gym be the "top" or the coach be the "best", but it is important that they be individuals your children can look up to and learn from - and I'm not talking about gym skills here! Yes, its important for a coach to be able to safely coach kids and ideally for kids to be at a gym that can coach through high level optionals - but as 8 year olds get older they do start absorbing more and more of those "coach conversations" and YOU need to know that what is being said and done is appropriate. Certainly your YDD may not be ready to compete L4 at the gyms expected standard - when DD moved gyms as an optional she had to learn that the new gym held much higher expectations than her old one - and it didn't matter that she was winning often with her old skills - they expected new ones. However, it was done in a very supportive and positive way - and with great communication both to her and I. High standards does not mean poor communication and negativity. A kid can be motivated in many ways, and a confident, honest coach will be up front with you about all of this. What's more, if your DD was truly struggling with effort/attitude "beyond what would be expected for an 8 year old" then a conference with the parents would have been in order weeks ago - after all, they pay the bills and are the ones raising the kid!

I would try to get through the next few weeks in a positive fashion. Encourage your older child to be supportive of her little sister but go out and do her best. Speak with the coach/owner about the issues of communication and any ways you can help avoid this kind of situation. Politely demand to meet with coaches if there are issues with your children. Encourage your YDD to put her heart into her work outs, or to simply be respectful and have fun, but accept that that attitude may lead to scratching, etc.

And seriously look at other gyms in the area. You do not want your kids spending upwards of 20 hours a week in the environment you describe - if the coaches treat parents this way you can bet they are not always being great role models for the kids.

 

[COz]

Double-like @gracyomalley

Re: kids delivering messages
Our group of 6-8 year olds were given a message to deliver.
Out of 14, 2 passed the message on. 1 confirmed that she may have been told to pass on that message. The rest had no idea.
Now we know which kids to check with

 

[Ginger]

Again, thanks for all the support.
My ODD did quite well yesterday. She didn't pull any big scores, but was solid in 8s on all events with AA close to 34 - not bad considering she didn't have most of the "big L4 skills" three months ago. She got two medals and shared with her sister - which made me even more proud than her performance.
The owner wrote back the night before meet. She claimed the option of scratching my YDD off meet was something she and the coach discussed for several weeks. Yeah, and nobody bothered to tell us. She also mentioned the possibility that my YDD might be put back in L3, and - as I suspected - it was obviously the main reason why they didn't allow her to compete yesterday. But it is definitely not an option for us, not only because it would be devastating for my YDD self- esteem, but also because my DS is in MAG and our boys and girls have the meets scheduled for the same weekends, so we don't want to have our daughters in two different sessions, especially when there is really no valid reason for it (if she was missing some of the L4 skills or couldn't perform them safely, it would be different story).

 

[lhmom]

The owner wrote back the night before meet. She claimed the option of scratching my YDD off meet was something she and the coach discussed for several weeks. Yeah, and nobody bothered to tell us.

This is what I would be angry about. Although we sometimes struggle with communication, DD's HC would never leave something like this until the day before the meet or have my daughter relay the message to me. If there were problems, your daughter's coach should've been communicating with you several weeks ago that they were contemplating this move. At least then you could've been preparing your younger DD for this possibility. I hope your younger daughter is doing ok and congrats to your older DD!

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I'm glad your older DD had a good meet! How sweet that she shared her medals!

Just playing devils advocate here for a moment.... And coming from the viewpoint that the gym and coaches have the gymnasts' best interest at heart.... If someone was told they needed to change levels at our gym, their choice would be to either accept that and make the best of it or leave and go elsewhere. Level placement is up to the coaches and not the parents, regardless of inconvenience.
we have a couple of girls right now who have been training with one group and as season is approaching, it has become clear that they actually don't quite have what it takes for that level, even though the coaches have given them every chance possible to get there. Having to tell someone they have to move back down a level is not something most coaches take lightly, it doesn't feel good for anyone involved..!
So, again I implore you to go in with an open mind as to what will be best for your DD in the long run.
A serious lack of effort and coachability is NOT a trivial matter and would definitely be grounds for someone either not progressing or being moved down a level here.


