Women Technical questions

[stargazer]

I have two things I'm curious about in terms of scoring:
1. In men's gymnastics they often land with their chests very low and do multiple arm circles to ensure a stuck landing, but do they get the same deductions as the women for the low chest and arm circles? It seems like a 0.1 hop would incur fewer deductions than if their chest that is practically touching their knees but maybe not? I rarely see this in women's gymnastics so now I'm curious!

2. At around 31:50 of this video of the 2013 american cup (2013.American.Cup.720p.HDTV.x264.NastiaFan101 - YouTube) they describe the new code of points on beam. How on earth are people supposed to connect skills without an arm swing? A lot of skills need an arm swing, like back handsprings. Considering they are trying to increase artistry overall, this doesn't seem like the way to go but perhaps that's just me...

I know these seem like pretty trivial questions but what better place to ask than at the chalkbucket, where you all have far knowledge of these things than I do!

 

[iwannacoach]

I'm not sure, but I think an arm swing to begin a skill at the start of a series of jumps, leaps, or tumbling will still be okay, while swinging your arms between elements will not. The judges are probably tired of watching arm swings between elements being done slowly enough to be a balance check, or a mental rallying point.

Personally? I like the new rules because they'll reward those who really do connect, and motivate the rest to "get it right" if they're able. So no big deal, as everyone will be leaping out of the frying pan into the same fire. Really, when you think about it, what purpose does it serve to swing your arms. I'll grant you that it adds some height to a jump, but think of it this way......

How high can you go using only your arms to execute a jump, and how high can you go using only your legs. I think the legs win hands down as you probably can't get more than 1cm into the air using your arms alone. On top of that, so much about staying on beam relies on how you start the skill with your legs, and eliminating the arms as a variable isn't such a bad thing.

Bottom line..... deal with it. It's fair to all, and just may help bring out the "inner beam" in all of us.

 

[stargazer]

I definitely see your point, it just seems unnatural to me to take out the arm swing between certain skills. It makes sense for some, just not others in my mind. So for this routine for example, would either her switch leap back tuck or the split jump wolf jump count? I'm guessing yes for the first and no for the second. Alex McMurtry - Balance Beam - 2013 Nastia Liukin Cup - YouTube

Anyone else want to chime in on this, as well as the men's landings?

 

[iwannacoach]

If I was coaching her with two weeks left until the competition, I'd concentrate on the jump series. I think she could land with her hands low enough after the split jump that she could elevate her arms to whatever position she'd like as she moves into the second jump, and receive the connection value. If I understood Tim and Nastia, the issue isn't swinging your arms up into the skill, but rather swinging your arms into a reversing motion after arriving on the beam that blows
the credit.

I see a position in the video where her hands are at hip level between the two jumps, but instead of gathering a bit more plie' or meeting the beam with more resistance to slow the plie' and transition into the next jump, she throws her arms backwards to a point above shoulder height. You could say, in a sense, she's using her arms as a substitute for a well balanced plie' within a correctly tensioned body.

If she came to the beam with better tension and control, pressed her shoulders into the plie', the jump would easily be done from her legs pushing her back up. On top of that, in my mind, gymnastics is most easily done when we stay as close as possible to shapes our our bodies are used to. Since none of us voluntarily spend time with our arms behind us at a 90 degree angle to our torso, I gotta believe it just isn't "all that, and the motion could be simplified to make it easier. Or so it would seem to me.

As far as the switch to back tuck....... She could apply "all of the above" plus incorporate a gentle forward lean as she's slowing her plie' while leaving her hands at hip (sorta) level, because as long as they don't move from the position they are in upon first touching her feet on the landing, they aren't swinging.... at least not in the context Tim and Nastia said was taboo. That would take some work to change her leg timing and the speed of her legs recovering from the second (supposedly) split, and to get rid of the high shoulder lift seen as she lifts into the air.... rather than pushing from her foot with more energy.

So yeah, I think we'll see this combination in the 2016 games, and she'll possibly be there to do one too. One thing I'll say with absolute certainty........ While there's a chance she'll be there, I won't, and I most certainly won't ever do any of the skills she does with ease. So sign me up for the fan club, and keep an eye on her to see how she handles those two combinations.


And please, somebody else "weigh in" on this, because I may not necessarily be right, but rather unnecessarily wordy.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Here is another example of arm swing to cover/slow connections - several examples, especially the switch leap cover.
Catalina Ponor - Balance Beam - 2012 European Championships - Event Finals.ts - YouTube
If I could tolerate watching more butt check, I bet I could work out that some of the 'connections' above get a gymnast more points than a layout full.

Basically gymnasts need to finish the first skill with arms in position to do the next skill.

 

[stargazer]

If I understood Tim and Nastia, the issue isn't swinging your arms up into the skill, but rather swinging your arms into a reversing motion after arriving on the beam that blows
the credit.

Basically gymnasts need to finish the first skill with arms in position to do the next skill.

Thank you, this is making much more sense now. Does anyone have a video of a connection done PROPERLY under the new code?

And does anyone know if men are deducted differently on their landings than the women, and that would prompt them to land so low to try to stick their landing?

 

[wandrewsjr]

Look how Ross connects her front aerial to her sheep jump - lands with arms back in the position to start the jump rather than having to swing them back:

Kyla Ross - Balance Beam - 2013 AT&T American Cup Podium Training - YouTube

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Does anyone know if this arm swing rule will apply to the jump series in compulsory level gymnastics? Like on beam and floor?

 

[gymgal]

Here is another example of arm swing to cover/slow connections - several examples, especially the switch leap cover.
Catalina Ponor - Balance Beam - 2012 European Championships - Event Finals.ts - YouTube
If I could tolerate watching more butt check, I bet I could work out that some of the 'connections' above get a gymnast more points than a layout full.

Basically gymnasts need to finish the first skill with arms in position to do the next skill.

thank you. I was having a hard time visualizing when this would apply and this video made it obvious.

 

[stargazer]

I'm sure someone must know about the men's landings, anyone?? It just seems so strange to me that they put so much effort into making sure their feet don't move when in women's gymnastics the low chest and arm circles could probably give over 0.5 in deductions, so I figured the scoring must be different but perhaps that's not the case.