WAG Stopping/Controlling a Cast to Handstand

[vagymmomma]

DD has a pretty typical L7 bar routine - kip, squat-on, jump to high bar, kip, cast, free hip, giant, giant layout flyaway. In her coaching evaluation last night, they told her that she would be scoring in the 9s, but her biggest deductions are probably in her high bar cast (she's hitting HS with her free hip). She's casting to around 45 degrees, but her body is pretty archy and contorted. The funny thing is that in level 6 she was casting to HS on low and high bar. And she recently got her low bar pirouette, and her cast on that skill (and the HS after the turn) look great as well.

She told me last night that she's afraid of "over casting" and falling over the bar in her cast to handstand, so she's deliberately trying not to go too high (thus the crazy body position). I guess she feels she has too much power and has difficulty controlling it. I told her that I thought it was just a matter of practice doing the skill correctly and learning how to control it through repetition. However, it made me wonder, are there any tricks on how to help "stop" the cast at handstand? She's as strong as a horse, so maybe she could even muscle it some how. If it makes a difference, she does a straight body cast. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wallflower]

No advice for you, but DD is in the same boat. She is in level 6 and keeps accidently casting to handstand on the low and high bar. It's not a bad problem to have and I realize that, but she often falls over. I figure it's just a matter of practice and being tight. Her cast to 45 looks archy sometimes too.

 

[iwannacoach]

Numbers....lots and lots of numbers. She's right to be concerned about going over and I understand the body positions and logic she's using. Tell her if she starts now, trying to solve this problem with good casting techniques and handstand positions (I gotta believe the coaches have told her this and how to do it), she'll be in great shape by early to mid season.

When it comes time to compete the routine, she needs to compete it the way she trains it....no extra effort, nothing beyond what she's trained......The idea is to train with all the effort she'd want to use in competition. Sure, it'll tire her out a little more, and sooner at practice, but she'll be able to do a whole lot more alot sooner if she does. It's a case of getting a lot for a little....extra.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

First, she's gotta learn to overcast and fall safely. Bailing out of an overshot cast is basically the same as a level 4 beam dismount -- just a quarter or half pirouette off and drop to the feet. It's easy once they do it a few times, but if a gymnast doesn't know how to bail out of a handstand, of course they're never going to cast to handstand!

As far as stopping the cast in a handstand, it's a bit counterintuitive, but the opining the shoulders faster and extending to straight body faster as she hits the top will actually slow her down and stop her more easily.

 

[wallinbl]

First, she's gotta learn to overcast and fall safely. Bailing out of an overshot cast is basically the same as a level 4 beam dismount -- just a quarter or half pirouette off and drop to the feet.

Did you mean Level 5?

 

[sglemon]

Did you mean Level 5?

Both level 4 and 5 have the same dismount

 

[wallinbl]

Both level 4 and 5 have the same dismount

Just finally caught that he was referring to beam. I assumed he was referring to the drop from the bars at the end of the L5 bars routine.

 

[gymgal]

DD L7 is in a similar position. She is fine casting to HS on low bar for her free hip handstand but she is afraid to cast to HS on high bar because she feels out of control due to the height of the bar and fear of going over the bar from HS. She also fears going into a HS from her free hip (high bar) whenever she was connecting giants because she felt she was going to fast in the giants after. Coach just keeps telling her she will get it with time and repetition and I tend to agree because high reps have always helped her overcome the fears. She currently casts to 3/4 straight body (but casts to handstand with straddle when practicing that skill alone on the low bar), does free hip to anywhere from HS to 3/4 and keeps good form on both. so she will be fine for competition season, while she continues to work on the fear issue of getting to HS during connections.

I think this is a pretty common fear in L7's.

 

[vagymmomma]

Gymgal -- My DD initially had the same fear with the free hip into giants, but now she thinks its way easier on the high bar than low bar.

GT - Interesting observation on the straightening action resulting in a slow down. I'll mention that to her (she's pretty intuitive on bars and that may resonate).

iwanna - I hear you -- practice, practice, practice - the right way.

It feels strange to call it a fear because she's not afraid to do the skill --she's afraid of messing up doing the skill (and getting the deduction that comes with a fall). She sets very high expectations for herself on bars, and sometimes it seems to create anxiety where it shouldn't if she would just trust her own skills.

 

[gymgal]

Gymgal -- My DD initially had the same fear with the free hip into giants, but now she thinks its way easier on the high bar than low bar.
It feels strange to call it a fear because she's not afraid to do the skill --she's afraid of messing up doing the skill (and getting the deduction that comes with a fall). She sets very high expectations for herself on bars, and sometimes it seems to create anxiety where it shouldn't if she would just trust her own skills.

Dd has been doing the clear hip on high bar for a few months and agrees they are easier on high. She just doesn't like to connect it to a HS because then she feels she had too much power going into her giants. Her routine had everything on the high bar. They are just looking to get the casts and clear hips to HS before January. In dds case, the fear definitely comes from the embarrassment of falling off the high bar. But she has been doing complete high bar routines for a few weeks now and is gaining confidence.

 

[wordsmith]

If she doesn't do so already, and if her coaches aren't opposed to it, she might try having her thumbs around the bar after the glide, going into the cast handstand. If she hasn't tried it before, it's not going to feel comfortable at first; and it'll probably take her a few turns before she figures out the timing of when to move the thumbs (as well as move them back out of the way for the next skill).

Some gymnasts do this in their cast handstands; many do not.

But any time you need to balance a handstand on the rail, you have better tactile control and grip strength to maintain and adjust for balance.


And as Geoffrey indicates, if she swings the cast up fast and locks out the shoulders, she should be able to block from going over.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Learning to control a cast to handstand is quite similar to when they were beginner gymnasts and they learned to do a handstand on floor. They just needed to do lots of them to get used to the position, learn how to fall safely out of it and squeeze tight when they hit the position and push up to the ceiling.

She can build up the mats under the high bar to make it like a low bar and work it until she feels comfortable, then slowly reduce the number of mats, or if her coach is willing (and big enough) often by level 7 the kids are bigger than the coaches these days. Ask to be spotted for lots. If she has a bar over the pit this is an ideal place to practice lots.

 

[GymBeeMom]

My dd still casts over often, so I am not sure she has figured out how to control it all the time either. I assume it just practice, practice and more practice.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i suspect that her elbows are slightly bent after the kip and then in to the cast. elbows gotta be locked.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

My opinion: the best drill in the world for casts is swings on p-bars. There's a reason guys tend to learn this skill quickly and effortlessly and girls struggle with it, and it's not just strength. Every p-bar swing a guy does, he's practicing the precise balance and control it takes to do a controlled cast to handstand.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i agree ^^^. just remember to lower the bars a bit from the boys setting.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I also agree, swings to handstand on p bars are invaluable.