I do feel for you on the lack of communications though. As a coach, this situation is definitely one *I* would have discussed with the parents several weeks ago!!!

I sincerely hope you can have a meaningful discussion with her coaches, find out where they are coming from and what they see is best for your child and come to a good solution!

 

[Ginger]

@SurpriseGymMom - I understand your point. But the bad communication in this gym caused us so much unnecessary stress already (this was not the first time) that we are considering the option of leaving. So what I want to do now is to explain my point of view why I don't want her to be moved down (devastating for her self-esteem, hard for us as a family...) and see what happens. If they decide to move her down (and we need to know by the end of week before another meet fee is due), we won't stay.

 

[Orangesoda]

"She also mentioned the possibility that my YDD might be put back in L3, and - as I suspected - it was obviously the main reason why they didn't allow her to compete yesterday."

There's so much discussion about the gym and their lack of communication and whatnot. I think we all agree that they are in the wrong, but even if you decide to leave this gym, the important piece for YOU to delve into with your daughter is WHY she is being held back. Did you ever really figure this out? Is it possible it's easier to discuss the gym's/coaches failures than it is to analyze your dd's training struggles? Because those are going to follow you to your next gym even if you leave, right? They didn't just pick your dd's name out of a hat. She had some behavior, which after months of warnings, was not changed. Please read this with a spirit of good intention. I'm trying to be helpful.

 

[Ginger]

I know why she struggles. She doesn't focus on her form. She focus one moment and she looks beautifully, then she falls apart again. I actually start to wondering if it is really just lack of focus or maybe she has some underlying issues that prevent her from keeping tight?
But, she is not messing around or talking back or not listening to the coach. Her older sister says the coach gives her corrections and she doesn't do them, so maybe it can be considered 'not listening'. But the question is, does she even understand what the coach is saying?
And, on the other note - she is one of the girls who pick up skills easily, and when she gets them, they stick. I saw girls struggling with kip for months and then again for months before it stuck. She got it, and it was consistent since.
So, yes, I think I know where she struggles. And, if I could discuss this matter with her coach as I am discussing it here, I would not consider leaving and I could probably even live with one more year of L3.

 

[gymdog]

Does she have a straight arm kip? Clean tumbling? You can always get an evaluation at another gym, but keep in mind they may place her at level 3 as well.

 

[Jenny]

It really is not to much to ask that you can discuss these things with them.

And if they were discussing pulling her out several weeks ago then they could have withdrawn her and got you the money back for the meet back then. You should have been brought into the conversation back then.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Wait, so your older dd (who is more advanced than your younger dd). Got a 33 ( u said almost a 34). The owner wants to move your younger dd to l3 . And you don't want to out of convenience???? And for fear that it may demoralize her????? So no matter when they would of brought this up, you would of objected to not moving up, based on your reasons anyways? Well. The focus of this thread just changed.....

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I know why she struggles. She doesn't focus on her form. She focus one moment and she looks beautifully, then she falls apart again. I actually start to wondering if it is really just lack of focus or maybe she has some underlying issues that prevent her from keeping tight?
But, she is not messing around or talking back or not listening to the coach. Her older sister says the coach gives her corrections and she doesn't do them, so maybe it can be considered 'not listening'. But the question is, does she even understand what the coach is saying?
And, on the other note - she is one of the girls who pick up skills easily, and when she gets them, they stick. I saw girls struggling with kip for months and then again for months before it stuck. She got it, and it was consistent since.
So, yes, I think I know where she struggles. And, if I could discuss this matter with her coach as I am discussing it here, I would not consider leaving and I could probably even live with one more year of L3.

Okay, we'll that's more reasonable and a great explanation of what she is doing. Could be ADD, but you would probably see that in other areas of life. I have cleaned up some seriously messy kids in my life time, sometimes they need a kick in the pants and sometimes well,,, they just don't really want to be there. Hard to say.

 

[Jenny]

I agree there is quite a lot going on here but it remains unacceptable to tell an 8 year old they are dropped the day before a meet without even mentioning it to the parents.

Communication is obviously a problem at this gym. Who does what level and whatever seems like a whole another can of worms. If the child is not going to score up to the gyms requirements then she shouldn't compete. Fair enough.

