Swings, dislocates

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I have two questions about rings.

First: does anybody have any really good drills for teaching the proper pressure on the rings on the front swing? I have one guy who just can't seem to get the hang of it; his arms remain vertical for the whole swing; if he tries to swing higher, he just goes to inverted hang.

Second: what are some good drills for dislocates? I have several guys learning them with seemingly opposite problems. I have two with very flexible shoulders who do their dislocates without any lift whatsoever in the shoulders. These dislocates, as far as I can see, would suffice for level 6 and 7, but they'll need to get much more lift to develop into giants down the road, and to generate the power necessary for double backs.

My one other guy who is learning dislocates has relatively stiff shoulders, and has a different problem; he gets too much height and rotation on the dislocate. his dislocates finish high with the cables slack, so if he were to swing down without me there to slow his decent, he would very likely injure his shoulders and/or peel at the bottom of the swing.

 

[ryantroop]

That swing to inverted hang is actually pretty ideal. As his toes are rising, he needs to change his pull on the rings. If you know what an underswing on bars looks like, it's the same mechanic on rings. As the toes are in the upward swing, open the shoulder angle.

You need to be careful when doing this big of a swing. If the gymast arches, or stays totally straight and drops, they will either peel off through the bottom, or they will put a LOT of added stress on their shoulders which can lead to injury.

To properly get out of the front swing, a strong hollow needs to be held, and the gymnast needs to "roll" into the back swing.

You can see a good swing methodology here:
YouTube - Swing technique on rings


He needs some form work, but he gets a LOT of power through the swing. You will notice that on the way down from the front swing, he maintains a strong hollow with the rings above his head, and taps almost in front of the rings to drive for the back swing.


For dislocates, teach good back extension rolls to handstand. Emphasize the "pop" required to open up to a good handstand. That same pop is required for turning over a good dislocate, only at a 45* angle instead of straight up (until they get a more aggressive swing, in which case they want to feel like doing it to handstand). Unfortunately, I still use hand spotting past this point to teach the method. It's the best I have found. If your rings are near a wall, put up a poster of something fun for them to look at, and tell them to kick towards the poster. Otherwise, give them a visual as to what they should be driving their feet towards.

You CAN also use a track bar and do the giant snap drills... though this might be a bit too advanced for them at this point, assuming you have access to a tumble track with a bar...


Good luck and best wishes!!
Id like to hear how they progress and if this helps you. If you improve on anything, I would also love to hear it!

Take care,

Ryan

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

That swing to inverted hang is actually pretty ideal. As his toes are rising, he needs to change his pull on the rings. If you know what an underswing on bars looks like, it's the same mechanic on rings. As the toes are in the upward swing, open the shoulder angle.

I think you're misunderstanding me; when I say he swings to inverted hang, I mean inverted hang. He stops there. Like the third front swing in the level 4 routine. No lift whatsoever in the shoulders, no swing comming out. That push out is what I'm trying to accomplish, the concept just doesn't seem to be clicking with this kid.

For dislocates, teach good back extension rolls to handstand. Emphasize the "pop" required to open up to a good handstand. That same pop is required for turning over a good dislocate, only at a 45* angle instead of straight up (until they get a more aggressive swing, in which case they want to feel like doing it to handstand). Unfortunately, I still use hand spotting past this point to teach the method. It's the best I have found. If your rings are near a wall, put up a poster of something fun for them to look at, and tell them to kick towards the poster. Otherwise, give them a visual as to what they should be driving their feet towards.

You CAN also use a track bar and do the giant snap drills... though this might be a bit too advanced for them at this point, assuming you have access to a tumble track with a bar...


Good luck and best wishes!!
Id like to hear how they progress and if this helps you. If you improve on anything, I would also love to hear it!

Take care,

Ryan

THey already have decent back extension rolls, but they could use a bit more work. I'll focus on these and see if that helps their dislocates.

 

[BlairBob]

Gabe, that kid did develop some really good ring swing. Some form errors, he was a 7 training 9 at that time and finished his career at L10 being around 5'10 and moving on to other things come HS.