 

[Ginger]

@coachp - Really so bad for the first meet? This is not one of the gyms where the girls have to have all their skills before the summer uptraining begins to do that level. As I mentioned, my DD didn't have many of her skills just a few months ago. Actually some of her teammates didn't have all the skills for the next level even a few weeks ago, and one of our optionals was even allowed to compete with a missing skill. So, again, while I understand 34 would be not-good enough score for many gyms and such a girl wouldn't be good enough to compete L4, our L4 barely even hit 34 thorough last season, and were moved to L5 anyway.
One thing I noticed at the meet - we were there last year, and the host gym had girls competing L3 that were obviously not ready. Many of them scored under 30. However by the end of season, they all were 3 - 5 points up. And doing L4 this year (my YDD would probably do better than most of them if allowed to compete). So, I think this is a gym that cares about kids. And for me, as an potential customer (it is 2 hours away so clearly not option for us, unfortunately) it is a positive message.

 

[Ginger]

Okay, we'll that's more reasonable and a great explanation of what she is doing. Could be ADD, but you would probably see that in other areas of life. I have cleaned up some seriously messy kids in my life time, sometimes they need a kick in the pants and sometimes well,,, they just don't really want to be there. Hard to say.

Thanks. I don't think it is ADHD. She doesn't struggle in school. I will probably create a thread about this topic.

 

[bookworm]

@SurpriseGymMom - . So what I want to do now is to explain my point of view why I don't want her to be moved down (devastating for her self-esteem, hard for us as a family...) and see what happens. If they decide to move her down (and we need to know by the end of week before another meet fee is due), we won't stay.

I would not use either of those points as an argument for keeping her Level 4 and not moving her back to Level 3 because, to me, the issue is that she has her level 4 skills and should compete Level 4....and she's not "young" either to be competing level 4 ...at 8 yrs old she could be competing as an 8...

With all the communication (or lack thereof) issues, coupled with them wanting to move her back, if they maintain that stance, I'd be out of there...

 

[Sasha]

I would not use either of those points as an argument for keeping her Level 4 and not moving her back to Level 3 because, to me, the issue is that she has her level 4 skills and should compete Level 4....and she's not "young" either to be competing level 4 ...at 8 yrs old she could be competing as an 8...

With all the communication (or lack thereof) issues, coupled with them wanting to move her back, if they maintain that stance, I'd be out of there...

I agree with @bookworm in that those points (her self-esteem, family convenience) would be unlikely to help your cause. If you are to discuss her placement, which one should be able to freely do with coaches (even if a special appointment is required), it should stay focused on her skills, work ethic, etc, that is required and expected in L4. Levels are earned, not given to help self-esteem, nor arranged for convenience to family. I think this message needs to stay intact through her gymnastics career.

That said, I do agree that, while other gyms (like ours) would likely not have moved her up to L4 in the first place with the prospect of only scoring 32s, spending the year training and competing L4 is probably (if you stay) going to serve her better than going back to L3 in the long run, simply because the skills in L4 are more to build on. Form will probably advance (or not) at the same rate whether she trains/competes L3 or L4, so no advantage in going back to L3. However, if the 'criteria' that coaches in your gym feel are required for L4 include a certain aptitude level for making corrections (and you daughter struggles to meet that), then they have every right to place her back in a lower level.

Regardless of her aptitude, if the coaches cannot, or will not, clearly explain to you 1) why they are not competing her, 2) what criteria need be met to compete L4, and 3) why they think moving to L3 would benefit HER, then you are not being served. This is really the issue.

It sounds like from just the snippets that you've shared that they are using the "move back to L3" as a scare tactic "last ditch resort" to get her to clean up her form, as they are increasingly frustrated repeating the same corrections with her, and believe she is not trying as hard as she can. They probably interpret this failure to apply corrections as some combination of lazy, unfocused, uncaring or unmotivated, and so are trying to light the fire.

But whatever the truth, the devil behind this all is the lack of communication, which I think everyone on this thread has agreed on. If you are unable to instigate some improvement in this area with the coaches, even slowly, you are in for very frustrating years ahead. I truly hope you find a solution that is the right environment for both your daughters to progress and continue joy of this sport!!