I had a L5 a few years ago and I think he was just lazy or ignoring me when I wanted to teach him to pull his arms and shoulders back in his front swing. He did good as a L5 in the 12 and over ( ez age group ) but I was thinking of developing his swing for L6.

I have kids hold rings or a theraband strap and work the ring motion as they do hollow rocks. I will also put them on low rings and hand spot them to teach the pull and open-turnout.

YouTube - Body Levers - A Simultaneous Abdominal & Lower Back Workout

Ever work body levers? I work them with the kids with their hands holding the base of the beam preferably by holding the the small rails that are sort of triangular. Very similar to the turnout. They start by holding their body in a candle vertical and lower to horizontal. Eventually I will either spot them through this but eventually they need to be able to do the lifts or lower down themselves.

I like these because it teaches them they can get their body above horizontal while still keeping their heads inside their arms. It's really hard to do without any ring pull on the front swing to get the hips as high as the shoulders.

 

[ryantroop]

I dont know if you tried already... but has he seen what the swing is supposed to look like?

Maybe it's a visualization thing, and he cant quite figure out what he's supposed to do without seeing it to translate into physical concept.


It sounds more like he's a little scared of doing something different than what has worked, and isnt comfortable with moving on yet for whatever reason.

Then again.. it certainly could be lazyness... you know the kid better than we do.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I have kids hold rings or a theraband strap and work the ring motion as they do hollow rocks.

Ooh, I like that. I'll have him try that.

YouTube - Body Levers - A Simultaneous Abdominal & Lower Back Workout

Ever work body levers? I work them with the kids with their hands holding the base of the beam preferably by holding the the small rails that are sort of triangular. Very similar to the turnout. They start by holding their body in a candle vertical and lower to horizontal. Eventually I will either spot them through this but eventually they need to be able to do the lifts or lower down themselves.

I like these because it teaches them they can get their body above horizontal while still keeping their heads inside their arms. It's really hard to do without any ring pull on the front swing to get the hips as high as the shoulders.

I'll try this.

I don't think it's laziness -- he's generally a pretty hard worker. And I think he understands it visually -- I've showed him the swing myself on several occasions. The visual understanding just doesn't seem to be translating into a physical understanding.

 

[BlairBob]

Sometimes kids just don't know how to get their toes high in their swing. Some will break the shoulder angle much as if they were going to inverted hang in the L4 routine. They just don't get how they can get their body higher without breaking that shoulder angle. I noticed this with one of the boys on HB the other day.

It doesn't click that they have to pull back on the rings or push the rings to get beyond horizontal.

 

[Valentin]

Boy closing shoulder problem....

I am going to assume that he is pretty small which makes this drill doable.
Get some spotting blocks (high end up) put them on either side of the rings. So that when you stand on them the rings are infront of you and the gymnast hanging on them underneath you. Grab him hands and YOU start moving the rings backward and forward. Pretty much you are doing everything (at the start). I use this drill with new boys to teach them that they need to push and pull not just kick the feet.
It works well, because you can also time the tap for them, plus they really like it.
Once the boys understand the they move the rings i start to do lots of hand spotting. Catch him at the front, tell him to pull the rings etc.. catch at the back shape etc..
Also he also maybe requires A LOT of Strength strength strength.. Drills like that Blair suggested with the rocking and holding therabands, anything requiring shoulder flexion, beatswings on the swings, but with the arm doing the motion all help.

Inflexible kid....
Start cracking down on the flexibility.. Lots of wide arm shoulder flexion stretches, plus pectoralis stretching (like laying on the ground face down, arms in 45 abduction above the head.. Up press between his shoulders down with knee or sit lightly, and with your arms pull his arms up and back (simulating that rings position).
hands on head fingers interlocked.. pulling elbows together.. streches like these+ inlocate dislocates with stick (which you probably already do, but clearly this boy needs a good load more.. introduce a flexibility station for him during rings, and separate days, and at warmdown).

Until the shoulders improve you will struggle to get much difference. One thing you can try to do is to encourage him on a dislocate to circle the rings around to the front faster, and sooner.